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johnukguy
Learning



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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Lefty68W] 2
#28332511 - 05/24/23 12:27 PM (8 months, 2 days ago) |
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Quote:
Lefty68W said:
And I feel differently. Humidity is created by water evaporating. I believe you think I am missing my walls and lid daily or in some schedule. I must only if the walls and lid start to get dry.
The condensation on the walls and lid is part of the tubs natural humidifier. And saying things like misting the walls and is bad information it can hurt new growers.
Again, it's not about how we feel. It's basic science. Condensation on the tub walls is due to temperature differentials and is not a reliable indicator of surface conditions.
This then is not down to personal opinion but simple known facts. The condensation that matters therefore isn't on the tub walls. It's from the substrate surface. You are not growing mushrooms on plastic.
And yes, bad advice can be detrimental to new growers, which is why so often advising people to mist tub walls and lids is called out here as being exactly that - bad advice. As RR said:
Quote:
Roger Rabbit Said:
Bad advice in a few posts above.
You MUST mist your cakes. Evaporation of moisture from the cake or other substrate is the number one pinning trigger, bar none. This is why we provide for lots of fresh air exchange. Even at 99% humidity, if you're giving the proper amount of fresh air, the cake will lose moisture. If it did not, it would either not pin at all, or pin poorly.
You mist daily to replace this lost moisture. The walls of the terrarium are not growing mushrooms, so it's a waste of water and time to spray them. You spray the cakes, and the overspray from doing so re-hydrates the perlite, keeping humidity in the proper range. RR
And yes, you are correct, things do change as we learn more. Old school growers years back thought that misting tub walls and lids was good practice and helpful. But for over a decade now that's not been the consensus at all, since it's been established beyond doubt that surface conditions and moisture there is what matters, not condensation on tub walls and lids.
If you're still not convinced, Munchauzen covers here why condensation on tub lids and walls isn't a reliable measure for surface conditions and, again, explicitly calls it out as bad advice:
Quote:
Munchauzen Said:
this is just bad advice. the droplets on the lid do absolutely nothing. there are zero mushrooms growing on the lid...If you rely on condensation droplets, you have no control on the level of hydration. Did the droplets hydrate the surface enough or too much? Or what if somebody changes the thermostat, now the condensation is gone.
You're suggesting a lazy, half assed approach as a replacement for something that takes like 5 seconds. Thats just bad advice, dood.
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Lefty68W
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: johnukguy]
#28332513 - 05/24/23 12:31 PM (8 months, 2 days ago) |
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Quote:
johnukguy said:
Quote:
Lefty68W said:
And I feel differently. Humidity is created by water evaporating. I believe you think I am missing my walls and lid daily or in some schedule. I must only if the walls and lid start to get dry.
The condensation on the walls and lid is part of the tubs natural humidifier. And saying things like misting the walls and is bad information it can hurt new growers.
Again, it's not about how we feel. It's basic science. Condensation on the tub walls is due to temperature differentials and is not a reliable indicator of surface conditions.
This then is not down to personal opinion but simple known facts. The condensation that matters therefore isn't on the tub walls. It's from the substrate surface. You are not growing mushrooms on plastic.
And yes, bad advice can be detrimental to new growers, which is why so often advising people to mist tub walls and lids is called out here as being exactly that - bad advice. As RR said:
Quote:
Roger Rabbit Said:
Bad advice in a few posts above.
You MUST mist your cakes. Evaporation of moisture from the cake or other substrate is the number one pinning trigger, bar none. This is why we provide for lots of fresh air exchange. Even at 99% humidity, if you're giving the proper amount of fresh air, the cake will lose moisture. If it did not, it would either not pin at all, or pin poorly.
You mist daily to replace this lost moisture. The walls of the terrarium are not growing mushrooms, so it's a waste of water and time to spray them. You spray the cakes, and the overspray from doing so re-hydrates the perlite, keeping humidity in the proper range. RR
And yes, you are correct, things do change as we learn more. Old school growers years back thought that misting tub walls and lids was good practice and helpful. But for over a decade now that's not been the consensus at all, since it's been established beyond doubt that surface conditions and moisture there is what matters, not condensation on tub walls and lids.
This is science. Humidity in the tub is what leads to perfect surface conditions. Evaporation raises humidity. That’s literally science.
I am telling you that proper humidity leads to proper surface conditions. That’s the whole science behind how monotubs work. You shouldn’t have to mist your surface ever. You shouldn’t have to mist the walls and lid but occasionally. And keeping the walls and lid wet helps keep humidity at the perfect level for perfect surface conditions
This is all science
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altford78
What do I put here

Registered: 05/09/23
Posts: 890
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Lefty68W] 2
#28332521 - 05/24/23 12:38 PM (8 months, 2 days ago) |
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The way I'm reading it is you are trying to say that you have an almost closed loop system which regulates itself, and you mist the walls to kind of top up any small losses in water.
This presupposes you have enough water in the sub to account for fruiting and evaporative losses.
Misting the walls is bad advice because the average grow is nowhere near such perfect conditions.
-------------------- Mold cultivator extraordinaire I also dabble in bacteria I'm also a retard sometimes
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Lefty68W
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: altford78]
#28332524 - 05/24/23 12:42 PM (8 months, 2 days ago) |
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Quote:
altford78 said: The way I'm reading it is you are trying to say that you have an almost closed loop system which regulates itself, and you mist the walls to kind of top up any small losses in water.
This presupposes you have enough water in the sub to account for fruiting and evaporative losses.
Misting the walls is bad advice because the average grow is nowhere near such perfect conditions.
Conditions don’t have to be ideal because if the balance is off you fix it.
If the tub is too wet you provide more passive fae. If the tub walls and lid are drying out regularly you have too much fae. So you cut it back. If you can’t change the fae you simply will have to mist more and change your tub set up next grow.
That’s the simplicity in it. You are simply keeping the cycle going through misting and adjusting the fae to your grow environment
This gives you perfect conditions.
Edited by Lefty68W (05/24/23 12:43 PM)
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johnukguy
Learning



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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Lefty68W] 1
#28332527 - 05/24/23 12:45 PM (8 months, 2 days ago) |
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I see an error here. The confusion seems to be that you're using condensation on the tub lid and walls as a reliable measure of the surface conditions of the cake/substrate, under the umbrella of general relative humidity in the tub.
Again, as was made clear by TC's in the threads quoted, and as simple science, condensation on the tub walls and lid is due to temperature differential. It isn't directly indicative of surface conditions and is not a reliable measure for surface conditions.
This is why the practice of misting tub walls and lids is routinely called out here as being bad advice.
I realize that you're not going to change your mind, so will end my part of this discussion here, but do be aware that the consensus for some years is that this thinking is outdated and inaccurate. Hence why this practice is almost universally not encouraged or supported here.
-------------------- How to post pictures to shroomery TEK Shroomery Trusted Cultivator And Member YouTube Channels. “Evey Hammond: Who are you? V: Who? Who is but the form following the function of what and what I am is a man in a mask. Evey Hammond: Well I can see that. V: Of course you can. I'm not questioning your powers of observation I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is”
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Lefty68W
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: johnukguy]
#28332533 - 05/24/23 12:52 PM (8 months, 2 days ago) |
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Quote:
johnukguy said: I see an error here. The confusion seems to be that you're using condensation on the tub lid and walls as a reliable measure of the surface conditions of the cake/substrate, under the umbrella of general relative humidity in the tub.
Again, as was made clear by TC's in the threads quoted, and as simple science, condensation on the tub walls and lid is due to temperature differential. It isn't directly indicative of surface conditions and is not a reliable measure for surface conditions.
This is why the practice of misting tub walls and lids is routinely called out here as being bad advice.
I realize that you're not going to change your mind, so will end my part of this discussion here, but do be aware that the consensus for some years is that this thinking is outdated and inaccurate. Hence why this practice is almost universally not encouraged or supported here.
No I can look at my tubs surface and see the surface conditions. Then I can see the results of how my tubs fruit for evidence of surface conditions.
I am saying that achieving proper surface conduit a is achieved by keeping the walls and lid wet and keeping the cycle running.
Condensation is water vapor going from a gas to a liquid. You need humidity to be above a certain level to get condensation. If the walls and lid are dry water evaporates from the surface hurting surface conditions. If the walls and lid are wet, since they have more surface area, water will evaporate from them first and that allows the surface conditions to remains perfect.
Depending on amount of fae and outside humidity the cycle may be out of balance. And the tub walls and lid may start to dry out. You mist them to recharge the cycle.
I do what I do for a reason. How I understand the science of what happens in a monotub.
Noting we do is set I stone. That’s why teks have changed. My results speak loudly that maybe I know a thing or 2 and it’s outside the box thinking, not echo chamber acceptance, that leads us to improve the way we do things.
Isn’t that why we are here?
Edited by Lefty68W (05/24/23 12:59 PM)
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Way
The


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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Lefty68W] 2
#28332541 - 05/24/23 12:57 PM (8 months, 2 days ago) |
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I would just like to point out that full canopies aren't indicative of perfect growing conditions, and all of the split caps in your profile picture are indicative of less than ideal conditions. 
It at is is bad advice to give to people to mist the walls. Period.
Is it harmful? Who fucking knows. Is it less efficient in my experience than misting the surface directly? By far.
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That's the way she goes, boys. Sometimes she goes, sometimes she doesn't, cause that's the fuckin way she goes.
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Lefty68W
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Way]
#28332546 - 05/24/23 01:02 PM (8 months, 2 days ago) |
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Quote:
Way said: I would just like to point out that full canopies aren't indicative of perfect growing conditions, and all of the split caps in your profile picture are indicative of less than ideal conditions. 
It at is is bad advice to give to people to mist the walls. Period.
Is it harmful? Who fucking knows. Is it less efficient in my experience than misting the surface directly? By far.
Oh please. You aren’t getting full canopies and yields without proper surface conditions. Next it’s also on how my tubs fruit. My GT, B+ and Blue Meanies all are harvested 11-12 days after spawning. What would you say is a good measure of surface conditions If not by results?
How is it less efficient than misting the surface directly?
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Way
The


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Posts: 4,336
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Lefty68W] 2
#28332553 - 05/24/23 01:08 PM (8 months, 2 days ago) |
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Quote:
Lefty68W said:
Quote:
Way said: I would just like to point out that full canopies aren't indicative of perfect growing conditions, and all of the split caps in your profile picture are indicative of less than ideal conditions. 
It at is is bad advice to give to people to mist the walls. Period.
Is it harmful? Who fucking knows. Is it less efficient in my experience than misting the surface directly? By far.
Oh please. You aren’t getting full canopies and yields without proper surface conditions. Next it’s also on how my tubs fruit. My GT, B+ and Blue Meanies all are harvested 11-12 days after spawning. What would you say is a good measure of surface conditions If not by results?
How is it less efficient than misting the surface directly?
You most definitely can get full canopies with unclebens and neglect tek. Not that I would ever recommend such a thing.
I started misting the walls, I switched to misting the sub after a few grows if I ever need to mist. Surface conditions remain longer when I do. I suggest you give it a shot instead of burying your head in the sand.
There's a whole army of people telling you that you are spreading misinfo. Not just in this thread, but every single post of yours i have seen.
I don't have to pile on. I just wanted to let you know that you have room for improvement in your grows friend.
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That's the way she goes, boys. Sometimes she goes, sometimes she doesn't, cause that's the fuckin way she goes.
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Lefty68W
Stranger



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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Way]
#28332567 - 05/24/23 01:16 PM (8 months, 2 days ago) |
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Quote:
Way said:
Quote:
Lefty68W said:
Quote:
Way said: I would just like to point out that full canopies aren't indicative of perfect growing conditions, and all of the split caps in your profile picture are indicative of less than ideal conditions. 
It at is is bad advice to give to people to mist the walls. Period.
Is it harmful? Who fucking knows. Is it less efficient in my experience than misting the surface directly? By far.
Oh please. You aren’t getting full canopies and yields without proper surface conditions. Next it’s also on how my tubs fruit. My GT, B+ and Blue Meanies all are harvested 11-12 days after spawning. What would you say is a good measure of surface conditions If not by results?
How is it less efficient than misting the surface directly?
You most definitely can get full canopies with unclebens and neglect tek. Not that I would ever recommend such a thing.
I started misting the walls, I switched to misting the sub after a few grows if I ever need to mist. Surface conditions remain longer when I do. I suggest you give it a shot instead of burying your head in the sand.
There's a whole army of people telling you that you are spreading misinfo. Not just in this thread, but every single post of yours i have seen.
I don't have to pile on. I just wanted to let you know that you have room for improvement in your grows friend.
What posts? I have rarely posted here lol
I follow the results I get. I don’t care how many people tell me what I should do or what is bad advice. The results of the things I do in my grows are what I follow. And I will give advice based on the things I do and results I get.
I rarely have to mist my walls and I never have to mist my cakes. If you aren’t maintaining prefect surface conditions all the way through a flush something is off on how you are fruiting your tubs.
There are many teks on how to fruit a monotub. No one is the gatekeeper of what is better or not. Results are the only thing that matters.
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Way
The


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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Lefty68W] 4
#28332575 - 05/24/23 01:23 PM (8 months, 2 days ago) |
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Fair enough, spread it all you want. There is people who still tape the outside of their bins because it works for them. Or people that inject spores to grain because it works for them. People that fan every 2 hours because it works for them. People that colonize in darkness because it works for them. People that inoculate without a sab because it works for them
Just be prepared to be called out for bad advice. Because all we take a conglomerate of the anecdotal evidence of everyone here and push mycology forward as best we can.
And btw, nobody argues that you shouldn't have to mist.
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That's the way she goes, boys. Sometimes she goes, sometimes she doesn't, cause that's the fuckin way she goes.
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Smellyhobbit
Actual Retard



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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Lefty68W] 2
#28332576 - 05/24/23 01:23 PM (8 months, 2 days ago) |
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What’s he’s saying is you’re spreading outdated information with a worse track record than contemporary teks. Just because it mostly works doesn’t mean contemporary information isn’t better.
What you do with your grows is your business and no one here is going to stop you from using outdated information if you really want to. We’re telling you it’s bad form to spread it.
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Lefty68W
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Smellyhobbit]
#28332579 - 05/24/23 01:28 PM (8 months, 2 days ago) |
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Smellyhobbit said: What’s he’s saying is you’re spreading outdated information with a worse track record than contemporary teks. Just because it mostly works doesn’t mean contemporary information isn’t better.
What you do with your grows is your business and no one here is going to stop you from using outdated information if you really want to. We’re telling you it’s bad form to spread it.
It’s not outdated information. Fanning is outdated. I am talking about a different approach rather than misting the cake to maintain perfect surface conditions.
And anyone that has read tons of posts from years ago on here will see multiple ways to fruit a tub be considered accepted then outdated then accepted again. And the results of my grows are what matters to me. Not what some gatekeepers say is accepted today only to change tomorrow. And things only change tomorrow because people do things differently and share what they do and the results they get
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Screwup
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Lefty68W] 2
#28332582 - 05/24/23 01:30 PM (8 months, 2 days ago) |
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So 1 guy for misting the walls At least basically the rest who understand it’s more applicable to just mist the substrate if needed.
We will revisit in five years.
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Lefty68W
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Screwup]
#28332587 - 05/24/23 01:32 PM (8 months, 2 days ago) |
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Screwup said: So 1 guy for misting the walls At least basically the rest who understand it’s more applicable to just mist the substrate if needed.
We will revisit in five years.
And things we are doing now and arguing we should do will likely be considered outdated.
Like I said, results speak for themselves. As they should
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Screwup
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Lefty68W] 1
#28332591 - 05/24/23 01:34 PM (8 months, 2 days ago) |
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Right but we’ll revisit in five years and see what has or hasn’t been changed in terms of misting plastic or misting the substrate.
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Edited by Screwup (05/24/23 01:38 PM)
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Smellyhobbit
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Lefty68W] 2
#28332592 - 05/24/23 01:34 PM (8 months, 2 days ago) |
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Quote:
Lefty68W said:
Quote:
Smellyhobbit said: What’s he’s saying is you’re spreading outdated information with a worse track record than contemporary teks. Just because it mostly works doesn’t mean contemporary information isn’t better.
What you do with your grows is your business and no one here is going to stop you from using outdated information if you really want to. We’re telling you it’s bad form to spread it.
It’s not outdated information. Fanning is outdated. I am talking about a different approach rather than misting the cake to maintain perfect surface conditions.
And anyone that has read tons of posts from years ago on here will see multiple ways to fruit a tub be considered accepted then outdated then accepted again. And the results of my grows are what matters to me. Not what some gatekeepers say is accepted today only to change tomorrow. And things only change tomorrow because people do things differently and share what they do and the results they get
As I said already, do what you want with your tubs. We aren’t gatekeeping, just gently correcting you for the sake of the public. No one here is really interested in convincing you of anything. It’s a public forum, and we operate with that in mind. It’s for other people to see and get up to date, correct information.
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Lefty68W
Stranger



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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Smellyhobbit]
#28332601 - 05/24/23 01:37 PM (8 months, 2 days ago) |
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Quote:
Smellyhobbit said:
Quote:
Lefty68W said:
Quote:
Smellyhobbit said: What’s he’s saying is you’re spreading outdated information with a worse track record than contemporary teks. Just because it mostly works doesn’t mean contemporary information isn’t better.
What you do with your grows is your business and no one here is going to stop you from using outdated information if you really want to. We’re telling you it’s bad form to spread it.
It’s not outdated information. Fanning is outdated. I am talking about a different approach rather than misting the cake to maintain perfect surface conditions.
And anyone that has read tons of posts from years ago on here will see multiple ways to fruit a tub be considered accepted then outdated then accepted again. And the results of my grows are what matters to me. Not what some gatekeepers say is accepted today only to change tomorrow. And things only change tomorrow because people do things differently and share what they do and the results they get
As I said already, do what you want with your tubs. We aren’t gatekeeping, just gently correcting you for the sake of the public. No one here is really interested in convincing you of anything. It’s a public forum, and we operate with that in mind. It’s for other people to see and get up to date, correct information.
How do you not call correcting someone not gatekeeping.
I explain what I do and why. I showed results. You can’t knock the results but call it bad advice simply because you don’t agree with what I do. Not because of the results
That is literally gatekeeping. Different methods and their validity should be based in the results. Not what the current popular method.
Who decides what the correct information is? See the gatekeeping?
Results should be all that matters
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Lefty68W
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Screwup]
#28332603 - 05/24/23 01:39 PM (8 months, 2 days ago) |
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Quote:
Screwup said: Right but we’ll revisit in five years and see what has or hasn’t been changed in terms of misting plastic or misting the substrate.
Misting plastic that has the greatest surface area in the tub that allows for the most evaporation to keep proper humidity.
It’s not simply misting plastic and you not understanding the science doesn’t change anything
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Screwup
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Lefty68W] 2
#28332605 - 05/24/23 01:40 PM (8 months, 2 days ago) |
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Tell me why we’ll have people come in here misting the walls and tub to no avail but then we have them mist the sub and suddenly things turn around. It’s as simple as that. 🤔. It’s okay if you don’t understand but you get results. Your ways just out dated information when there’s better info available 🤷♂️
-------------------- 🅃 🄴 🄰 🄼 🄲 🄻 🄸 🄽 🄶 🅆 🅁 🄰 🄿 Help US help YOU TEK 2023 Dehydrator TEK
Edited by Screwup (05/24/23 01:42 PM)
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