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Thedillestpickle
cultured



Registered: 02/02/16
Posts: 1,170
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Mad Season]
#24231436 - 04/09/17 10:55 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mad Season said: Aren't they decomposers rather than primary producers? ie they make inorganic minerals out of organic substances. That means they make more minerals out of almost nothing for the other primary producers, so they really shouldn't need much in the way of nutrients/minerals.. All they need is biomass high in cellulose.
Yea the food source ought to have the minerals they need I would think. But then there is RR for example always saying how gypsum is important because the sulfur and calcium.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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I personally never saw the benefits RR claimed gypsum would provide.
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Pastywhyte]
#24231447 - 04/09/17 11:00 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: I personally never saw the benefits RR claimed gypsum would provide.
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Thedillestpickle
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Pastywhyte]
#24231453 - 04/09/17 11:03 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yea I'm thinking it's time to test this out myself and go off the gypsum. I've always rationalized it as a pH buffer, rather than a nutrient. I've got the idea that if I leave out the gypsum my subs will more easily become acidic, which will favour bacteria, and then contaminants will hit sooner.
I also don't really know what verm is supposed to do... coir is airy enough on it's own.
I think it's time to try straight coir substrate
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Gypsum isn't a pH buffer. I believe its actually acidic. Gypsum is a pH stabilizer. Prevents big swings.
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Thedillestpickle
cultured



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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Pastywhyte]
#24231456 - 04/09/17 11:08 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Gypsum isn't a pH buffer. I believe its actually acidic. Gypsum is a pH stabilizer. Prevents big swings.
I think you just described a pH buffer
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Thedillestpickle
cultured



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it's not acidic I tested it a while back and I think it came out around 8
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Pastywhyte]
#24231461 - 04/09/17 11:12 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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a pH buffer is a weak acid/base with its conjugate pair at concentrations within 0.1-10x of each other. Just having gypsum, a rock with a single composition, and with absolutely no hydrogen or hydroxyl atoms to make it either acidic or basic is not really going to do much for pH tbh.
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Thedillestpickle
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So what about adding EWC? I have a trial tub going using about 1/6 EWC in the substrate mix. I know that technically it's a chance at contamination because i just bucket tek'd it with the coir and I don't have a fancy gadget to measure the internal temp of the bucket. It colonized fine. So should I expect increase in yield with something like that or am i just wasting a bunch of money on EWC?
seems to me hpoo/straw does make an improvement in yield and you get bigger fruits, but I'm 100% no willing to start working with hpoo, so I was hoping this could be a compromise that would still be an improvement over just coir.
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Thedillestpickle
cultured



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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Mad Season]
#24231467 - 04/09/17 11:18 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mad Season said: a pH buffer is a weak acid/base with its conjugate pair at concentrations within 0.1-10x of each other. Just having gypsum, a rock with a single composition, and with absolutely no hydrogen or hydroxyl atoms to make it either acidic or basic is not really going to do much for pH tbh.
Good argument, I figured if it "prevented pH swings", that it must be buffering the pH. Either way if it prevent pH swings it should prevent acidic conditions from happening and therefore reduce contamination rates. That's just me repeating something I think I read around here that seemed to make sense to me, but I don't know for sure that subs actually become acidic over time, I'd have to do some straight coir grows and periodically test the pH over time to see if that is even an issue.
At any rate the solution is knowing how to create clean spawn.
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
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Well I've never tested pH tbh, hasn't really ever been a concern for me. Gypsum is kinda whatever for me now too. Sometimes I toss it in, sometimes I don't. Besides cubes prefer acidic conditions too, just like all other molds tbh. Also, gypsum is a sulfate and a hydrate, which means it should just dissolve away and have free floating ions, neither of which will cause different pathways for hydronium or hydroxyl ions. I guess I just don't see the chemistry behind this claimed pH swing reduction. If you do decide to test the pH, let me know how it goes 
Bod does pure coir in all his tubs and they come out great. I'd honestly bet that has much more "nutrients" due to the fact it's like all organic matter with cellulose and holds lots of water, rather than verm, which is a silicate mineral..
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Thedillestpickle
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Mad Season] 1
#24231489 - 04/09/17 11:46 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yea I agree, it probably isn't buffering or preventing pH changes as much as I thought, it was just what I remember reading before.
I'm going to start some trials using pure coir, well cooked using a cooler like Bod.
That means I'm going to have a giant bag of verm that I have no use for... but I just decided I'm going to do a trial using pure verm as well... just to keep things interesting, and also so that I have a way to get rid of all the verm I won't be needing. Will spawn the pure verm and pure coir tubs at the same time and report back with results
Edited by Thedillestpickle (04/09/17 11:47 PM)
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
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Loc: Canada
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Also one thing while we're on the topic.. Everyone knows fungi and plants form a mutual relationship. Mushrooms can feed on the organic matter/carbon given by the plant roots, while at the same time providing the plant with both water and inorganic minerals made by the organic matter that the fungi fed on. Under this scenario, fungi aren't the ones utilizing the minerals, they're the ones producing them, and they actually seem to not mind at all sharing the minerals for some extra organic matter. Really does seem like having extra minerals doesn't mean much to the organism.
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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
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Quote:
Mad Season said: Aren't they decomposers rather than primary producers? ie they make inorganic minerals out of organic substances. That means they make more minerals out of almost nothing for the other primary producers, so they really shouldn't need much in the way of nutrients/minerals.. All they need is biomass high in cellulose.
Primary producers are plants and plants are what convert inorganic material found in dirt and water into organic material that can be used by species higher on the food chain.
You are right about decomposers breaking down organic matter, but that organic matter soon turns to inorganic matter as it is oxidized by the air around it. And seeing as oxides are by definition inorganic, the majority of the earth is actually inorganic. It is the primary producers that take the inorganic minerals and reconvert them into organic minerals that are able to be used by higher organisms.
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,281
Loc: where?
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: natedawgnow]
#24232100 - 04/10/17 10:03 AM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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far out.
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Huskies
Boop More Snoots



Registered: 03/22/16
Posts: 1,048
Last seen: 1 day, 5 hours
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy]
#24232229 - 04/10/17 11:04 AM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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My dehydrator broke so I tried oven drying them for the first time. I did it at 170 mostly but towards the end went up to 200. While it worked and they are beyond cracker dry, they also got a bit crispy, and after trying them last night their potency seemed to be quite low (it was a 3rd flush on an old tub with big open shrooms, so that could be it too.)
Anyhow, I don't really want to waste my precious trip time trying to make these worth it when I have so much more good stuff. What are some fun things I can do with crispy shrooms? I was thinking about doing some alcohol infusions. I have at least 3oz.
-------------------- I call them Huskies cause you tell them to go "Mush! Mush""
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,281
Loc: where?
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Huskies]
#24232239 - 04/10/17 11:07 AM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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id say make shroom tea. it can be easily made. frozen and it last for a long time.
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Huskies
Boop More Snoots



Registered: 03/22/16
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy]
#24232248 - 04/10/17 11:10 AM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yeah, I normally only make tea with fresh ones, and once the blue has dissapeared it's pretty much ready. How long should I seep these guys for? And how would I defrost the tea, leaving it out overnight?
-------------------- I call them Huskies cause you tell them to go "Mush! Mush""
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Neomorph


Registered: 12/10/14
Posts: 767
Loc: Europe
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Huskies]
#24232260 - 04/10/17 11:17 AM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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TheMadHatter420
Trusted Farmer


Registered: 10/12/16
Posts: 12,941
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Neomorph]
#24232288 - 04/10/17 11:40 AM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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No.
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