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RoscoeReturns
Crotchety chode man



Registered: 02/12/18
Posts: 1,738
Loc: State of Confusion
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: drVetker] 1
#28400028 - 07/18/23 06:16 PM (6 months, 9 days ago) |
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Quote:
drVetker said: PF Tek BRF cake question
Hi everyone, generally the suggestion is not to go spore to grain but clean it up on agar and then send it. Now, with PF Tek we go spore to "substrate i guess" and are not worried about contamination. Why? Why does a brf + verm cake specifically lend itself to this approach of inoculating with multispore and fruiting? I mean, what is it about the substrate here that doesn't make it necessary to have clean culture to inoculate with?
Plus, does anyone ever use clean agar to inoculate a BRF cake and do PF Tek? or is that pointless and would bring nothing?
Bacteria can’t move through BRF the way it can move over grain, and you don’t break up BRF and spread the contam around.
You can use agar to BRF cakes, just use filtered lids and leave out the dry verm layer.
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drVetker
Stranger

Registered: 10/25/22
Posts: 215
Last seen: 2 months, 21 days
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Quote:
RoscoeReturns said:
Quote:
drVetker said: PF Tek BRF cake question
Hi everyone, generally the suggestion is not to go spore to grain but clean it up on agar and then send it. Now, with PF Tek we go spore to "substrate i guess" and are not worried about contamination. Why? Why does a brf + verm cake specifically lend itself to this approach of inoculating with multispore and fruiting? I mean, what is it about the substrate here that doesn't make it necessary to have clean culture to inoculate with?
Plus, does anyone ever use clean agar to inoculate a BRF cake and do PF Tek? or is that pointless and would bring nothing?
Bacteria can’t move through BRF the way it can move over grain, and you don’t break up BRF and spread the contam around.
You can use agar to BRF cakes, just use filtered lids and leave out the dry verm layer.
I appreciate you taking the time to answer but I'm curious and wanted to ask why. Why can't bacteria move through brf the way they move over grain. Do we have any references here regarding how the method was developed and what was the principle/idea behind it?
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SirPsycho
Purple Belt in Google-Fu



Registered: 01/01/20
Posts: 6,907
Loc: Rent free in your head
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: drVetker]
#28400056 - 07/18/23 06:50 PM (6 months, 9 days ago) |
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Quote:
drVetker said:
Quote:
RoscoeReturns said:
Quote:
drVetker said: PF Tek BRF cake question
Hi everyone, generally the suggestion is not to go spore to grain but clean it up on agar and then send it. Now, with PF Tek we go spore to "substrate i guess" and are not worried about contamination. Why? Why does a brf + verm cake specifically lend itself to this approach of inoculating with multispore and fruiting? I mean, what is it about the substrate here that doesn't make it necessary to have clean culture to inoculate with?
Plus, does anyone ever use clean agar to inoculate a BRF cake and do PF Tek? or is that pointless and would bring nothing?
Bacteria can’t move through BRF the way it can move over grain, and you don’t break up BRF and spread the contam around.
You can use agar to BRF cakes, just use filtered lids and leave out the dry verm layer.
I appreciate you taking the time to answer but I'm curious and wanted to ask why. Why can't bacteria move through brf the way they move over grain. Do we have any references here regarding how the method was developed and what was the principle/idea behind it?
Because brf cakes are a big dense mass that makes it very difficult for the liquid bio flim thing bacteria rely on to spread to actually spread.
The big thing is we don't shake brf cakes and help spread the contam around
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Ask me about free Ps tampanesis, Ps subtropicalis and Ps cubensis (ESS) prints Balance in life is like running on ice.
🅑🅞🅣🅣🅛🅔 🅖🅐🅝🅖
    "Mist your balls and fan your asshole" - Pandaskis, 2023
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drVetker
Stranger

Registered: 10/25/22
Posts: 215
Last seen: 2 months, 21 days
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: SirPsycho]
#28400065 - 07/18/23 06:58 PM (6 months, 9 days ago) |
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Quote:
SirPsycho said:
Quote:
drVetker said:
...
I appreciate you taking the time to answer but I'm curious and wanted to ask why. Why can't bacteria move through brf the way they move over grain. Do we have any references here regarding how the method was developed and what was the principle/idea behind it?
Because brf cakes are a big dense mass that makes it very difficult for the liquid bio flim thing bacteria rely on to spread to actually spread.
The big thing is we don't shake brf cakes and help spread the contam around
Thank you sir. Would it then make sense not to shake a grain jar if any bacterial action is spotted but leave it to colonize and case the grain in jar and leave to fruit McKenna style?
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SirPsycho
Purple Belt in Google-Fu



Registered: 01/01/20
Posts: 6,907
Loc: Rent free in your head
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: drVetker]
#28400071 - 07/18/23 07:06 PM (6 months, 9 days ago) |
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Quote:
drVetker said:
Quote:
SirPsycho said:
Quote:
drVetker said:
...
I appreciate you taking the time to answer but I'm curious and wanted to ask why. Why can't bacteria move through brf the way they move over grain. Do we have any references here regarding how the method was developed and what was the principle/idea behind it?
Because brf cakes are a big dense mass that makes it very difficult for the liquid bio flim thing bacteria rely on to spread to actually spread.
The big thing is we don't shake brf cakes and help spread the contam around
Thank you sir. Would it then make sense not to shake a grain jar if any bacterial action is spotted but leave it to colonize and case the grain in jar and leave to fruit McKenna style?
Yeah, absolutely. We sort of apply that principle when we top fruit bacterial jars instead of breaking up and spawning.
--------------------
Ask me about free Ps tampanesis, Ps subtropicalis and Ps cubensis (ESS) prints Balance in life is like running on ice.
🅑🅞🅣🅣🅛🅔 🅖🅐🅝🅖
    "Mist your balls and fan your asshole" - Pandaskis, 2023
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drVetker
Stranger

Registered: 10/25/22
Posts: 215
Last seen: 2 months, 21 days
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: SirPsycho]
#28400073 - 07/18/23 07:10 PM (6 months, 9 days ago) |
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...
Quote:
SirPsycho said: Yeah, absolutely. We sort of apply that principle when we top fruit bacterial jars instead of breaking up and spawning.
Thank you
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Pickle Rick
Gherkin



Registered: 07/24/22
Posts: 864
Loc: Jar
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: drVetker]
#28400173 - 07/18/23 10:58 PM (6 months, 9 days ago) |
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I whacked some oats in a bucket with hot water for 36 hours. They fermented a bit. Rinsed them and wondering if I should toss and do another batch in cold water or cook em and inoc. Anyone have experience with slightly fermented oats?
-------------------- P i c k l e R i c k
Pick Rick's Mushroom Chocolate
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drVetker
Stranger

Registered: 10/25/22
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Pickle Rick]
#28400899 - 07/19/23 03:50 PM (6 months, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
Pickle Rick said: I whacked some oats in a bucket with hot water for 36 hours. They fermented a bit. Rinsed them and wondering if I should toss and do another batch in cold water or cook em and inoc. Anyone have experience with slightly fermented oats?
Maybe you too can sprout them so that the community has some repeatability for that particular experiment
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LtLurker
Lost Sailor



Registered: 01/03/18
Posts: 7,535
Loc: Borderlands
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: drVetker]
#28400951 - 07/19/23 04:26 PM (6 months, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
drVetker said: PF Tek BRF cake question
Hi everyone, generally the suggestion is not to go spore to grain but clean it up on agar and then send it. Now, with PF Tek we go spore to "substrate i guess" and are not worried about contamination. Why? Why does a brf + verm cake specifically lend itself to this approach of inoculating with multispore and fruiting? I mean, what is it about the substrate here that doesn't make it necessary to have clean culture to inoculate with?
Plus, does anyone ever use clean agar to inoculate a BRF cake and do PF Tek? or is that pointless and would bring nothing?
verm is not liked by bacteria, they just don't seem to spread as fast as other mediums. Molds I think don't change much. your basically handicapping the most common root cause of loss from contam. It's enough for success most of the time without issues, but will occasional still fail to things in your syringe.
agar to brf yes you can and they don't really shake qnd break up so it's slow, but can atleast be practice or a way to start a slurry instead of li/lc or make an lc/li from plate for better results than syringe directly. in my journal there's a piece about using pints with brf, same concepts I used for first agar attempts while shopping for pc to move to grain.
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LtLurker
Lost Sailor



Registered: 01/03/18
Posts: 7,535
Loc: Borderlands
Last seen: 6 days, 4 hours
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Pickle Rick]
#28400969 - 07/19/23 04:41 PM (6 months, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
Pickle Rick said: I whacked some oats in a bucket with hot water for 36 hours. They fermented a bit. Rinsed them and wondering if I should toss and do another batch in cold water or cook em and inoc. Anyone have experience with slightly fermented oats?
I had this happen recently a few times leaving grains out too long after soak. I rinsed and let it dry again most of way. get any slime out, then use maybe 1/3 of jar no more, next 3rd I did dry verm mixed first and some prepped coir after to kinda spread questionable water, then add known good water.
after sterilizing they worked, but still looked bacterial, probably was not great practice but saved some waste. one even left long enough to sprout.
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Pickle Rick]
#28401143 - 07/19/23 07:57 PM (6 months, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
Pickle Rick said: Anyone have experience with slightly fermented oats?
Here's a great reply to Josex's oats thread regarding fermentation:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27777884#27777884
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drVetker
Stranger

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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: LtLurker]
#28401203 - 07/19/23 09:29 PM (6 months, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
LtLurker said: ...
agar to brf yes you can and they don't really shake qnd break up so it's slow, but can atleast be practice or a way to start a slurry instead of li/lc or make an lc/li from plate for better results than syringe directly. in my journal there's a piece about using pints with brf, same concepts I used for first agar attempts while shopping for pc to move to grain.
Hey Lt, thank you for replying.
I keep thinking I could do what McKenna does in his book where they blend an agar plate in a sterilized blender and use a sterilized Pipette to inject the slurry to grain. This could be adapted to get a clean culture from an agar plate to a sterilized brf cake and see how that performs.
I have a clone from the last grow on a plate now and am planning to do bottle tek and mateja water tub pf tek with the clone to experiment and learn a bit. This seems like something I could try for inoculating the brf cakes at least.
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Pickle Rick
Gherkin



Registered: 07/24/22
Posts: 864
Loc: Jar
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Stipe-n Cap] 1
#28401403 - 07/20/23 05:05 AM (6 months, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
Stipe-n Cap said:
Quote:
Pickle Rick said: Anyone have experience with slightly fermented oats?
Here's a great reply to Josex's oats thread regarding fermentation:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27777884#27777884
That was a good and informative read. Threw away a bucketload of oats. Starting over.. thanks Stipe
-------------------- P i c k l e R i c k
Pick Rick's Mushroom Chocolate
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phenyl
Stupid person



Registered: 09/03/22
Posts: 328
Loc: Bat Country
Last seen: 6 hours, 4 minutes
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Pickle Rick]
#28403878 - 07/22/23 12:59 PM (6 months, 5 days ago) |
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Is drying swabs in flow all that important in terms of inhibiting bacterial growth in practice? Does anyone not dry swabs and not suffer from heavily contaminated germination?
I'd usually keep swabs in autoclave pouches (which are permeable to water vapour and thus seem to dry out fine), but I'm planning a giveaway and find them clunky to ship. Considering letting swabs dry in flow in a sterile beaker for a few hours before packaging in grip seal bags.
-------------------- The fool who persists in his folly will become wise.
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Guerrilla
Bumbaclart


Registered: 01/30/21
Posts: 3,170
Loc: United Kingdom
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: phenyl]
#28404265 - 07/22/23 06:05 PM (6 months, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
phenyl said: Is drying swabs in flow all that important in terms of inhibiting bacterial growth in practice? Does anyone not dry swabs and not suffer from heavily contaminated germination?
I'd usually keep swabs in autoclave pouches (which are permeable to water vapour and thus seem to dry out fine), but I'm planning a giveaway and find them clunky to ship. Considering letting swabs dry in flow in a sterile beaker for a few hours before packaging in grip seal bags.
I know Faht puts them straight into their packages.
I personally dry them out, having believed its good practice and always having clean swabs.
Haven't tried it without drying to see if it makes a difference.
-------------------- Being pissed on does not make you a real man.
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SirPsycho
Purple Belt in Google-Fu



Registered: 01/01/20
Posts: 6,907
Loc: Rent free in your head
Last seen: 1 hour, 33 minutes
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Guerrilla] 12
#28404299 - 07/22/23 06:40 PM (6 months, 5 days ago) |
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--------------------
Ask me about free Ps tampanesis, Ps subtropicalis and Ps cubensis (ESS) prints Balance in life is like running on ice.
🅑🅞🅣🅣🅛🅔 🅖🅐🅝🅖
    "Mist your balls and fan your asshole" - Pandaskis, 2023
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aPurpleCray0n
His Dudeness



Registered: 02/13/23
Posts: 290
Loc: 🇨🇦
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: SirPsycho] 3
#28404304 - 07/22/23 06:44 PM (6 months, 5 days ago) |
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Doing gods work over there
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nektar61
Into SporePlay



Registered: 07/04/20
Posts: 3,241
Loc: Cube Satellite
Last seen: 9 days, 18 hours
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: drVetker]
#28405168 - 07/23/23 10:57 AM (6 months, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
drVetker said: I keep thinking I could do what McKenna does in his book where they blend an agar plate in a sterilized blender and use a sterilized Pipette to inject the slurry to grain.
People do that, here, it's called Liquid Inoculant. Here's a tek: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26337900
As with Liquid Culture, only make from plate you know is clean. Otherwise instead of growing lots of shrooms fast, you'll be growing lots of contam fast.
-------------------- -NEW? Start here.
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tryptkaloids
Learner



Registered: 02/08/15
Posts: 12,641
Loc: Exact Center
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: nektar61]
#28405174 - 07/23/23 11:04 AM (6 months, 4 days ago) |
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Yea it's best to avoid liquids until you get your agar inoculations down
-------------------- "Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage Flowchart for Recommended plan of action. Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms Use the Damn search engine After you know what you're doing, take a break Pick a book, Make some chips! Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
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tedoro
ToadStool Tender



Registered: 02/06/15
Posts: 2,206
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Inocuole]
#28409172 - 07/26/23 02:33 PM (6 months, 1 day ago) |
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Heyya,
I've been using culinary lime with good success in my room temp soak of WBS.
I'm wondering if I can use AG Hydrated Lime with confidence in its stead. The culinary stuff is hard to find.
https://www.farmstore.com/product/ag-lime-50-lb/
-------------------- -------------------- Deep pour soft agar plates-->bags of WBS-->Low Profile Monos Clean spawn thread | Put a thermometer on your PC
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