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OfflineFarm3r
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Stipe-n Cap] * 2
    #27967226 - 09/25/22 09:21 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

p9hu7 said:
I guess you cant read very well, I described it in great detail.

Instant pots can sterilize liquid media, is not suitable for grains due to load density and bioburden.

Why? Because it doesn't actually function like an autoclave.

They have been tested, instant pots are good at sterilizing Geobacillus stearothermophilus spores in liquid media, 4 hours in pint jars renders no effect on the biological ampule indicators used in an actual lab.




No you didn't, you described what you believe to be happening in great detail.

You haven't demonstrated uneven temperature surfaces.


You haven't demonstrated it's inability to purge.

You haven't demonstrated it's inability to hold 15psi consistently.

We haven't even decided which models were talking about and you have all the answers lol.



Load density and bioburden have nothing to do with it if you have a small grain jar. It's just it's about to do these things listed above for a certain amount of time.





Where have they been tested. Prove it.  By your buddy on discord, no. Prove it.


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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: cozmyc]
    #27967231 - 09/25/22 09:24 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Four commonly available brands of pressure cooker were tested for their ability to sterilize microbiological media, a variety of metal instruments, and high-titer microbial cultures.

All four pressure cookers were able to sterilize these starting materials as well as a range of microbial types, including Gram-positive bacteria, Gram-negative bacteria, filamentous fungi, unicellular fungi, and mixed environmental samples.

Only the Instant Pot, however, was able to sterilize autoclave tester ampoules of Geobacillus stearothermophilus spores.

(Naked ampules, not burried in a dense load like grain) These results suggest that, depending on the nature of the work undertaken, store-bought pressure cookers can be an appropriate substitute for commercial autoclaves. Their adoption may also help increase the accessibility of science to a broader range of investigators.




https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0208769

Instant pots are capable of sterilizing light loads like liquids.

Instant pots are not capable of load penetration, this has been tested by Lynari who works as safety officer in a biological laboratory that specializes in AIDS work.

She ran a single pint jar with this biological indicator in it's center, ampule contains a known bioburden of Geobacillus Stearothermophilus spores;
The unit failed verification.

Quote:

Farm3r said:
Load density and bioburden have nothing to do with it if you have a small grain jar. It's just it's about to do these things listed above for a certain amount of time.

Where have they been tested. Prove it.  By your buddy on discord, no. Prove it.




Clearly you do not understand the mechanisms that govern sterility assurance.


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OfflineFarm3r
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #27967237 - 09/25/22 09:32 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

All four pressure cookers were able to sterilize these starting materials as well as a range of microbial types, including Gram-positive bacteria, Gram-negative bacteria, filamentous fungi, unicellular fungi, and mixed environmental samples. Only the Instant Pot, however, was able to sterilize autoclave tester ampoules of Geobacillus stearothermophilus spores. These results suggest that, depending on the nature of the work undertaken, store-bought pressure cookers can be an appropriate substitute for commercial autoclaves. Their adoption may also help increase the accessibility of science to a broader range of investigators.

That's from your link you provided. Saying they work fine.

That link is literally proving you wrong.




Where do you get this term penetration?
Grains have moisture inside the bags or jars which produce steam themselves, unlike tools, and ate under pressure. No penetration from the produced steam is necessary as the bags or jars act as micro vessels, under pressure, with the presence of steam.
There is no "penetration" in canning. Your grains are mostly water. Think about that





"Instant pots are not capable of load penetration, this has been tested by Lynari who works as safety officer in a biological laboratory that specializes in AIDS work.

She ran a single pint jar with this biological indicator in it's center, ampule contains a known bioburden of Geobacillus Stearothermophilus spores;
The unit failed verification."



Who? Prove it man. Never heard of them.

And that's weird because it says specifically the instapot was able to do that I. The link you provided.




Edited by Farm3r (09/25/22 09:38 AM)


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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Farm3r]
    #27967251 - 09/25/22 09:41 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Autoclave verification:

https://www.pharmaguideline.com/2011/01/autoclave-validation.html?m=1

Sterility assurance/Log reduction:

https://www.pharmaguideline.com/2013/12/log-reduction-and-sterility-assurance-level-sal.html?m=1

Links can be found on the subject hyperlinked in my thread on the subject of endospore destruction amd autoclaves:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27376048

I think I've supplied enough detailed information on the topic.

If people want to run grains in an instant pot then have at er, it really doesn't matter in the end.

Have a nice afternoon cult.


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OfflineFarm3r
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Stipe-n Cap] * 1
    #27967258 - 09/25/22 09:46 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Bro you've got to be kidding me. I know what bacterial indicator strips are and what SAL is.

Quote:

Farm3r said:


No you didn't, you described what you believe to be happening in great detail.

You haven't demonstrated uneven temperature surfaces.


You haven't demonstrated it's inability to purge.

You haven't demonstrated it's inability to hold 15psi consistently.

We haven't even decided which models were talking about and you have all the answers lol.



Load density and bioburden have nothing to do with it if you have a small grain jar. It's just it's about to do these things listed above for a certain amount of time.





Where have they been tested. Prove it.  By your buddy on discord, no. Prove it.





Prove to me the instapot doesn't meet the qualifications.

Reread where I pointed out that your link goes against what you were saying initially anyways.


Prove that that random person your talking about did that test

And I told you, the grains produce the steam necessary




Don't just change topic. Wtf.


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OfflineSirPsycho
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Farm3r] * 4
    #27967260 - 09/25/22 09:48 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

:popcorn:


--------------------
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OfflineRusty2096
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Inocuole]
    #27967274 - 09/25/22 09:59 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

:popcorn::popcorn: (I'll have 2 popcorn bags just in case this goes on for a while)


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Invisiblemind.at.large
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Rusty2096]
    #27967285 - 09/25/22 10:05 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Umm excuse me but my instant pot/air fryer combo is one of my favorite kitchen gadgets! Oooh the bomb foods I have made in that thing. Even with its questionable sterilization, it really does make the tastiest grains you can ever think of. In fact, I think I’m going to cook myself a nice jar of whole wheat for breakfast this lovely Sunday morning. Bon appetit!


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Invisiblenatedawgnow
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Stipe-n Cap] * 1
    #27967298 - 09/25/22 10:13 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

p9hu7 said:
Quote:

Four commonly available brands of pressure cooker were tested for their ability to sterilize microbiological media, a variety of metal instruments, and high-titer microbial cultures.

All four pressure cookers were able to sterilize these starting materials as well as a range of microbial types, including Gram-positive bacteria, Gram-negative bacteria, filamentous fungi, unicellular fungi, and mixed environmental samples.

Only the Instant Pot, however, was able to sterilize autoclave tester ampoules of Geobacillus stearothermophilus spores.

(Naked ampules, not burried in a dense load like grain) These results suggest that, depending on the nature of the work undertaken, store-bought pressure cookers can be an appropriate substitute for commercial autoclaves. Their adoption may also help increase the accessibility of science to a broader range of investigators.




https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0208769

Instant pots are capable of sterilizing light loads like liquids.

Instant pots are not capable of load penetration, this has been tested by Lynari who works as safety officer in a biological laboratory that specializes in AIDS work.

She ran a single pint jar with this biological indicator in it's center, ampule contains a known bioburden of Geobacillus Stearothermophilus spores;
The unit failed verification.

Quote:

Farm3r said:
Load density and bioburden have nothing to do with it if you have a small grain jar. It's just it's about to do these things listed above for a certain amount of time.

Where have they been tested. Prove it.  By your buddy on discord, no. Prove it.




Clearly you do not understand the mechanisms that govern sterility assurance.



Dude your link literally says the instant pot works and even out performed the other 3 cookers in the sterilization of a specific organisms spores.

Quote:

Only the Instant Pot, however, was able to sterilize autoclave tester ampoules of Geobacillus stearothermophilus spores. These results suggest that, depending on the nature of the work undertaken, store-bought pressure cookers can be an appropriate substitute for commercial autoclaves. Their adoption may also help increase the accessibility of science to a broader range of investigators.




Thats right from the abstract.

Short answer, they work but they're not ideal. If you have one and want to start a small grow, sure. If you want to get into the hobby and are thinking of buying one for cult, dont do it. Buy a presto or similar pc.


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Invisiblemilkboy
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: SirPsycho]
    #27967303 - 09/25/22 10:16 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

SirPsycho said:
:popcorn:



:camping:


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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: natedawgnow] * 1
    #27967316 - 09/25/22 10:22 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Guy's you're not reading...

I said that they are capable of destroying
Geobacillus stearothermophilus spores, IN LIQUID media. That provided link is saying that the pot was better than other others at sterilizing high-titer microbial cultures...liquids, liquids are highly conductive, hydrated grains are not.

Hydrated grains have an R value exponentially greater than liquid, this is why liquids can be sterilized in 20 mins as apposed to 90+ mins due to load density.

I mean, I really do not understand the controvery or the inabilty to grasp the provided information.

Liquids are easiest;
Instruments next;
Then clothing materials;
Etc, etc.

Hydrated cereal grains have a very high bioburden by comparison due to the nature of how and where they're cultivated and how they are processed and stored.

The bioburden of agar powder and malt powders will not even come close to the density of CFUs found on the surface of cereal grains.

Seriously, smh.

Electric yogurt pots can sterilize liquids, they are not effective for anything else  because they're not designed to function as an autoclave.

This should be self evident.


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OfflineFarm3r
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #27967325 - 09/25/22 10:31 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Whoa.

Let's take a step back. The only reason I'm talking to you is this.


Quote:

p9hu7 said:


Instant pot's are not appropriate equipment for microbiology, period. Do not buy an instant pot hoping that it will work as an autoclave. You will not find an instant pot in a hospital, dentists office  tattoo parlor, mycology/microbiology lab  etc.

Why?

Because they're for making soup, yogurt, etc. They're are not suitable for the purpose of effectively destroying thermophilic bacterial endospores.






From the quick questions quick answer thread.



Btw:

Quote:

Farm3r said:
All four pressure cookers were able to sterilize these starting materials as well as a range of microbial types, including Gram-positive bacteria, Gram-negative bacteria, filamentous fungi, unicellular fungi, and mixed environmental samples. Only the Instant Pot, however, was able to sterilize autoclave tester ampoules of Geobacillus stearothermophilus spores. These results suggest that, depending on the nature of the work undertaken, store-bought pressure cookers can be an appropriate substitute for commercial autoclaves. Their adoption may also help increase the accessibility of science to a broader range of investigators.

That's from your link you provided. Saying they work fine.

Making it suitable for a wide range of applications actually.



And now you say this.






Quote:

p9hu7 said:
Guy's you're not reading...

I said that they are capable of destroying
Geobacillus stearothermophilus spores, IN LIQUID media. That provided link is saying that the pot was better than other others at sterilizing high-titer microbial cultures...liquids, liquids are highly conductive, hydrated grains are not.

...







I'm done arguing with you.

I never advocated for soaking your grains either btw, just it's value for the communities evolution.

Not did you prove that your friend did that test with the bio strips.

So you can argue whatever you want. I think those two quotes above summarize what I was getting at.


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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Farm3r]
    #27967330 - 09/25/22 10:35 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Bacterial endospores are the only reson you want to use an autoclave.

They are not effective at killimg the population in grains;

Liquids contain the same endospores, can be used on liquids.

At this point I feel like it really is a dead horse and I'm just being bated into further replies.

Whatever.


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OfflineFarm3r
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #27967332 - 09/25/22 10:36 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

A instapot will kill them! It gets to 15psi! Just like a presto! Exactly like a presto as far as I can tell.

Endospores and thermophiles/thermolific bacterias like the geothermus.. die at at the same temperature


Edited by Farm3r (09/25/22 10:37 AM)


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Invisiblemilkboy
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Farm3r]
    #27967334 - 09/25/22 10:38 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

P9 has been saying the same thing the whole time :lol: There is only one person whos walking back their statements and thats you. This is a discussion thread, no one is arguing but you.


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OfflineFarm3r
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: milkboy]
    #27967336 - 09/25/22 10:39 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

What am I walking back?
A presto is just like SOME instapots, prove me wrong.

The article he linked said that.

What?


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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Farm3r]
    #27967338 - 09/25/22 10:41 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

It doesn't say anything of the kind.

You have failed to grasp literally everything discussed here. I will leave you to it.

Going back to discord, lol.


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OfflineNichrome
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Farm3r] * 6
    #27967341 - 09/25/22 10:47 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

There is no immediate emergency here and therefore there is no need to exist in a panicked state. Adrenaline is typically for emergencies and should not be used as a staple neurotransmitter in place of serotonin and other similar things. Adrenaline negates the effect of oxytocin which is very important and is responsible in part for the feeling of comfort, satisfaction, ease, home, and love...

Some of us experience prolonged periods of time in our lives where we have to "survive", sometimes for many years at a time, in dangerous life or death scenarios. It is very hard to retrain the body after certain experiences to not release and rely upon adrenaline as a response to even minor stimulation, like a conversation a few feet away in your peripheral or the sonud of tinking glass or metal, or even certain smells, colors, and thoughts. Sometimes it takes a lot of conscious effort over many years to reprogram the bodies chemical responses to stimulation after such experiences.

There is no emergency here. Everything is ok. I love you guys.


--------------------
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OfflineRusty2096
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Inocuole] * 2
    #27967342 - 09/25/22 10:47 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Question (I do not have much xp nor want no part in this heated discussion, I just legit have a question about it):

Isn't the difference between an autoclave (and Presto or PC) and an insta pot the fact that a PC can be vented, therefore achieving the right temperature at 15 PSI AND hold that 15 PSI vs where the insta pot may reach 15 PSI but won't hold it and cannot be vented, hence the insta pot 15 PSI being colder than inside a Presto/PC/Autoclave?

In the end, in the OP that discussion originated from, the guy mentioned getting it for 20$. I assume he's gonna try it, adjust cooking time accordingly and upgrade to a PC/Autoclave if/when he feels the need to or have the financial means?


--------------------
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OfflineFarm3r
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Stipe-n Cap] * 3
    #27967348 - 09/25/22 10:50 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Clearly you are misinterpreting it. If you don't feel like talking about it that's fine, but if you felt it necessary to come and repost and continue the convo, well that's just confusing.

The article does say that. If it will kill the most heat resistant bacteria, is will kill endospores, that's why that specific bacteria is used in biological indicator strips to begin with, because it is the ultimate test.

And clearly that article demonstrates that it does, and that it has a broad range of applications.



So here I am, thinking this is the discussion sections. But what is going on here?






Nowhere does it say it won't kill endospores, and again, that bacteria is more resilient than a common endospores, as why they use it.


The article is clear. And people use them with efficiency here on the site, like I mentioned, AKA and Chron have used them.

They're not ideal for grains cause who wants to sterilzxe 1 jar at a time. It performs just like a presto. Nowhere in the article did it say it wouldn't work for grains, they simply didn't trial it because it isn't feasible size wise.
It's preferred for tools and liquid medias because they're small.

Simple as that bro. And nothing you've said contradicts that. And I haven't backtracked anything. I had 1 simple point to begin with.

And I don't feel like I've deserved this hostility.


So if this is what you do on discord, please go back there, cause I'm partially offended and was just trying to have a scientific talk with someone who I thought was suppose to be regarded as intellectual.





I assume a instapot can be vented lol. If I'm wrong there, P9 is right.

But if it can't be vented it's a fucking bomb so....


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