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OfflineAdas
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Smellyhobbit] * 3
    #28064621 - 11/22/22 11:24 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Smellyhobbit said:
Of course it’s a white cat.




White supremacy at its finest.


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OfflineSirPsycho
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Adas] * 3
    #28064623 - 11/22/22 11:25 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Well that escalated quickly


--------------------
:pm:Ask me about free Ps tampanesis, Ps subtropicalis and Ps cubensis (ESS) prints:pm:
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OfflineSmellyhobbit
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Inocuole]
    #28064624 - 11/22/22 11:25 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

I need to do more reading on true casings and their use. Obviously most of us here get along just fine without casing, or at most will use a psudo casing of coir or CV, but I don’t know why casings are peat or why you’d need them. Might be worth reading in to.

Also, I have just started working with SSLC this month. You’ve probably seen my post in pic of the day, but the millet is on day 8, I believe, and it’s nearly fully colonized. One more shake. Will wind up being under 2 weeks, for sure, which is nuts.

If you plan your tubs a month ahead of schedule, SSLC is a big time saver. Have it ready on the shelf and it’ll shave a week or two off your time vs inoculating agar to grain.


--------------------
A Love Letter to New Growers
A Guide for New Growers
Growth 2023 - A Year In Review

Grow more shrooms. Eat more ass. :mushroom:



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OfflineSirPsycho
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Smellyhobbit] * 3
    #28064632 - 11/22/22 11:29 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Smellyhobbit said:
I need to do more reading on true casings and their use. Obviously most of us here get along just fine without casing, or at most will use a psudo casing of coir or CV, but I don’t know why casings are peat or why you’d need them. Might be worth reading in to.

Also, I have just started working with SSLC this month. You’ve probably seen my post in pic of the day, but the millet is on day 8, I believe, and it’s nearly fully colonized. One more shake. Will wind up being under 2 weeks, for sure, which is nuts.

If you plan your tubs a month ahead of schedule, SSLC is a big time saver. Have it ready on the shelf and it’ll shave a week or two off your time vs inoculating agar to grain.



Traditionally they are peat because peat is devoid of nutrients while coir was still thought to contain some nutrients. That's why Pasty did the coir only experiment a while back. You can totally use CV, I have and it works great.

You only need it if you can't maintain surface conditions otherwise. Like with my set up.

They provide a moisture barrier between the air and sub, they signal to the mycelium to start fruiting cause it's run out of nutrients and they provide pockets of microclimate favourable for pinning.


--------------------
:pm:Ask me about free Ps tampanesis, Ps subtropicalis and Ps cubensis (ESS) prints:pm:
Balance in life is like running on ice.

  πŸ…‘πŸ…žπŸ…£πŸ…£πŸ…›πŸ…” πŸ…–πŸ…πŸ…πŸ…–

"Mist your balls and fan your asshole" - Pandaskis, 2023


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OfflinePhaedo
unemployed philosopher


Registered: 11/09/22
Posts: 107
Last seen: 1 month, 20 days
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Smellyhobbit] * 2
    #28064634 - 11/22/22 11:35 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Smellyhobbit said:
I need to do more reading on true casings and their use. Obviously most of us here get along just fine without casing, or at most will use a psudo casing of coir or CV, but I don’t know why casings are peat or why you’d need them. Might be worth reading in to.




According to Stamets, peat contains microorganisms that are beneficial for fruiting some species of mushroom, like agaricus for example.

My experience using peat is that it can hold slightly more water than coir, but I never noticed any difference using it as a top layer with cubensis.


--------------------
"A thing really exists if it has any capacity at all, either to do something...or to have the smallest thing done to it...I'll take it as a definition that being amounts to nothing other than capacity"

Plato-Sophist 274e


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OfflinePhaedo
unemployed philosopher


Registered: 11/09/22
Posts: 107
Last seen: 1 month, 20 days
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Phaedo]
    #28064655 - 11/22/22 12:04 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

My apologies for bringing up Stamets. I understand he has a bad name around here. Either way, was just stating what seemed to be relevant.

Carry on.


--------------------
"A thing really exists if it has any capacity at all, either to do something...or to have the smallest thing done to it...I'll take it as a definition that being amounts to nothing other than capacity"

Plato-Sophist 274e


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InvisibleShrimps
Traveler
I'm a teapot


Registered: 10/13/22
Posts: 2,501
Loc: Under the sea
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Phaedo]
    #28064661 - 11/22/22 12:09 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Why should it be a bad name around here? (I'm new and don't know why^^)

I was more thinking about testing out alternative (pan) casings in time, but I just finally found a source for peatmoss. It's actually not very ecological to use peat, what is the reason why it's hard to find here around. So I brought up this topic because of that^^

I find it a interesting topic, also what you said according to stamets. Would love to keep this conversation going :smile:


--------------------
I am not crazy, I prefer the term mentally hillarious.

Agar - The way to go!
Clean spawn checklist
Proper Surface Moisture
Recognizing and dealing with contamination

πŸ…ƒ πŸ„΄ πŸ„° πŸ„Ό    πŸ„² πŸ„» πŸ„Έ πŸ„½ πŸ„Ά πŸ…† πŸ… πŸ„° πŸ„Ώ


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OfflinePhaedo
unemployed philosopher


Registered: 11/09/22
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Last seen: 1 month, 20 days
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Shrimps] * 1
    #28064751 - 11/22/22 01:31 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

I can't comment on why Stamets isn't popular, as I am also new here.

I just remember reading that many people here routinely correct the outdated information found in TMC. It was written in the 1980s, after all.

But I did find an article you might find interesting, if only to satisfy your curiosity: Circular alternatives to peat in growing media: A microbiome perspective

Much of it only applies to agaricus cultivation, but there is some discussion of microbes and casing soil that could be worth reading.

An excerpt:

Quote:

4.1. Role of the microbiome in mushroom growing media
Mushroom cultivation is different from other horticultural crops in that it is done on a two-component growing media. Firstly, the A. bisporus mycelium is grown through a substrate of aerobically fermented compost (SΓ‘nchez, 2004). Secondly, a layer of peat-based casing soil is applied on top, which provides physical support to the developing sporophores, acts as a water reservoir for the mycelium and prevents compost desiccation (Pardo-GimΓ©nez et al., 2017). Another important microbial function of the casing soil is that it induces fructification of the crop (Baars et al., 2020). Casing soil microbes that have been reported to stimulate mushroom development include, Pseudomonas putida, Bacillus psilocybe Bacillus megaterium, Arthrobacter terregens, Rhizobium metiloff and a blue-green alga, Scenedesmus quadricauda (Godfrey, 2003). These bacteria are speculated to initiate fructification by removing volatile inhibitors of fruiting body formation (Noble et al., 2009). Pseudomonads have received significant attention for their stimulatory effect on sporocarp initiation and development, however, several related Pseudomonas species can also cause bacterial blotch diseases on the mushrooms (Taparia et al., 2020a). Other harmful microorganisms endemic to the casing soil include pathogenic fungi, Mycogone perniciosa and various Trichoderma species, which cause wet bubble disease and green mould disease on the mushrooms respectively (Fletcher and Gaze, 2007).

The casing soil microbiome of the peat and alternatives, not only supplies beneficial microorganisms to induce fructification of the mushrooms, but it also determines the invasion resistance of the community in the event of a pathogen introduction. This invasion resistance is often determined by the diversity of the resident community and the complexity and stability of its interaction network (Mallon et al., 2015; Latz et al., 2012). Resistant microbial communities are known to show high modularity and complexity instead of a compact interaction network (Mendes et al., 2018). Modularity in the network suggests diversity in species roles and functionality, and consequently efficient consumption of available resources (Poudel et al., 2016). Thus, a modular microbial network implies ecological robustness and an ability to maintain community-level interactions despite fluctuations in the member species or the environment. Lack of modular interactions in the soil microbiome could thus increase the success of a pathogen invasion (Wei et al., 2015; van Elsas et al., 2012).





I don't think that the diversity of microbes in casing soils for cubensis or panaeolous really has an effect on yeild. As for contam resistance, I'm not sure.


--------------------
"A thing really exists if it has any capacity at all, either to do something...or to have the smallest thing done to it...I'll take it as a definition that being amounts to nothing other than capacity"

Plato-Sophist 274e


Edited by Phaedo (11/22/22 01:37 PM)


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OfflinePadaone
Mycophage

Registered: 07/03/22
Posts: 66
Last seen: 11 months, 9 days
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Phaedo]
    #28064756 - 11/22/22 01:35 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Contam'd af right?




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Offlinecozmyc
gentle modern ape
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Registered: 06/20/21
Posts: 2,131
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Padaone]
    #28064773 - 11/22/22 01:46 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

If they were all done on the same go, the leftmost jar looks your best bet. What was your method up to this point?


--------------------
You're conscious population 2 stardust
----------------------
and that's valuable :sunny:


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OfflinePadaone
Mycophage

Registered: 07/03/22
Posts: 66
Last seen: 11 months, 9 days
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: cozmyc]
    #28064784 - 11/22/22 01:55 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Agar -> LC -> grain

Except this time I went LC -> LC to expand culture..I think that's where things dun fucked up

There might've been 2 - 3 days between some of them.


Edited by Padaone (11/22/22 01:58 PM)


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InvisibleShrimps
Traveler
I'm a teapot


Registered: 10/13/22
Posts: 2,501
Loc: Under the sea
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Phaedo]
    #28064788 - 11/22/22 01:57 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Phaedo said:
I can't comment on why Stamets isn't popular, as I am also new here.

I just remember reading that many people here routinely correct the outdated information found in TMC. It was written in the 1980s, after all.

But I did find an article you might find interesting, if only to satisfy your curiosity: Circular alternatives to peat in growing media: A microbiome perspective

Much of it only applies to agaricus cultivation, but there is some discussion of microbes and casing soil that could be worth reading.

An excerpt:

Quote:

4.1. Role of the microbiome in mushroom growing media
Mushroom cultivation is different from other horticultural crops in that it is done on a two-component growing media. Firstly, the A. bisporus mycelium is grown through a substrate of aerobically fermented compost (SΓ‘nchez, 2004). Secondly, a layer of peat-based casing soil is applied on top, which provides physical support to the developing sporophores, acts as a water reservoir for the mycelium and prevents compost desiccation (Pardo-GimΓ©nez et al., 2017). Another important microbial function of the casing soil is that it induces fructification of the crop (Baars et al., 2020). Casing soil microbes that have been reported to stimulate mushroom development include, Pseudomonas putida, Bacillus psilocybe Bacillus megaterium, Arthrobacter terregens, Rhizobium metiloff and a blue-green alga, Scenedesmus quadricauda (Godfrey, 2003). These bacteria are speculated to initiate fructification by removing volatile inhibitors of fruiting body formation (Noble et al., 2009). Pseudomonads have received significant attention for their stimulatory effect on sporocarp initiation and development, however, several related Pseudomonas species can also cause bacterial blotch diseases on the mushrooms (Taparia et al., 2020a). Other harmful microorganisms endemic to the casing soil include pathogenic fungi, Mycogone perniciosa and various Trichoderma species, which cause wet bubble disease and green mould disease on the mushrooms respectively (Fletcher and Gaze, 2007).

The casing soil microbiome of the peat and alternatives, not only supplies beneficial microorganisms to induce fructification of the mushrooms, but it also determines the invasion resistance of the community in the event of a pathogen introduction. This invasion resistance is often determined by the diversity of the resident community and the complexity and stability of its interaction network (Mallon et al., 2015; Latz et al., 2012). Resistant microbial communities are known to show high modularity and complexity instead of a compact interaction network (Mendes et al., 2018). Modularity in the network suggests diversity in species roles and functionality, and consequently efficient consumption of available resources (Poudel et al., 2016). Thus, a modular microbial network implies ecological robustness and an ability to maintain community-level interactions despite fluctuations in the member species or the environment. Lack of modular interactions in the soil microbiome could thus increase the success of a pathogen invasion (Wei et al., 2015; van Elsas et al., 2012).





I don't think that the diversity of microbes in casing soils for cubensis or panaeolous really has an effect on yeild. As for contam resistance, I'm not sure.




Thanks for sharing mate! I will look deeper into this :smile:


--------------------
I am not crazy, I prefer the term mentally hillarious.

Agar - The way to go!
Clean spawn checklist
Proper Surface Moisture
Recognizing and dealing with contamination

πŸ…ƒ πŸ„΄ πŸ„° πŸ„Ό    πŸ„² πŸ„» πŸ„Έ πŸ„½ πŸ„Ά πŸ…† πŸ… πŸ„° πŸ„Ώ


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Offlinehazyhorse
scoobin
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Registered: 03/19/19
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Padaone] * 1
    #28064944 - 11/22/22 03:43 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

they all look a little funky to me but yeah one on the left would be your best bet. can always top fruit too


--------------------
you're not the first to set foot here, just another
===================================
i love glass petris & you can too!!
posts i constantly refer back to
new to mushroom cultivation?? read this!!
===================================

πŸ…ƒ πŸ„΄ πŸ„° πŸ„Ό    πŸ„² πŸ„» πŸ„Έ πŸ„½ πŸ„Ά πŸ…† πŸ… πŸ„° πŸ„Ώ


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OfflineSirPsycho
Purple Belt in Google-Fu
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Registered: 01/01/20
Posts: 6,907
Loc: Rent free in your head
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Shrimps] * 1
    #28064951 - 11/22/22 03:46 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Shrimps said:
Quote:

Phaedo said:
I can't comment on why Stamets isn't popular, as I am also new here.

I just remember reading that many people here routinely correct the outdated information found in TMC. It was written in the 1980s, after all.

But I did find an article you might find interesting, if only to satisfy your curiosity: Circular alternatives to peat in growing media: A microbiome perspective

Much of it only applies to agaricus cultivation, but there is some discussion of microbes and casing soil that could be worth reading.

An excerpt:

Quote:

4.1. Role of the microbiome in mushroom growing media
Mushroom cultivation is different from other horticultural crops in that it is done on a two-component growing media. Firstly, the A. bisporus mycelium is grown through a substrate of aerobically fermented compost (SΓ‘nchez, 2004). Secondly, a layer of peat-based casing soil is applied on top, which provides physical support to the developing sporophores, acts as a water reservoir for the mycelium and prevents compost desiccation (Pardo-GimΓ©nez et al., 2017). Another important microbial function of the casing soil is that it induces fructification of the crop (Baars et al., 2020). Casing soil microbes that have been reported to stimulate mushroom development include, Pseudomonas putida, Bacillus psilocybe Bacillus megaterium, Arthrobacter terregens, Rhizobium metiloff and a blue-green alga, Scenedesmus quadricauda (Godfrey, 2003). These bacteria are speculated to initiate fructification by removing volatile inhibitors of fruiting body formation (Noble et al., 2009). Pseudomonads have received significant attention for their stimulatory effect on sporocarp initiation and development, however, several related Pseudomonas species can also cause bacterial blotch diseases on the mushrooms (Taparia et al., 2020a). Other harmful microorganisms endemic to the casing soil include pathogenic fungi, Mycogone perniciosa and various Trichoderma species, which cause wet bubble disease and green mould disease on the mushrooms respectively (Fletcher and Gaze, 2007).

The casing soil microbiome of the peat and alternatives, not only supplies beneficial microorganisms to induce fructification of the mushrooms, but it also determines the invasion resistance of the community in the event of a pathogen introduction. This invasion resistance is often determined by the diversity of the resident community and the complexity and stability of its interaction network (Mallon et al., 2015; Latz et al., 2012). Resistant microbial communities are known to show high modularity and complexity instead of a compact interaction network (Mendes et al., 2018). Modularity in the network suggests diversity in species roles and functionality, and consequently efficient consumption of available resources (Poudel et al., 2016). Thus, a modular microbial network implies ecological robustness and an ability to maintain community-level interactions despite fluctuations in the member species or the environment. Lack of modular interactions in the soil microbiome could thus increase the success of a pathogen invasion (Wei et al., 2015; van Elsas et al., 2012).





I don't think that the diversity of microbes in casing soils for cubensis or panaeolous really has an effect on yeild. As for contam resistance, I'm not sure.




Thanks for sharing mate! I will look deeper into this :smile:



I got a Google Drive link with both of Stamets' cult books and the ID guide along with many many other titles if anyone is interested just PM me.


--------------------
:pm:Ask me about free Ps tampanesis, Ps subtropicalis and Ps cubensis (ESS) prints:pm:
Balance in life is like running on ice.

  πŸ…‘πŸ…žπŸ…£πŸ…£πŸ…›πŸ…” πŸ…–πŸ…πŸ…πŸ…–

"Mist your balls and fan your asshole" - Pandaskis, 2023


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Offlinesmalltalk_canceled
Babnik
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Registered: 07/13/20
Posts: 2,862
Last seen: 13 days, 10 hours
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: SirPsycho] * 2
    #28065011 - 11/22/22 04:45 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Sorry about asking for the link to the PE discussion,
couldnt find it by google search + shroomery, which was weird
its sometimes easier than navigating the search

anyways, got subtropica fruiting from the tiny pepsi cans
but my woodlover project has so far failed this year

lost the apartment i lived it, threat of being sued,
some new flu virus, 100000 fungus gnats

which i have ALL killed

weighs on a man's mind.


--


--------------------
Willpower is the one true virtue



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OfflineMLPismyOPSEC
That One Ponyfucker
I'm a teapot

Registered: 11/13/18
Posts: 884
Loc: Equestria? Mordor? Wester...
Last seen: 11 days, 11 hours
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Padaone] * 1
    #28065082 - 11/22/22 05:36 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

My understanding about Stamets; the long and short of it is that he has done a ton of work to progress mycology but these days he's more businessman than mycologist.

Quote:

Padaone said:
Contam'd af right?




Very bacterial but i've spawned and fruited worse. If you are limited on spawn, send it!


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OfflinePadaone
Mycophage

Registered: 07/03/22
Posts: 66
Last seen: 11 months, 9 days
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: MLPismyOPSEC]
    #28065123 - 11/22/22 06:19 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Thanks guys. Unfortunately I've got a lot of baccy jars then..

I have fruited baccy spawn with decent results (decent as in 2oz from 3 jars rather than no shrooms at all) and was thinking fuck it. I might spawn them and just keep an eye out for the green. They would probably fruit fine outside here tbh.

With top fruiting would semi regular bottom watering be beneficial? I'm thinking that sub only provides water so if I provide the water regularly enough I could mostly emulate a bulk sub.


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Offlineschpat
psychesomadelic
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Registered: 09/26/21
Posts: 1,039
Loc: South Africa
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Padaone] * 7
    #28066692 - 11/23/22 09:17 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Um, did I miss the post your cat pics while I was too busy to check shroomery?  Never mind, I'll catch up.

   

First cat is serious cat, second cat is goofy cat, third cat is handsome birthday cat


--------------------


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InvisibleShrimps
Traveler
I'm a teapot


Registered: 10/13/22
Posts: 2,501
Loc: Under the sea
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: schpat]
    #28066797 - 11/23/22 11:00 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

schpat said:
Um, did I miss the post your cat pics while I was too busy to check shroomery?  Never mind, I'll catch up.

   

First cat is serious cat, second cat is goofy cat, third cat is handsome birthday cat





The one in the middle is sooo cuddly <3


--------------------
I am not crazy, I prefer the term mentally hillarious.

Agar - The way to go!
Clean spawn checklist
Proper Surface Moisture
Recognizing and dealing with contamination

πŸ…ƒ πŸ„΄ πŸ„° πŸ„Ό    πŸ„² πŸ„» πŸ„Έ πŸ„½ πŸ„Ά πŸ…† πŸ… πŸ„° πŸ„Ώ


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InvisiblePickle Rick
Gherkin
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 07/24/22
Posts: 864
Loc: Jar
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Padaone]
    #28066825 - 11/23/22 11:35 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Padaone said:
Contam'd af right?





I'm pretty new, but I see no signs of contam. Not sure why the presence of moisture is considered to be bacterial. Just read another post where there was a similar discussion. Most commenters told the op that it was bacterial and unlikely to produce well.. it did.

From my own experience (which is virtually non existent - 1 grow, 3 tubs), all my bags are "sweaty" after colonization. 1 tub I messed up, but the other two gave generously for a few flushes. Not saying there's nothing I could be doing to refine my technique... but I'm not sure a "sweaty" grain spawn bag/jar in itself is a sign of contam


--------------------
P i c k l e    R i c k :dancer:



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