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InvisibleWall.E
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: nektar61] * 1
    #27823040 - 06/16/22 06:05 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

We’ll eventually hit that point, but I think fungus is a lot more resilient than most people wanna give credit to


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Offlinehigh_desert
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Nichrome]
    #27823044 - 06/16/22 06:09 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Nichrome said:
:highfive1:

In some situations it working sometimes, is all you can hope for anyway. I talk to folks regularly who don't have access to things like pressure cookers and stuff like that but they need to make it work anyway, so they can eat or make money to eat or just find solace in life's ocean of trouble.

I fully support whatever you can do to make something work even if it is not ideal.

Shit, one time I rigged a coffee straw to a turkey baster with some masking tape and elbow grease and noc'd a stack of pf cakes. Worked like a charm. I can't say that is in any way a best practice but it was the best practice at the time because it worked.

Always more than one way to crack a coconut.

(disclaimer: I've been munching small amounts of various tampanensis mushrooms slowly over the course of the day...:heart:)




This is post of the day imo 😃 a turkey baster, that is seriously mycology Rambo right there


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OfflineMOUSIE
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Wall.E]
    #27823049 - 06/16/22 06:13 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Can I ask questions and pics of agar to get help with identifying contam vs mycelium growth??? Or should I take my SuperNoob ass elsewhere???:confused:


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OfflineMOUSIE
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: MOUSIE]
    #27823051 - 06/16/22 06:16 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

...Im MOUSE btw (my bad)


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OfflineSirPsycho
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: MOUSIE] * 6
    #27823052 - 06/16/22 06:16 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)



Remember y'all, sharing is caring. Happy scoping everyone. :wave:


--------------------
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OfflineCrackatoa
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: MOUSIE]
    #27823057 - 06/16/22 06:25 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MOUSIE said:
Can I ask questions and pics of agar to get help with identifying contam vs mycelium growth??? Or should I take my SuperNoob ass elsewhere???:confused:





Very important read,Stro's Cleaning and Isolating On Agar, a must read really.


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OfflineBleuMojeaux
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: MOUSIE]
    #27823061 - 06/16/22 06:27 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Many good ppl are here and quick to help with questions and give advice.


There's also a dedicated Agar thread you may like...

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25662166


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OfflineHealing Oakland
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: nektar61] * 2
    #27823094 - 06/16/22 06:52 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

nektar61 said:

https://www.opb.org/television/programs/oregon-field-guide/article/oregon-humongous-fungus/

Quote:

It's not just the same type of fungus. DNA testing has convinced the scientists this is the largest single living organism in the world.




Same is true of the largest aspen forest too.

...wouldn't  senescence be at play as an organism spreads out as far as the mushroom or aspen tree organism? Both seem to be doing great.




Organisms with a 'unitary body plan', like humans and many other animals and living organisms, we all have a 'determinate structure' composed of a certain number of body parts, specialized organs and a separate germ line. We unitary organisms are generally all subject to the process of senescence, which results in eventual deterioration, and in death even in the most perfect circumstances/conditions. However organisms with 'modular body plans', including some plants, fungi and even some sessile animals like hydroids, these seem to escape this process and are potentially immortal. The mushroom colony in Oregon is one of these organisms with a modular body plan.

Edit: So as far as cubes proposed senescence goes, I'm not 100% on the different factors that would affect it, but they are still definitely a modular organism like all fungi, so I think I've been buying into the idea without thinking it through for myself.... Definitely worth a little more research. Does anyone have an answer for why people say grain expansion and cloning repeatedly would create senescence if it is a modular organism?


Edited by Healing Oakland (06/16/22 07:08 PM)


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Offlinedreamwever
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Crackatoa]
    #27823110 - 06/16/22 07:04 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Hi Crackatoa and fellow Shroomers

I got a PC on sale - downside is 12psi, not 15

Ive looked around and still curious what is a good time for 500ML agar, i am thinking 45mins


Another question. How long do you wait till you remove the agar from a pressure cooker to pour in a SAB.

Last question.  When cooling the agar plates , i know to leave them in the SAB, but do i wrap them with clingwrap right away or leave till next time when we plan to inoculate with wild cubensis spores. I plan to use parafilm for the spores to agar, and cling was the option i thought to keep the agar safe in the sab over night.

Thank you in advance DW :smile:


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InvisibleMysticMycologist
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: dreamwever] * 1
    #27823138 - 06/16/22 07:34 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

30min should be fine. The extra 15 won’t hurt anything though.

Remove it from the PC and pour when it is cool enough to handle but still liquid.

Leave newly poured plates in your SAB until they solidify, then wrap them.


--------------------
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Offlinenektar61S
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Healing Oakland]
    #27823159 - 06/16/22 07:59 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Healing Oakland said:
Definitely worth a little more research. Does anyone have an answer for why people say grain expansion and cloning repeatedly would create senescence if it is a modular organism?




I'd love to hear if anyone here has experienced senescence degradation with shrooms first hand, or if it's just rumors.

I had a clone colony that got embedded mold, it took me over ten generations of transfers to get it clean again, and it grew fine and was as potent as at the start.

I wonder if the "successive clones will cause senescence" is just an assumption, based on something people read about something else and assuming it applies here, when maybe it does not.

For instance: if you go back 20 years in the posts here, there are some people using peptone in agar. Yet no one growing fat tubs now uses it. I assume someone 20 years ago took a first-year college biology class, used peptone agar to grow bacteria, and figured it was something that would help with shrooms (when it might just help grow bacteria!)

Same with using coffee in shroom grows. Not used anymore, and probably just was used because it's sometimes used in gardening plants, so someone thought it would help with shrooms.

Same with gypsum. A very few star growers and TCs do use it, but probably from inertia of having used it back when they started. Most star growers and TCs here do not use it anymore 

I bet it got used 20 years ago because someone had used it previously in growing roses, and thought it would help here.

I'm wondering if the same thing is true with the "successive clones will cause senescence" thing that's constantly repeated here. Might be old wives tale based on no fact that is still said over and over.


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Offlinedreamwever
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: MysticMycologist]
    #27823180 - 06/16/22 08:18 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Thank you MysticMycologist. I will do the extra 15mins , cant hurt as you said, and then once solid wrap with cling wrap when ready to inoculate un wrap cling, use parafilm on the inoculated agar to seal and give fae


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OfflineHealing Oakland
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: nektar61]
    #27823193 - 06/16/22 08:34 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

nektar61 said:
I wonder if the "successive clones will cause senescence" is just an assumption, based on something people read about something else and assuming it applies here, when maybe it does not.






My lady is a weed industry gal here in Cali, and she said the same thing. "You can take clones off a mother plant in perpetuity, but if you try to clone the clone and then clone that clone etc etc, it will eventually fuck up the genetics."

Maybe it's an assumption born of something like that from the weed industry?

While the fungal kingdom is comprised of various species, they are all modular organisms and should therefore follow the same rules as such right?


Quote:

"...mushrooms are not individual organisms. Mushrooms are appendages (literally 'fruits') of their mycelium. In fact, fungi are 'modular organisms', like clonal corals and vegetatively-propagated plants.
The nature of modular organisms is discussed in these two references:

Andrews, J. H. (1995). Fungi and the evolution of growth form. Canadian Journal of Botany, 73: S1206-S1212.
Harper, J.L., Rosen, B.R. & White, J. (1986). The Growth and Form of Modular Organisms. London: The Royal Society. 250 pp. ISBN-10: 0521350743, ISBN-13: 978-0521350747."





So if the right conditions are met/kept, they should be able to continue in perpetuity... :shrug:

I would really like if someone could site sources for cubes being subject to 'unitary body plan' rules for senescence, and under what circumstances etc, when it is a 'modular body plan' organism.


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Offlinenektar61S
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Healing Oakland]
    #27823220 - 06/16/22 09:02 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Healing Oakland said:
I would really like if someone could site sources for cubes being subject to 'unitary body plan' rules for senescence, and under what circumstances etc, when it is a 'modular body plan' organism.




Yes.

Maybe it did come from pot rules. Someone already named a shroom "strain" after a marijuana strain (jedi mind fuck).

I would not assume that what works for plants works for shrooms.  They are so different in so many ways.

Still will welcome anyone with first-hand experience on it.

I think someone actually said on here recently that other mushrooms degrade quickly with successive clones but cubes do not.


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OfflineHealing Oakland
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: nektar61]
    #27823244 - 06/16/22 09:16 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Can you find/remember who that was? As far as I understand it they are all modular organisms so why would they act differently?


--------------------
Healing Oakland
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InvisibleWall.E
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Healing Oakland]
    #27823253 - 06/16/22 09:24 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Because they’re different kingdoms?

Verum had a thread where he ran transfers up to 100 times and didn’t experience any lag. Fruits contain many different strains of mycelium and spores come from different dikaryon. Each dikaryon creates four spores and there’s thousands of not millions of spores per mushroom.

The fact that we deal with large tools compared to the microscopic world of cells means we’re pulling many strains of mycelium with each clone. I think this helps stave off senescence and is why stabilizing is so difficult or drawn out.


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Offlinenektar61S
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Wall.E]
    #27823300 - 06/16/22 10:05 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Wall.E said:
Because they’re different kingdoms?

Verum had a thread where he ran transfers up to 100 times and didn’t experience any lag.





I thought about that in this. But did he send it to grain at the end? no lag doesn't mean good shrooms, but is promising in what I'm guessing.

Again, if clone degradation over successive generations was a big deal in cubes, enigma would be shit. The ones floating around are clone of clone of clone x 100 probably.

Instead of being shit, it's one of the strongest things out there, at least of what entered in the last Psilocybin Cup.


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OfflineMOUSIE
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: nektar61]
    #27823334 - 06/16/22 10:39 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Don’t know what to do from here…contam is coming, I can see it🤬🤬🤬 … LMEA premix Rak media, steamed for 1hr 45m then poured in front of diy flow hood...yeah, I know. I got a SAB too though, that’s what I took the pics in.  All MSS, PE6 and JohnAllen, put to agar on 6/9. What do I transfer if anything 😔


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OfflineMOUSIE
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: MOUSIE]
    #27823337 - 06/16/22 10:40 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MOUSIE said:
Don’t know what to do from here…contam is coming, I can see it🤬🤬🤬 … LMEA premix Rak media, steamed for 1hr 45m then poured in front of diy flow hood...yeah, I know. I got a SAB too though, that’s what I took the pics in.  All MSS, PE6 and JohnAllen, put to agar on 6/9. What do I transfer if anything 😔



I see one lil dot forming under agar on three plates…


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OfflineHealing Oakland
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: MOUSIE]
    #27823363 - 06/16/22 11:05 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Wall.E said:
Because they’re different kingdoms?




The fungi kingdom is the kingdom in question, there are not different kingdoms for different kinds of fungi. Different species of fungi all belong to the same kingdom and according to what I've found all fungi are modular organisms so therefore are not subject to the same concerns/patterns of eventual senescence as unitary organisms would be under the parameters posited here in the shroomery regarding senescence by continuous expansion (like with clones of clones of weed plants). I am beginning to believe that what we might misconstrue as senescence is just as likely mismanagement at some turn or another in maintaining the health of the culture, and it is our own operator error at some point in the managing of a culture that changes the end result rather than it being a natural and true senescence like we'd expect from most other things like plants for example. Could it be that it's a scape goat for mismanagement, and allows us to shift responsibility for failing cultures to biological powers outside of our control? Then it gets repeated enough times by otherwise skilled cultivators that the rest of us believe it and push this idea through to the next generation of cultivators without critically examining it?


--------------------
Healing Oakland
The Magic Mushroom Co-operative

Are you a cultivator in or near the Bay Area?

:pm: Healing Oakland is accepting new cultivators :pm:
We are also accepting applications for co-op assistants and customer service reps.

OAKLAND  DECRIMINALIZED


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