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OfflineSirPsycho
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Shrimps] * 3
    #28209066 - 03/01/23 06:36 AM (10 months, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Shrimps said:
I don't give much thought about TC tags^^



Really, I just wanna see a couple of mushroom nerds slap fight :shrug:


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InvisibleShrimps
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: SirPsycho] * 4
    #28209135 - 03/01/23 07:59 AM (10 months, 24 days ago)

that would be fun though^^

But why do I have to think now about two TC's one cup? :shrug:


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InvisibleFloret
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: LtLurker] * 1
    #28209707 - 03/01/23 03:47 PM (10 months, 24 days ago)

I thought letting your jars consolidate increased the time for the myc to grow and the longer it took to grow, the greater the potency?

Anecdotally, it seems that grow time correlates with potency.


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InvisibleFloret
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Shrimps] * 4
    #28209708 - 03/01/23 03:48 PM (10 months, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Shrimps said:
But why do I have to think now about two TC's one cup? :shrug:



Two TCs one quart


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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: SirPsycho] * 3
    #28210139 - 03/01/23 07:30 PM (10 months, 24 days ago)

Quote:

SirPsycho said:
Quote:

LadysKnight said:
The Quickening





Am I the only one around here that thinks this is how tc tags should be given out? Gotta take out a current TC and claim their essence




Well, this is definitely how it works. Ever notice how eats, hamloaf, cron, and others haven't been around lately....

New TC' come in, the old ones are never heard from again :rofl:


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Invisibleabductee
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Floret]
    #28210632 - 03/02/23 06:39 AM (10 months, 23 days ago)

I don't believe there's any correlation between grow time and potency, I believe potency is based on genetics.


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Offlinesporemaster420
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: abductee]
    #28211422 - 03/02/23 06:18 PM (10 months, 23 days ago)

Quote:

abductee said:
I don't believe there's any correlation between grow time and potency, I believe potency is based on genetics.




Pretty sure I read the other day in a peer-reviewed article that potency varies within isolates according to growth conditions. So genetics may play a role, but so doesn’t the environment.


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OfflineLtLurker
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: sporemaster420]
    #28211546 - 03/02/23 07:22 PM (10 months, 23 days ago)

Quote:

sporemaster420 said:
Quote:

abductee said:
I don't believe there's any correlation between grow time and potency, I believe potency is based on genetics.




Pretty sure I read the other day in a peer-reviewed article that potency varies within isolates according to growth conditions. So genetics may play a role, but so doesn’t the environment.



Genetics is a far bigger factor. I dont doubt shitty resource deprived shrooms struggling to survive dont produce their potential, but any experienced grower is looking for consistent strong genetics

There's also mountains of data from years of people trying additives, from nutes to tryptaline and haven't gotten better potency than plain ol coir alone.


Edited by LtLurker (03/02/23 07:29 PM)


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OfflineNichrome
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: LtLurker] * 4
    #28211684 - 03/02/23 08:43 PM (10 months, 23 days ago)

:shrug:

All pretty shitty experiments honestly. Nothing conclusive imho.

Without chromatography or at least quality quantifying reagents there is no way to judge whether or not potency was changed by additives or not. You'd need controls and you'd need to quantify tryptophan uptake every few minutes over days of growth to see how and when it is absorbed. Typically you would use some kind of tryptophan with reflective markers. The stages of mycelial growth where tryptophan is absorbed by any psilo mush has not yet been studied in any real fashion to my knowledge. For example many fungi absorb tryptophan only in certain stages of growth and sometimes very rapidly and sometimes not at all. Some fungi can absorb large amounts of tryptophan in literally just minutes in liquid culture but won't absorb any at all in later stages of growth. Absorption of tryptophan and synthesis into alkaloids is not usually that fast of a process. Many things like phosphorus content in media for example can either speed up or slow down tryptophan metabolism.

Factors would be too many to make any defined decisions one way or another on that topic. Just the stage of growth alone has a huge play and only recently has L Tryptophan been widely available which is the form that is known to be used vs the D form tryptophan that was available until recently. Lots of factors. Lots of thinking involved. This is not a topic for simple minds.


--------------------
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OfflineNichrome
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: abductee]
    #28211689 - 03/02/23 08:45 PM (10 months, 23 days ago)

Quote:

abductee said:
I don't believe there's any correlation between grow time and potency, I believe potency is based on genetics.





Genetic expression is often dependent on environmental factors. Genes are options not dictators.


--------------------
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OfflineLtLurker
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Floret]
    #28211692 - 03/02/23 08:47 PM (10 months, 23 days ago)

Quote:

SirPsycho said:
Quote:

LadysKnight said:
The Quickening





Am I the only one around here that thinks this is how tc tags should be given out? Gotta take out a current TC and claim their essence



Come on. Try and take it bro.

Quote:

Shrimps said:
I don't give much thought about TC tags^^



Honestly you shouldn't take it too seriously like we know it all or have authority. It's not like it denotes degrees or anything like that. Imo the main take aways are probably proven experience/skill, isn't ego driven/cant be wrong or other types of crazy/asshole behavior, positively impacts or furthers our craft/shroomery in some way.
Quote:

SirPsycho said:
Quote:

Shrimps said:
I don't give much thought about TC tags^^



Really, I just wanna see a couple of mushroom nerds slap fight :shrug:



I dont think it'd be how you imagine. Sure many have biology nerd in them,but all growers also gotta have some badass in them for the balls to risk felonies.

Quote:

Floret said:
I thought letting your jars consolidate increased the time for the myc to grow and the longer it took to grow, the greater the potency?

Anecdotally, it seems that grow time correlates with potency.



Thats not how it works nor what consolidation is. Thos is the phase befpre fruiting when it gathers up nutes and reinforces its growth a bit to pump out its fruits. Myc is going to consolidate as long as it needs to no matter what you do, no longer and no shorter.letting it do it in jars before birthing only applies to pf cakes they're going to be fruited as cakes, so they have less time to dry out or otherwise be messed with in cake chamber. Any other type of spawn will be broken up into a substrate and go back to colonizing.

Time = Potency doesn't have enough supporting data to verify it. The only anecdote is PE-Types have roughly double potency of normal cubes, and they tend to take a week more to fruit. Same is true for Enigma, but PE is one of its parents. We also see this occasionally in blobs of all varieties without extra potency


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OfflineNichrome
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: LtLurker]
    #28211694 - 03/02/23 08:51 PM (10 months, 23 days ago)

Time = Potency has no conflicting data to be "disproven" either.

As if cubes are not metabolic creatures or something.....:laugh2:


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OfflineLtLurker
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Nichrome]
    #28211704 - 03/02/23 08:58 PM (10 months, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Nichrome said:
:shrug:

All pretty shitty experiments honestly. Nothing conclusive imho.

Without chromatography or at least quality quantifying reagents there is no way to judge whether or not potency was changed by additives or not. You'd need controls and you'd need to quantify tryptophan uptake every few minutes over days of growth to see how and when it is absorbed. Typically you would use some kind of tryptophan with reflective markers. The stages of mycelial growth where tryptophan is absorbed by any psilo mush has not yet been studied in any real fashion to my knowledge. For example many fungi absorb tryptophan only in certain stages of growth and sometimes very rapidly and sometimes not at all. Some fungi can absorb large amounts of tryptophan in literally just minutes in liquid culture but won't absorb any at all in later stages of growth. Absorption of tryptophan and synthesis into alkaloids is not usually that fast of a process. Many things like phosphorus content in media for example can either speed up or slow down tryptophan metabolism.

Factors would be too many to make any defined decisions one way or another on that topic. Just the stage of growth alone has a huge play and only recently has L Tryptophan been widely available which is the form that is known to be used vs the D form tryptophan that was available until recently. Lots of factors. Lots of thinking involved. This is not a topic for simple minds.



Id agree they aren't the most precise but even just anecdotes with so many attempts id expect to see some disagreement if there's validity to it. At best with the info available it could be akin to cap vs stem potency; when tested and measured caps do have more concentrated psilo, but its such a small amount its negligible for practice applications.

The tryptophan stuff I can only really say bod and some other of the microbiology super nerds where in strong agreement the idea that mushrooms could absorb it and become more potent was absurd because shrooms lack the necessary "things" to accomplish this. Its a subject beyond my ability to understand at their level, but I can only believe them until its really proven and gets consensus amoung real mycologists.


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OfflineLtLurker
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Nichrome]
    #28211707 - 03/02/23 09:01 PM (10 months, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Nichrome said:
Time = Potency has no conflicting data to be "disproven" either.

As if cubes are not metabolic creatures or something.....:laugh2:



Blobs often grow longer and slower than the fruits around them and dont seem ant more potent. Sounds like its conflicting to me.

But again, I'm not a real microbiologist, dont even have a degree in any field. Ill easily concede to consensus from people smarter than me.

*oh yea and these new clones im working all the time have harvest times closer to normal fruit than PEs, but still as potent as APE, so there's the contradiction in the other direction.


Edited by LtLurker (03/02/23 09:03 PM)


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OfflineNichrome
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: LtLurker] * 1
    #28211714 - 03/02/23 09:05 PM (10 months, 23 days ago)

L-tryptophan is the precursor that psilocybe mushrooms use to synthesize active alkaloids. That is known and the genes have been identified. Psilocybe mushrooms do not make their own tryptophan. They are heterotrophs and they metabolize tryptophan from external sources in order to synth alks.

It's not rocket science.


:ancientaliens:


--------------------
β€œBetter to be deprived of food for three days, than tea for one.”


Freedom is not the right to do as you please, but the liberty to do as you should. ~Emerson


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OfflineSmellyhobbit
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Nichrome] * 6
    #28211718 - 03/02/23 09:07 PM (10 months, 23 days ago)

Which is why I hydrate coir with turkey broth.


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OfflineLtLurker
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Nichrome]
    #28211726 - 03/02/23 09:11 PM (10 months, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Nichrome said:
L-tryptophan is the precursor that psilocybe mushrooms use to synthesize active alkaloids. That is known and the genes have been identified. Psilocybe mushrooms do not make their own tryptophan. They are heterotrophs and they metabolize tryptophan from external sources in order to synth alks.

It's not rocket science.


:ancientaliens:



No... its mycology.

ok, I guess I'm remembering wrong. Right now I'm gonna go expand some jars and harvest a couple ounces of killer mushrooms, but ill have to look back into the discussion when I get a chance. Good talk bro, really hot that coffin nail good there.


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OfflineNichrome
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Smellyhobbit]
    #28211736 - 03/02/23 09:17 PM (10 months, 23 days ago)

Rye has about a gram of tryptophan per kilo.


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OfflineSmellyhobbit
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Nichrome]
    #28211746 - 03/02/23 09:25 PM (10 months, 23 days ago)

Is there any merit to selecting grain for its tryptophan content?


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A Love Letter to New Growers
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Growth 2023 - A Year In Review

Grow more shrooms. Eat more ass. :mushroom:



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OfflineNichrome
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Smellyhobbit]
    #28211753 - 03/02/23 09:30 PM (10 months, 23 days ago)

IMO yes absolutely. Good luck though as you'd have to batch test each bag for content prior to purchase. Amino acid content will change with growing conditions and genetics just like everything else.


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Freedom is not the right to do as you please, but the liberty to do as you should. ~Emerson


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