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InvisibleMr Piggy
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: abductee] * 1
    #24371063 - 06/02/17 01:51 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Just stopped in and noticed the MOD patch Bod, congrats!

RIP your inbox :lol:


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Invisiblestareatclouds
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: abductee] * 1
    #24371134 - 06/02/17 02:15 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

abductee said:
You said you were afraid of getting genetics that dont fruit from a plate with many sectors/ genetics.  If you try and fruit each sectors you take and label them ad example: a, b, or.c. You will see wich " isolate" fruits.




I am not trying to get an isolate from this theoretical scenario. I am trying to keep a clone intact and expand it WITHOUT isolating any further.

Quote:

I  believe clones often produce fruits.




A clone will always produce fruits unless something external fucks it up. You're literally isolating proven genetics by taking a clone.


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: stareatclouds]
    #24371193 - 06/02/17 02:29 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

search anastomosis and cloning etc stare, I've seen that question asked a bunch myself but never any clear answer,
long story short anastomosis can make the different sectors exchange info so it doesnt matter if you isolate away certain sectors.
then again there's no other way to know whether it took place or not than growing out a culture and see what grows (or doesnt grow)


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Invisibleabductee
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: stareatclouds]
    #24371448 - 06/02/17 03:53 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Oh I see what your saying.


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OfflineChefButtes
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: abductee]
    #24372190 - 06/02/17 08:11 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

My first cake is ready to dunk today, it had a pretty good lil shroom going up near the verm layer, but when I went to rinse and dunk, it popped off and it seemed like it had fruited right on the edge of it's colonized area, and where the dry verm started.

I just ate it and I doubt it'll do anything, but damn are they tasty, I really don't get how people say cubes don't taste good, I even like them dry.


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Offlinedhype773
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: ChefButtes]
    #24372207 - 06/02/17 08:15 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

ChefButtes said:
My first cake is ready to dunk today, it had a pretty good lil shroom going up near the verm layer, but when I went to rinse and dunk, it popped off and it seemed like it had fruited right on the edge of it's colonized area, and where the dry verm started.

I just ate it and I doubt it'll do anything, but damn are they tasty, I really don't get how people say cubes don't taste good, I even like them dry.



I like wet shrooms, I even like the tea. I literally chew them without even a thought as to their taste


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OfflineKenetic
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: dhype773]
    #24372378 - 06/02/17 09:37 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Yur nasty


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OfflineChefButtes
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Kenetic]
    #24372589 - 06/02/17 11:33 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Sorry man, they just taste like the mushrooms you get in the store to me.


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OfflineSloppyJoseph
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: ChefButtes]
    #24372604 - 06/02/17 11:43 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

I like them dry but fresh they are a little strong for me. They are a completely different taste than say, raw button mushrooms. I can see how someone wouldn't mind it but personally I'm not gonna go chomping on a fresh 40 grams again. tried that a few times and was a bad time.

First time I ate fresh I mixed 20 grams in scrambled eggs and seared that shit to cook the eggs but not the shrooms. Lots of butter and some ketchup and it was a pretty delicious omelette. Was one of the best trips I ever had too.


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InvisibleliloldmeFacebook
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: SloppyJoseph]
    #24372863 - 06/03/17 04:25 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

I like my cubes dry in a tea form but I enjoy my stuntzii fresh out of the lawn :datass:


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OfflineCrispykoot
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bodhisatta] * 1
    #24373001 - 06/03/17 07:05 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
If you want your cultivation knowledge to come from out of context research that's clearly over your head go for it lol



Not even close to clearly over my head Bod. Maybe stop being insulting and look at how Trich reacts to various treatments, how it spreads etc...All those researchers must be wrong? Hardly.

Some of you are stuck on the dogma...It all comes from spawn?...Simply not true and the research completely supports this.


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OfflineCrispykoot
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Crispykoot] * 1
    #24373010 - 06/03/17 07:11 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Also Bod...I grow a LOT more than you do per month/year and with good yields and acceptable levels of contamination..Aaand edibles...I must be dumb though..I do understand that the reductionist approach to understanding Trich is not going to work beyond a hobby level.


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OfflineCrispykoot
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Crispykoot]
    #24373020 - 06/03/17 07:19 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Results and Discussion

It is well known that substrate is one of the most important contamination sources for green mold disease, especially if it has a high level of carbohydrates (Fletcher et al., 1986). Different species of Trichoderma can contaminate the substrates; this may be due to the use of different substrates, the origin, and manufacturers (Komon-Zelazowska et al., 2007). Contamination is the result of the inoculum potential plus the ability to rapidly grow in the substrate. The treatments of the substrates are generally used to affect the inoculum potential with the objective of eliminating all the spores of Trichoderma spp present in the substrate, but they do not deal with the colonization ability if a new inoculum is introduced after heat treatment. Arrival of inoculum during spawning is frequent, and in a substrate without competitors, this inoculum may develop rapidly. It is very common for South American mushroom growers to spawn substrate with their hand, without any mechanized help and in absence of care to avoid contamination. Thus, many of the contaminations that bags suffer with Trichoderma sp could occur during spawn phase. To learn more about the conditions that promote Trichoderma sp growth on lignocellulose substrates during spawning phase we designed a number of experiments in which substrates were treated with different methods commonly used to eliminate contaminations and then were inoculated with Trichoderma sp previous to the inoculation with the mushroom spawn. To standardize the experiment, we firstly designed a method to inoculate the substrates with a spray of a suspension of conidia of Trichoderma sp. We used two mushroom species: P. ostreatus, widely worldwide cultivated (Lechner and Albertó, 2011) and Gymnopilus pampeanus a species which, at present, is being studied for mushroom production (Colavolpe and Albertó, 2012, 2014). The latter can easily grow on sawdust of Populus and Eucalyptus but not on wheat straw. In our first experiment, results showed that sterilized substrates favor Trichoderma sp growth (+). This result is in agreement with previous works (Velázquez-Cedeño et al., 2004; Velázquez-Cedeño et al., 2006). It is really interesting to observe that T treatment on NS did not produce the growth of Trichoderma sp although it had a high concentration of conidia. It is supposed that S treatment due to high temperature and the cooking effect, released nutrients that benefited the green mold. It is also considered that the reduction of the natural microbial flora of the substrate by the sterilization action increases Trichoderma sp opportunities to colonize the substrate because of a lower presence of competitive micro flora which reduces the possibility of mycelial growth. Bacterial strains can inhibit the growth of Trichoderma sp by production of volatile organic compounds (Mackie and Whetley, 1999) or by releasing antibiotics (Nielsen et al., 2000). Species of bacteria belonging to genus Pseudomonas have been identified as antagonists of Trichoderma sp (Upadhyay et al., 1991; Ellis et al., 2000). Velázquez-Cedeño et al. (2004) proved that the capacity of T. longibrachiatum to compete with P. ostreatus in dual cultures decreased in the presence of other micro-organisms in the substrates. The presence of total microflora increased the production of phenoloxidases by P. ostreatus despite a less abundant colonization of the substrate. The production of laccases has already been described as a response to environmental stress (Rayner et al., 1994; Score et al., 1997; Savoie et al., 2001). Velázquez-Cedeño et al. (2007) proved that Bacillus spp. and specifically Paenibacillus polymyxa from cultivation substrates are implicated in their selectivity by both inhibiting the growth of T. harzianum and stimulating defenses' of the mushroom P. ostreatus through the induction of laccases.


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OfflineCrispykoot
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Crispykoot]
    #24373035 - 06/03/17 07:32 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Maybe Bodhi can lay out the the pathway of contamination for us with Trich in grain spawn...I'm curious and have a lot of questions...

At what point does the Trich infect my culture, and how does this progress to spawning phase.?

I start on agar, I use both spores and tissue culture...

Where are the vectors in the sterile work?


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Crispykoot]
    #24373086 - 06/03/17 08:08 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

i dont think anyone says its one thousand percent in the spawn unless you are judging the masses of people
who present the same circumstances and just through simple probability that the trich came from peoples dirty spawn.

maybe more of a blanket statement than a 'incontrovertible truth'. it seems like you are picking a fight bro because your link was not received with 'wow you are awesome'. if not, who cares? :shrug:

i read the link. learned a few things but nothing i can really apply to what im doing. or 90% of us.

Quote:

In our first experiment, results showed that sterilized substrates favor Trichoderma sp growth




i exclusively use sterilized substrates and havent seen trich in months and months. and when i did it was from dirty spawn.


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Invisiblejkz
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy]
    #24373107 - 06/03/17 08:17 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

What does everyone do with their agar plates that have spores germinated on them after you take transfers?


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OfflineLobi
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Crispykoot]
    #24373108 - 06/03/17 08:18 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Crispykoot said:
Also Bod...I grow a LOT more than you do per month/year and with good yields and acceptable levels of contamination..Aaand edibles...I must be dumb though..I do understand that the reductionist approach to understanding Trich is not going to work beyond a hobby level.




:teareally:


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Offlinedhype773
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: jkz]
    #24373109 - 06/03/17 08:19 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

I have mine wrapped in plastic wrap and in the fridge until I use them.


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy] * 1
    #24373110 - 06/03/17 08:19 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

That's because coir and straw aren't the same thing. Straw/poo can't be used as a casing. Leave those uninoculated in a bucket in a shed. They go moldy quick. Coir on the other hand doesn't. Coir is very unique, and the only studies that apply to it, are studies done on coir :/.

Also I don't think anyone has said you get trich in your spawn. Just that your myc is weakened enough for trich to germinate on it post spawning phase, which means your spawn was weakened somehow (99% of the time bacteria weakened it). That is what lets trich germinate on some bulk subs, but not others in the same fruiting conditions.


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Invisiblejkz
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: dhype773]
    #24373113 - 06/03/17 08:20 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

dhype773 said:
I have mine wrapped in plastic wrap and in the fridge until I use them.




You'll reuse them? I've taken a bunch of 1st transfers and plan on taking second and even third transfers before saving a culture. Don't see any need to keep the Spores that have germinated at this point.


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