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Offlinenektar61S
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: MOUSIE]
    #27823370 - 06/16/22 11:10 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MOUSIE said:
Quote:

MOUSIE said:
Don’t know what to do from here…contam is coming, I can see it🤬🤬🤬 … LMEA premix Rak media, steamed for 1hr 45m then poured in front of diy flow hood...yeah, I know. I got a SAB too though, that’s what I took the pics in.  All MSS, PE6 and JohnAllen, put to agar on 6/9. What do I transfer if anything 😔



I see one lil dot forming under agar on three plates…





Welcome a second opinion here, but I don't see anything worth saving. the plates you poured look great. I'd pour new ones, let them sit a week sealed to make sure no contam in the pour. During that week I'd go back to basics here and read as much as you can. Also get a swab instead of a syringe, then try again with better technique.

That one part of the big one I mentioned MIGHT have something you can transfer away from. Worth a try. Do that and post the transfer again in a few days. I'd take 3 transfers and send to 3 plates.

I sent you some links, I'd also look for beginner teks by TCs (trusted cultivators) here and follow them to the letter.

Make an SAB or if you have one, make sure you spray iso alcohol in it 10 min before using. Use flame sterilized scalpel, re-flame before each transfer. Keep it away from the alcohol and never use it in the SAB. Use butane brazing torch or similar. Alcohol lamp if you can't afford that.

Walk us through everything you do, maybe something will jump out for us.

Start over on the Agar Envy thread, more likely to get answers there. This is more of a chat thread here.


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OfflineNichrome
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Wall.E]
    #27823391 - 06/16/22 11:26 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Wall.E said:
We’ll eventually hit that point, but I think fungus is a lot more resilient than most people wanna give credit to




:awemush:


--------------------
Better to be deprived of food for three days, than tea for one.


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OfflineNichrome
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: MOUSIE] * 2
    #27823393 - 06/16/22 11:29 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MOUSIE said:
Don’t know what to do from here…contam is coming, I can see it🤬🤬🤬 … LMEA premix Rak media, steamed for 1hr 45m then poured in front of diy flow hood...yeah, I know. I got a SAB too though, that’s what I took the pics in.  All MSS, PE6 and JohnAllen, put to agar on 6/9. What do I transfer if anything 😔




All I see is contamination there if your target species is P. cubensis. None of that looks like cube.

Time to start over.


--------------------
Better to be deprived of food for three days, than tea for one.


Freedom is not the right to do as you please, but the liberty to do as you should. ~Emerson


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OfflineMOUSIE
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Nichrome]
    #27823399 - 06/16/22 11:32 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Nichrome said:
Quote:

MOUSIE said:
Don’t know what to do from here…contam is coming, I can see it🤬🤬🤬 … LMEA premix Rak media, steamed for 1hr 45m then poured in front of diy flow hood...yeah, I know. I got a SAB too though, that’s what I took the pics in.  All MSS, PE6 and JohnAllen, put to agar on 6/9. What do I transfer if anything 😔




All I see is contamination there if your target species is P. cubensis. None of that looks like cube.

Time to start over.



Damn…
🤬


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InvisibleSwabMarleyS
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: MOUSIE] * 1
    #27823536 - 06/17/22 02:26 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Yeah I think senescence was definitely overhyped. I for one am gunna start experimenting a lot more with clone of clones and so on. Starting this morning! Gunna take a clone of a clone PG culture
:shocked:


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InvisibleWall.E
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Healing Oakland] * 1
    #27823637 - 06/17/22 05:00 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Healing Oakland said:
Quote:

Wall.E said:
Because they’re different kingdoms?




The fungi kingdom is the kingdom in question, there are not different kingdoms for different kinds of of fungi




I thought you were comparing mushrooms to weed, my bad. I know there aren’t different kingdoms of fungi

I also don’t know anyone who has experienced real senescence with shrooms and that includes people who have been growing for decades.

I think senescence is a fun word to say that makes people sound smart and is an easy scapegoat for when shit goes wrong.

I think time will tell us more about senescence with enigma like nektar has been saying. If enigma cultures start going to shit then it might be real, but who knows how resilient it is because of all the genetic mutations.


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OfflineAdas
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: nektar61] * 1
    #27824148 - 06/17/22 12:52 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

nektar61 said:
Quote:

Healing Oakland said:
Definitely worth a little more research. Does anyone have an answer for why people say grain expansion and cloning repeatedly would create senescence if it is a modular organism?




I'd love to hear if anyone here has experienced senescence degradation with shrooms first hand, or if it's just rumors.

I had a clone colony that got embedded mold, it took me over ten generations of transfers to get it clean again, and it grew fine and was as potent as at the start.

I wonder if the "successive clones will cause senescence" is just an assumption, based on something people read about something else and assuming it applies here, when maybe it does not.

For instance: if you go back 20 years in the posts here, there are some people using peptone in agar. Yet no one growing fat tubs now uses it. I assume someone 20 years ago took a first-year college biology class, used peptone agar to grow bacteria, and figured it was something that would help with shrooms (when it might just help grow bacteria!)

Same with using coffee in shroom grows. Not used anymore, and probably just was used because it's sometimes used in gardening plants, so someone thought it would help with shrooms.

Same with gypsum. A very few star growers and TCs do use it, but probably from inertia of having used it back when they started. Most star growers and TCs here do not use it anymore 

I bet it got used 20 years ago because someone had used it previously in growing roses, and thought it would help here.

I'm wondering if the same thing is true with the "successive clones will cause senescence" thing that's constantly repeated here. Might be old wives tale based on no fact that is still said over and over.




It is definitely real, but the speed at which it happens depends heavily on the species. Woodlovers are generally not very prone to it - you may not experience that in your lifetime. However, things like Cordyceps have to be continually started again from spores. Cordy is notorious for going senescent. Panaeolus spp. also senesce easily and quickly, many of us have experienced it with Pan Cyan. Even just storing them in the fridge damages the culture somehow. The mechanisms may not be known, but the effect is real nonetheless.

Cherry on top: I have personally had a REISHI culture go senescent before my eyes. Yes, you read that right, motherfucking REISHI - which most people wouldn't even believe could get to that point. But the culture must have been so "overused" at the point I've gotten it, that after a couple of months it just stopped growing. I've had a beautiful grain jar colonizing, and then all of a sudden it just hit a FULL STOP. Zero contams or anything else, it just stopped. The cells literally couldn't divide anymore. It also kinda came out of nowhere, I didn't see it coming.

Senescence is very real.


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Offlinenektar61S
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Wall.E]
    #27824151 - 06/17/22 12:54 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Wall.E said:
I also don’t know anyone who has experienced real senescence with shrooms and that includes people who have been growing for decades.

I think senescence is a fun word to say that makes people sound smart and is an easy scapegoat for when shit goes wrong.






I think we have a winner with these statements. At least for cubes.


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OfflineHealing Oakland
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Adas]
    #27824295 - 06/17/22 03:02 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Hey Adas! Thanks for popping in for our little discussion! I thought this subject would have had more people/TCs chiming in frankly.

Quote:

Healing Oakland said:
While the fungal kingdom is comprised of various species, they are all modular organisms and should therefore follow the same/similar rules as such right?

I would really like if someone could site sources for cubes (or other similar species of mushrooms) being subject to 'unitary body plan' rules for senescence, and under what circumstances etc, when it is a 'modular body plan' organism.






:begger::twocents:  ?


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Offlineshinear
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Healing Oakland]
    #27824324 - 06/17/22 03:28 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

newb question.

I have seen several post on hybrid and mixed genetics, has anyone
may a guide or a tek to start the process....do I just dump two different agar plates in a jar and wait? (was going to try that)

It may be beyond my pay grade but other than growing different mushies it seems to be an logical and most interesting continuation of this hobby.


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Offlinenektar61S
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: shinear] * 1
    #27824427 - 06/17/22 04:38 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

shinear said:
newb question.

I have seen several post on hybrid and mixed genetics, has anyone
may a guide or a tek to start the process....do I just dump two different agar plates in a jar and wait? (was going to try that)

It may be beyond my pay grade but other than growing different mushies it seems to be an logical and most interesting continuation of this hobby.




Post a good pic of your plates.

Basically just pick strong growing mycelium, grow some shrooms, then pic the best / fastest/ tallest / fattest shroom or one you just like, and clone that.

Are your two different plates the same variety? If not, don't mix yet, learn the basics first.

To dump into a jar, you need to prepare and pressure cook the grain to sterilize it. Have you read teks on that?

Need more info. Have you grown some shrooms yet? I saw one pic of one shroom in a jar but you called it a "volunteer", which I take to mean growing as a weed.

If you've already grown shrooms and got the basics down, and you want to cross varieties, I'd follow user named
fahtster
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showprofile.php?User=160094

He kicks ass at it, without even using agar.


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Edited by nektar61 (06/17/22 05:05 PM)


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Offlineshinear
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: nektar61]
    #27824530 - 06/17/22 05:28 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

newb question.

I have seen several post on hybrid and mixed genetics, has anyone
may a guide or a tek to start the process....do I just dump two different agar plates in a jar and wait? (was going to try that)

It may be beyond my pay grade but other than growing different mushies it seems to be an logical and most interesting continuation of this hobby.
Quote:

nektar61 said:
Quote:

shinear said:
newb question.

I have seen several post on hybrid and mixed genetics, has anyone
may a guide or a tek to start the process....do I just dump two different agar plates in a jar and wait? (was going to try that)

It may be beyond my pay grade but other than growing different mushies it seems to be an logical and most interesting continuation of this hobby.




Post a good pic of your plates.

Basically just pick strong growing mycelium, grow some shrooms, then pic the best / fastest/ tallest / fattest shroom or one you just like, and clone that.

Are your two different plates the same variety? If not, don't mix yet, learn the basics first.

To dump into a jar, you need to prepare and pressure cook the grain to sterilize it. Have you read teks on that?

Need more info. Have you grown some shrooms yet? I saw one pic of one shroom in a jar but you called it a "volunteer", which I take to mean growing as a weed.

If you've already grown shrooms and got the basics down, and you want to cross varieties, I'd follow user named
fahtster
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showprofile.php?User=160094

He kicks ass at it, without even using agar.




I have all the basics down and currently been making grow kits for my wife to kill (oyster and lions mane) but am just looking for the next phase so I can make grows
for a reason not just to collect more jars of cubes I will never have time to eat.

Started with 5 spore syringes and grew them and their kids and their kids kids.....
did the lab learning

I have a bunch of older (2 to 3 month) agar cups that I just can't bring myself to throw out....kinda like kickin' the kids to the curb, just wanted to read what others had done and what may happen if I mixed them all in one jar.....would it be a battle royal or a monster?

The volunteer was in a jar I throw the bits out of the bottom of spawn jars into for my office just to see who grows. 

I will look at fahtster's posts, thank you for the reply.


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Offlinenektar61S
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: shinear] * 1
    #27824735 - 06/17/22 07:31 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

shinear said:
newb question.

I have seen several post on hybrid and mixed genetics, has anyone
may a guide or a tek to start the process....do I just dump two different agar plates in a jar and wait? (was going to try that)

It may be beyond my pay grade but other than growing different mushies it seems to be an logical and most interesting continuation of this hobby.
Quote:

nektar61 said:
Quote:

shinear said:
newb question.

I have seen several post on hybrid and mixed genetics, has anyone
may a guide or a tek to start the process....do I just dump two different agar plates in a jar and wait? (was going to try that)

It may be beyond my pay grade but other than growing different mushies it seems to be an logical and most interesting continuation of this hobby.




Post a good pic of your plates.

Basically just pick strong growing mycelium, grow some shrooms, then pic the best / fastest/ tallest / fattest shroom or one you just like, and clone that.

Are your two different plates the same variety? If not, don't mix yet, learn the basics first.

To dump into a jar, you need to prepare and pressure cook the grain to sterilize it. Have you read teks on that?

Need more info. Have you grown some shrooms yet? I saw one pic of one shroom in a jar but you called it a "volunteer", which I take to mean growing as a weed.

If you've already grown shrooms and got the basics down, and you want to cross varieties, I'd follow user named
fahtster
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showprofile.php?User=160094

He kicks ass at it, without even using agar.




I have all the basics down and currently been making grow kits for my wife to kill (oyster and lions mane) but am just looking for the next phase so I can make grows
for a reason not just to collect more jars of cubes I will never have time to eat.

Started with 5 spore syringes and grew them and their kids and their kids kids.....
did the lab learning

I have a bunch of older (2 to 3 month) agar cups that I just can't bring myself to throw out....kinda like kickin' the kids to the curb, just wanted to read what others had done and what may happen if I mixed them all in one jar.....would it be a battle royal or a monster?

The volunteer was in a jar I throw the bits out of the bottom of spawn jars into for my office just to see who grows. 

I will look at fahtster's posts, thank you for the reply.





This thread has the complete diary of the creation of RustyWhyte variety (cross of CRS and AA+).

Read just the threads by Pastywhyte if you want to get through it quicker. It's long, was years:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20228521/vc/1

Also check out the Pheno Hunters section:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27106810


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Healing Oakland]
    #27825012 - 06/17/22 09:45 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Healing Oakland said:
Quote:

Wall.E said:
Because they’re different kingdoms?




The fungi kingdom is the kingdom in question, there are not different kingdoms for different kinds of fungi. Different species of fungi all belong to the same kingdom and according to what I've found all fungi are modular organisms so therefore are not subject to the same concerns/patterns of eventual senescence as unitary organisms would be under the parameters posited here in the shroomery regarding senescence by continuous expansion (like with clones of clones of weed plants). I am beginning to believe that what we might misconstrue as senescence is just as likely mismanagement at some turn or another in maintaining the health of the culture, and it is our own operator error at some point in the managing of a culture that changes the end result rather than it being a natural and true senescence like we'd expect from most other things like plants for example. Could it be that it's a scape goat for mismanagement, and allows us to shift responsibility for failing cultures to biological powers outside of our control? Then it gets repeated enough times by otherwise skilled cultivators that the rest of us believe it and push this idea through to the next generation of cultivators without critically examining it?





Yeah that's possible.  I've never seen senescence in any mushroom culture I've cultivated, if they are growing under optimal conditions.  Put them in the fridge for long enough and something happens to where they don't recover though IME.  About a year out they're toast no matter what.  YMMV.


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InvisibleWall.E
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: PrimalSoup] * 1
    #27825033 - 06/17/22 10:00 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

I fruited a reishi culture that was sitting in my fridge for a year and half a few weeks ago.

Elpico just posted a dope tray in the stone producers thread that he had in cold storage for 6 years. I’m not trying to debate you, just trying to say that maybe it’s culture dependent.

I think it might be culture dependent or something.

Is there any info out there on telomeres or do fungi not have them?


--------------------
Life’s shit, but I’m loving it



Edited by Wall.E (06/17/22 10:00 PM)


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Wall.E] * 3
    #27825054 - 06/17/22 10:11 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

I'm pretty sure it's culture dependent.  But I've seen it in cubes often and in woodlovers after, oh maybe a couple years or so - sometimes.  Depends on a lot of things including ambient temp, GE, media, etc.  OTOH I've had Ps cyans survive years in the fridge in sealed test tubes so go figure. :shrug:

That's one reason I'm interested in the dried-grains-as-long-term-storage idea but I've yet to try it out. :jesusmagic:


--------------------

if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Wheat Prep 2.0  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 


Edited by PrimalSoup (06/17/22 10:18 PM)


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OfflineHealing Oakland
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #27825186 - 06/18/22 12:08 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
That's one reason I'm interested in the dried-grains-as-long-term-storage idea but I've yet to try it out. :jesusmagic:




I feel like I missed something interesting: Dried-grains-as-long-term-storage idea? Do you have a link so I can check it out? Thanks brotha :rockon:


--------------------
Healing Oakland
The Magic Mushroom Co-operative

Are you a cultivator in or near the Bay Area?

:pm: Healing Oakland is accepting new cultivators :pm:
We are also accepting applications for co-op assistants and customer service reps.

OAKLAND  DECRIMINALIZED


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InvisiblefahtsterM
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Healing Oakland] * 5
    #27825203 - 06/18/22 12:17 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Here’s what I do. 

Here’s an added benefit for drying out cultures

You can also transfer the grains to sterile swab packs.. for further storage


They start to revive on agar in 2-3 days

I know ppl (bigfootscreepyuncle, I think?) are just leaving a few grains in the bottom of their spawn jars and putting the lid back on and drying them out that way.  As long as you get them dry sterile and keep ‘em that way, they’re good to go


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OfflineChildOfTheMoon
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: fahtster]
    #27825383 - 06/18/22 04:48 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

As someone who’s only been in the hobby for half a year: can someone with more knowledge explain me what’s wrong with the plates on top of this page? Are they all completely contaminated or just too much to bother making transfers from? Because I’ve had suspicious ones looking similar to the first picture as well where taking a transfer worked out just fine.

When I don’t get my nutrients right and don’t pay attention to keeping the temperature in my grow room (spare bedroom) stable my cubes easily grow whispier and in rings too, so my first instinct would be to transfer and see what happens.


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InvisibleWall.E
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: ChildOfTheMoon] * 2
    #27825389 - 06/18/22 05:01 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

It’s mostly mycelial structure. Each fungus has its own growth pattern and is recognizable on plates. People love hunting and cultivating rhizos when working with cubes because it’s relatively distinguished from a lot fungi. To my knowledge there aren’t many molds that throw out thick rhizos.

The other thing is speed. If someone is germinating spores and one plate is covering three times the distance than another it usually isn’t a sign that they’ve hit the genetic lottery. More often than not it’s a super aggressive mold that’s gonna outcompete any good culture.

Our plates are filled with hundreds, if not thousands of dikaryon and they all have the same “mindset” and goal and will replicate in a similar pattern, presenting uniform growth with observable strands we can see with the naked eye. Identifying them comes with practice, time and observation. Sometimes you just have to stick your neck out on this thread and say “looks good to me” just to have ten people say that you’re retarded


--------------------
Life’s shit, but I’m loving it



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