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InvisibleTheMadHatter420
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: PinPornProducer]
    #24279715 - 04/28/17 07:54 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

I don't even trust the ones that I think are from me dropping an agar wedge and then moving it into place.


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: PinPornProducer]
    #24279716 - 04/28/17 07:54 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

:whathesaid:

satellite colony


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InvisibleTheMadHatter420
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy]
    #24279743 - 04/28/17 08:04 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

When the fuck did the "getting started" forum become the identification forum. It is starting to get bad in that noob forum.


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OfflineHuskies
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: TheMadHatter420]
    #24281616 - 04/29/17 01:52 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

When people say to lower the nutrients in your agar, assuming I am using the regular pasty plate recipe, what am I lowering? potato flakes or honey?


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InvisibleJosex
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Huskies]
    #24281621 - 04/29/17 01:55 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Both. That's why I don't use honey, you can't weigh it out like you can do with SITR or dextrose.


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Invisiblec10h12n2o
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Huskies]
    #24281626 - 04/29/17 01:57 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

i use half strength MEA for almost everything. its dead simple, and its the standard mycology agar

recipe i use:

1L h2o
20g agar
15g light malt extract (from brew supply store)
food coloring

the lower nutrient content makes the myc spread out and look for food rather than just staying put and grubbing out


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C10's Agar Guide + Tips and Tricks | c10's Flow Hood Build Guide


"Partial knowledge is more triumphant than complete knowledge; it takes things to be simpler than they are, and so makes its theory more popular and convincing."

"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies"
― Friedrich Nietzsche


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InvisibleJosex
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #24281634 - 04/29/17 01:59 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Standard? We all should be using a variety of recipies, and swap them now and then, not just one, especially good for cultures that have been kicking for too long.


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Invisiblec10h12n2o
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Josex]
    #24281776 - 04/29/17 02:58 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

i say "standard" because that is the word i have heard used in countless lab manuals and papers on mycology techniques, MEA is ubiquitous in working with basidiomycetes, and is the standard used in most studies on common molds, yeasts, and mushrooms

of course other stuff works fine, but if you walk into a lab supply store and tell them you want some agar for working with fungi, they will point you straight to the MEA, or they will look to a chart in a manual, look at fungi, and then point you to MEA.  because it is "standard" for this type of work.

as far as the need for switching recipes:

in theory, yes. but the need for this is waaaaaay exaggerated, since senescence or a culture deciding it doesnt like a particular kind of agar anymore are both highly unlikely to be experienced by the common cultivator.

senescence and media stagnation are true in principle, but they are total non-issues for the common cultivator. these are things you would need to worry about if you were expanding out cultures thousands of plates, or running a commercial lab or something, but not something that will be an issue  in the lifetime of most cultivators (since most people dont work with the same culture for 30 years, etc)

so it really depends on the time frame you are dealing with. most people just want to get a clean culture, then expand it , work with it, and store it. for these purposes, and even advanced projects like isolation, long term storage, MEA is totally sufficient.

i OCCASIONALLY add peptone and yeast extract, for the exact reasons you mentioned, but have found them to cause more problems than good, and found that the same cultures looked WAY better on standard MEA.

its important to remember what we are doing with agar and select your recipe to suit your application. i use MEA+gent+cloramph. occasionally , and full strength MEA for long term storage (2x as much ME). the point isnt to have the most nutritious, or most creative, agar recipe, the point is to have 2D growth growing out at a controlled rate on a slightly nutritious gel, so that we can distinguish characteristics of strains and strain groups. this is why we use half strength and no additives for most projects, since it encourages the myc to spread out, whereas a more nutritious agar would encourage the culture to vegetate

also, when you are doing  a selective culture, in principle you want to use as selective a media and incubation technique as possible. for instance, you want an agar with nutrients and conditions which are dialed in for what you want to grow, but not for what you dont want to grow. one of the main reasons MEA is so ideal for working with fungi, because its nutrients are so easy for most fungi to absorb, and not ideal for many other things (such as fecal bacteria for instance, or extremophillic bacteria that requires crazy high salt content). by knowing the basic characteristics of the organisms we are trying to culture, and those of the potential contaminants, a microbiologist is able to recommend a particular agar recipe which will encourage and allow the growth of the target organism while avoiding unnecessary nutrients which could foster unwanted organisms. the same applies to the incubation temperature and conditions. we are able to leverage media type and conditions to be relatively selective by themselves 

for basidiomycetes, especially the ones we work with, this happy place is MEA (though PDA or any other standard recipe is fine)

since the span of time from spores to storage involves so little expansion and so little time (big picture), there really is not any need to switch up your media recipe or use anything any more nutritious than necessary

also, using a standardized agar recipe and prep makes it much easier to compare various qualities of different cultures, since you dont have to worry about attributing differences to a difference in agar recipe. if you use various recipes, you cant really compare too much, since you have no way of knowing if this GT culture on MEA is more vigorous than the B+ culture on DFA, or if the difference was due to the different agar recipe

fewer variables makes it easier to compare and debug. it makes your data a lot more meaningful, and allows you to draw more meaningful conclusions

PS: how much does a wheel of campo de montalban cheese cost in spain? i LOVE spanish cheeses so much, ive probably eaten 7 wheels of that one in the last year hahaah


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C10's Agar Guide + Tips and Tricks | c10's Flow Hood Build Guide


"Partial knowledge is more triumphant than complete knowledge; it takes things to be simpler than they are, and so makes its theory more popular and convincing."

"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies"
― Friedrich Nietzsche


Edited by c10h12n2o (04/29/17 03:00 PM)


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InvisibleMunchauzen
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Josex]
    #24281827 - 04/29/17 03:21 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Josex said:
Both. That's why I don't use honey, you can't weigh it out like you can do with SITR or dextrose.



what do you mean? you can weigh honey. I do it every time I make agar. my 1-2-3 agar tek in my sig even lists using 1 gram of honey.


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InvisibleJosex
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Munchauzen]
    #24281858 - 04/29/17 03:36 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Yes but that's messy, honey is all sticky and gooey. I prefer to use powdered stuff.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Josex] * 1
    #24281884 - 04/29/17 03:43 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

:confused:
I don't see how weighting honey out could be a hassle


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InvisibleJust_A_Noob
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24281896 - 04/29/17 03:46 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

If its cold you might have to weight a long time for it to pour :shrug::rofl::bow2:


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InvisibleJosex
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Josex]
    #24281897 - 04/29/17 03:46 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

C10, I wasn't thinking about senescence, I should have been more specific. It's been common knowledge that changing media can help keep a culture vigorous and strong, they have to adjust their enzimes to digest the new media.

Good and informative post btw :super:


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InvisibleJosex
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Just_A_Noob]
    #24281904 - 04/29/17 03:53 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Just_A_Noob said:
If its cold you might have to weight a long time for it to pour :shrug::rofl::bow2:



This. Ain't nobody got time for that :shrug:. Let's say you weigh out 1 gram, when you pour it a lot of the honey will stick to the container you pour from, so you're pouring less than a gram. Or maybe you could use hot water in that container to dissolve the honey, which is a little bit more of a hassle than just weighing out dextrose or sugar in the raw.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Josex]
    #24281909 - 04/29/17 03:55 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

tare the container the honey is going into, pour the honey into the jar directly


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InvisibleJosex
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24281925 - 04/29/17 04:02 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

You mean the jar or measuring cup with the water in it already? I'm missing something here lol. If the jar doesn't have water you're gonna have the same problem, no? Anyway, I can't tare the 1 litre measuring jar I use for agar because my scale is tiny.


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InvisibleBoogieman47
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Josex]
    #24281945 - 04/29/17 04:14 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

It would be eaiser to tare the quart jar


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Offlinetombosley8
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Boogieman47]
    #24281977 - 04/29/17 04:29 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

that's what bod was saying.

Just weigh the honey in the jar that you use to pour agar. Then add other ingredients(agar water, etc) and pc as normal. walaa


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InvisibleJosex
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Boogieman47]
    #24281998 - 04/29/17 04:37 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

I use a cheap but little scale for things like agar and dosing, which can weigh things with a 0,01g accuracy, 200g max. And then another big (and again, cheap) scale for harvests, which is not accurate.

Whatcha guys use? You should show it off. :awetongue:


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InvisibleJosex
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Josex]
    #24282003 - 04/29/17 04:39 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Some of us use no pours  :shamecube:


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