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SirPsycho
Purple Belt in Google-Fu



Registered: 01/01/20
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Farm3r] 3
#27967375 - 09/25/22 11:10 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
p9hu7 said:
Instant pots are not appropriate for grain; maybe you can get away with liquid media? Still though...
Like I said, liquids.
They're not using them for grain sterilization.
Listen man, maybe liquids is what I said
Can work for liquid media, is what I said
Also, in terms of an instapot functioning as an autoclave:
Autoclaves have very specific design features that allow them to be effective against viruses, diseases, and most notably in our case: thermophilic bacterial endospores.
A 23 quart presto can be used as an autoclave because it shares many of those design features. Autoclaves are capable of :
Maintaining even an even working temperature across all surfaces, this is critical due to the way surfaces interact with internal gases, cold spots will cause an autoclave to fail verification due to the insulative properties of cool trapped gases; this is tested via Bowie-Dick test;
An instant pot is not capable of this.
Purge cycle:
Autoclaves and prestos require purging of trapped atmospheric gases in order to reach an appropriate internal temperature, if this is not completed the pressure guage will give a faulty temperature reading which will mean that your load will not sterilize completely;(major reason why instapots fail at cult work)
Instant pots are not ccapable of this.
Autoclaves can sustain operating temperature and pressure for the appropriate time frame: minimum 15psi for a MIN 90 mins. The R value of grains is quite high, load penwtration requires long exposures. More is more, less is less.
Instant pot....
There's nothing eletist about knowing how shit works.
Liquid media is liquid, water is highly conductive and instruments are considered a very light load. You can get away with agar and LC broth, but still, don't.
Maybe you can run liquids in an instant pot, producing clean spawn on the otherhand....
Another mod on the shroomery discord server has tested the instant pot with biological indicator in a pint grain jar ran for 4 hours. She works in an AIDS lab.
Guess what...
It failed to sterilize.
Instant pots can sterilize liquid media, is not suitable for grains due to load density and bioburden.
Why? Because it doesn't actually function like an autoclave.
They have been tested, instant pots are good at sterilizing Geobacillus stearothermophilus spores in liquid media, 4 hours in pint jars renders no effect on the biological ampule indicators used in an actual lab.
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0208769
Instant pots are capable of sterilizing light loads like liquids.
Instant pots are not capable of load penetration, this has been tested by Lynari who works as safety officer in a biological laboratory that specializes in AIDS work.
She ran a single pint jar with this biological indicator in it's center, ampule contains a known bioburden of Geobacillus Stearothermophilus spores; The unit failed verification.
I said that they are capable of destroying Geobacillus stearothermophilus spores, IN LIQUID media. That provided link is saying that the pot was better than other others at sterilizing high-titer microbial cultures...liquids, liquids are highly conductive, hydrated grains are not.
Hydrated grains have an R value exponentially greater than liquid, this is why liquids can be sterilized in 20 mins as apposed to 90+ mins due to load density.
I mean, I really do not understand the controvery or the inabilty to grasp the provided information.
Liquids are easiest; Instruments next; Then clothing materials; Etc, etc.
Hydrated cereal grains have a very high bioburden by comparison due to the nature of how and where they're cultivated and how they are processed and stored.
The bioburden of agar powder and malt powders will not even come close to the density of CFUs found on the surface of cereal grains.
Electric yogurt pots can sterilize liquids, they are not effective for anything else because they're not designed to function as an autoclave.
Bacterial endospores are the only reson you want to use an autoclave.
They are not effective at killimg the population in grains;
Liquids contain the same endospores, can be used on liquids.
He's been saying the same thing thought-out. Ok for liquid although he does not want to recommend it even for that.
Not ok for solid media.
Because it doesn't vent and allow steam to build up thus resulting in pockets of gasses trapped in there which are equivalent to dry sterilization which is not as effective as steam sterilization
Quote:
Farm3r said:
But if it can't be vented it's a fucking bomb so....
I don't believe it can be allowed to vent steam before putting the rocker on as with a regular pressure cooker. They do have a pop up relief valve though so it doesn't turn into a bomb
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Ask me about free Ps tampanesis, Ps subtropicalis and Ps cubensis (ESS) prints Balance in life is like running on ice.
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    "Mist your balls and fan your asshole" - Pandaskis, 2023
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Farm3r
Human



Registered: 05/04/21
Posts: 535
Loc: River of the West
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: SirPsycho]
#27967382 - 09/25/22 11:18 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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No, at first he said they have no application, period. See above post. This is the point.
And they will sterilize grains, he has no reason to believe they don't, he just assumes. That's besides the point.
Well then you can manually open the relief prior to adding pressure...?
And really if they couldn't be vented, they wouldn't work for anything very well.
Edited by Farm3r (09/25/22 11:20 AM)
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SirPsycho
Purple Belt in Google-Fu



Registered: 01/01/20
Posts: 6,907
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Farm3r]
#27967398 - 09/25/22 11:32 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Farm3r said: No, at first he said they have no application, period. See above post. This is the point.
And they will sterilize grains, he has no reason to believe they don't, he just assumes. That's besides the point.
Well then you can manually open the relief prior to adding pressure...?
And really if they couldn't be vented, they wouldn't work for anything very well.
Quote:
p9hu7 said: So, just fyi guys....that chart is useless.
Instant pots are not appropriate for grain; maybe you can get away with liquid media? Still though...
Instant pot's are not appropriate equipment for microbiology, period. Do not buy an instant pot hoping that it will work as an autoclave. You will not find an instant pot in a hospital, dentists office tattoo parlor, mycology/microbiology lab etc.
Why?
Because they're for making soup, yogurt, etc. They're are not suitable for the purpose of effectively destroying thermophilic bacterial endospores.
Is this the comment in question?
He's admitted that it can in liquid media in that very comment, he even provided a link that says so later and acknowledged that he did.
You're taking the final sentence as a standalone completely divorced from the rest of he comment or his numerous attempts to concede the liquid media point.
He did say it was tested with solid media and failed. You're right to ask for solid proof of that though.
I don't think the emergency relief valve can be pushed back down until the unit has cooled but I'm not sure.
It's effective at cooking without the need to vent. Steam is only necessary for sterilizing solid media because water vapor has higher specific heat capacity and heat transfer coefficients than just air. Liquid media will still reach the same temps under pressure regardless of steam or no steam in the rest of the pc.
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Ask me about free Ps tampanesis, Ps subtropicalis and Ps cubensis (ESS) prints Balance in life is like running on ice.
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Farm3r] 1
#27967401 - 09/25/22 11:33 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
p9hu7 said: Instant pots are not appropriate for grain; maybe you can get away with liquid media? Still though...
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27967028#27967028
One more time.
Quote:
Four commonly available brands of pressure cooker were tested for their ability to sterilize microbiological media, a variety of metal instruments, and high-titer microbial cultures
High-titer microbial cultures are propagated liquid media, all microbial media will be grown on liquid media or be present in ampules, with exception of metal instruments wich sterilize in the same time frame as liquids.
This conversation has reached bizarre proportions
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Smellyhobbit
Actual Retard



Registered: 04/01/22
Posts: 11,171
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Nichrome] 2
#27967411 - 09/25/22 11:38 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Doesnβt that just hurt me in a peculiar way. Iβm so much better, but sometimes you read something that makes you feel bad for the you you used to be.
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Farm3r
Human



Registered: 05/04/21
Posts: 535
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Smellyhobbit]
#27967418 - 09/25/22 11:44 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Let's put it this way. Theyres a reason "your friend" "tested" it inside grains with a bio strip. A "scientists", right?
And until I see some proof like that, everyone will just have to hope right?
He literally said "maybe", then "microbiology period", right after. It's just muddying waters really. He's the one who made this a big deal.
And that link he used as a reference came wayy later in the discussion. And has nothing to do with grains, which is where we were at at that point in the discussion. That article does not disprove it's efficiency on grains.
Edited by Farm3r (09/25/22 11:47 AM)
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SirPsycho
Purple Belt in Google-Fu



Registered: 01/01/20
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Farm3r] 1
#27967430 - 09/25/22 11:51 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Farm3r said: Let's put it this way. Theyres a reason "your friend" "tested" it inside grains with a bio strip. A "scientists", right?
And until I see some proof like that, everyone will just have to hope right?
You're right about that, I agreed with you in my previous comment. Actual proof of this experiment would be great.
Quote:
Farm3r said: He literally said "microbiology period", right after. It's just muddying waters really. He's the one who made this a big deal.
You're right, he did. That was his recommendation though, he later clarified again that it was capable for liquid media but he still does not recommend.
Everyone that continued to respond, including myself are all responsible for this conversation turning into what it did. We could have all chosen to shut up at one point but we didn't for various reasons.
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Rusty2096
rah rah raw in Lady gaga



Registered: 08/23/22
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Inocuole] 5
#27967434 - 09/25/22 11:54 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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I, personally, can't stop simply because:
-------------------- Currently looking for nothing. You guys who sent me stuff are straight up awesome!. We don't own things - things own us. Semi-solid liquid culture (SSLC)
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Farm3r]
#27967439 - 09/25/22 11:57 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Listen man....It's my personal opinion that instant pots have no place in mushroom cultivation, why? Because if you already have a presto then why use an instant pot; IF you have an instant pot then ONLY USE for LIQUIDS!
The article posted references LIQUID media, I posted the link for that purpose.
The "friend" didn't use a test strip. This person is a credentialed lab technician in an AIDS research laboratory and used a biological indicator amp, they are a TC and a mod over in our discord channel.
This:

This ampule contains a known bioburden of Geobacillus Stearothermophilus ~106 endospores. It was placed in a pint jar of hydrated grain, this is reasonable because it is the exact load that should be tested.
She ran this test in her laboratory, the jar was run for 4 hours and failed to sterilize the biological indicator.
These indicators are used to verify autoclaves.
The result indicates that if the indicator was left naked it likely would have sterilized as per the provided link; when introduced to a complex/dense load like hydrated grains, the grains had sufficient R value to insulate the test ampule against sterilization.
Grains will reduce the efficiency of your sterilizer.
Our sterilization cycle runs 121Β°C for 2 hours.
Edited by Stipe-n Cap (09/25/22 12:06 PM)
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rumfor69
Bodhicitta Cultivator



Registered: 08/05/11
Posts: 6,767
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Smellyhobbit] 5
#27967453 - 09/25/22 12:03 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Smellyhobbit said: Doesnβt that just hurt me in a peculiar way. Iβm so much better, but sometimes you read something that makes you feel bad for the you you used to be.
I love what you said here. I definitely experience this often. I was so terrible to that me, and he suffered so much. I found peace, am increasing my mental capacity so I can not just be better to myself, but to others as well.
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Screwup
Googles your dumb questions


Registered: 01/27/22
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: rumfor69] 1
#27967486 - 09/25/22 12:22 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Man yβall some ho ass bitches. Discuss.
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Nichrome
I'm a torso!


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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Smellyhobbit] 1
#27967488 - 09/25/22 12:25 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Smellyhobbit said: Doesnβt that just hurt me in a peculiar way. Iβm so much better, but sometimes you read something that makes you feel bad for the you you used to be.
-------------------- βBetter to be deprived of food for three days, than tea for one.β
Freedom is not the right to do as you please, but the liberty to do as you should. ~Emerson
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Smellyhobbit
Actual Retard



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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Screwup]
#27967498 - 09/25/22 12:35 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Screwup said: Man yβall some ho ass bitches. Discuss.
I love you.
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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Smellyhobbit] 2
#27967522 - 09/25/22 12:52 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Jesus this is a shit show.
If yoj dont think an instant pot can work for grains, just asa AKA and find out youre wrong.
Lotta opinions from people who havent used it. By the way you can vent it my wife uses one all the time for rice.
P9- youre the one who brought it to this thread so it's ironic that you call it a dead horse and act lkke youre being bated. Super petty behavior dude.
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: natedawgnow]
#27967524 - 09/25/22 12:55 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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You guys are seriously defending instant pots for grains, and calling me petty for clearly articulating why that shouldn't be the case....
Starting to sound like reddit here.
Anyways, fun "discussion."
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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#27967527 - 09/25/22 12:58 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Im not defending anything. I wouldnt use on if you paid me.
What I AM doing is refuting your statements made in the quick questions thread which are proveably false.
If i was an interested grower that wanted 1 sheobox a month and already had an instant pot i wouldnt buy a presto.
Not everyone is trying to grow weight dude. Not everyone needs 2 cadco burners and multiple pcs for the hobby.
Point is your statement was wrong suck my butt
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Smellyhobbit
Actual Retard



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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Inocuole] 3
#27967530 - 09/25/22 01:00 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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βSuck my buttβ
Well thatβs the discussion, boys.
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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Smellyhobbit] 2
#27967536 - 09/25/22 01:02 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Humor is lost in this thread I guess
Serious business this internet stuff is
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Smellyhobbit
Actual Retard



Registered: 04/01/22
Posts: 11,171
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Inocuole]
#27967540 - 09/25/22 01:04 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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I dunno I though it was funny.
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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Smellyhobbit]
#27967548 - 09/25/22 01:08 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Ok cool we're cool then everythings cool
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