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Offlinehigh_desert
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Doctor Mario]
    #27810421 - 06/08/22 03:38 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Doctor Mario said:
Does anybody shake their jars upon reaching 100% colonization? I've always done this because that final shake tends to reveal hidden contaminants. I've had so many jars that look perfect all the way to 100% go to shit after a final shake and then they recover like ass.

I used to think that my inoculant was dirty but if that was true, wouldn't that shit start causing problems during colonization?

This jar is a good example. It looked healthy during colonization and after being shaken, the myc got fluffier and started pumping out metabolites. Been driving myself crazy trying to figure it out.





I was thinking maybe it's just a stress response from the shaking.. What happens if you try to use jars like this?


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InvisibleDoctor Mario
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: high_desert] * 1
    #27810438 - 06/08/22 04:06 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

I've used jars in similar situations to this before and I still get shrooms from them but the yield is reduced. The bacterial ones smelled sort of sweet flushed fast and gave hollow mushrooms and trich during the third flush. The other tubs to compare to were the same culture spawned at the same time.

This whole grain resterilization thing is interesting. I'll have to try it out at some point. I wonder how jars/bags in this situation would perform. I don't usually catch the bacteria until day 9 or 10.


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Offlinehigh_desert
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Doctor Mario]
    #27810446 - 06/08/22 04:23 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Guess like someone else said it must be some pocket of bacteria that gets spread around in the last shake..


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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mind.at.large] * 4
    #27810562 - 06/08/22 07:22 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

mind.at.large said:
Yeah you should totally resterilize that and report back!





Don't resterilize, just make fresh spawn. Sterilizing active live infections could produce byproducts that are harmful or toxic to mycelium. Start fresh with clean materials every time.


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Offlinetedoro
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #27810591 - 06/08/22 08:03 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

p9hu7 said:
Quote:

mind.at.large said:
Yeah you should totally resterilize that and report back!





Don't resterilize, just make fresh spawn. Sterilizing active live infections could produce byproducts that are harmful or toxic to mycelium. Start fresh with clean materials every time.




This is truth. we aren't just killing live organisms... we are attempting to create grains without chemical toxins that can't be removed by PC'ing.


--------------------
--------------------
Deep pour soft agar plates-->bags of WBS-->Low Profile Monos
Clean spawn thread | Put a thermometer on your PC


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Offlinenektar61S
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Inocuole] * 2
    #27810603 - 06/08/22 08:14 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

x7x clones getting splorty in my first 16 quart tub.


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-NEW? Start here.


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OfflineRotnpins
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Inocuole] * 1
    #27810605 - 06/08/22 08:14 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

I decided to take the WBS back because I found a 50lb bag of white millet...

It's kinda funny how excited I am just because I bought a 50lb bag of grains

:fuckyeah::sexeh::hellyeah:
^^^how I feel right now^^^


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Invisiblesandman420
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Rotnpins]
    #27810623 - 06/08/22 08:33 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

good to see youu back around penut


--------------------
- Sandbag Tek - How To Sterilize Spawn Bags - All About Static Pressure / Pressure Drop for DIY Flow Hoods - Sandman's LC Tek-

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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: tedoro] * 1
    #27810640 - 06/08/22 09:03 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

; )

I lurk in the shadows, though I spend far more time on discord these days.


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OfflineRotnpins
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: sandman420] * 2
    #27810643 - 06/08/22 09:06 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

sandman420 said: penut




:mindblown:


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Invisiblemind.at.large
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Registered: 12/13/16
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Rotnpins]
    #27810681 - 06/08/22 09:59 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

p9hu7 said:
Quote:

mind.at.large said:
Yeah you should totally resterilize that and report back!





Don't resterilize, just make fresh spawn. Sterilizing active live infections could produce byproducts that are harmful or toxic to mycelium. Start fresh with clean materials every time.



Do you know of any research that has been done regarding this? I can't seem to find much, but I've heard many people say this. I'm assuming that the level and harm of toxins is dependent of what contamination is present. I'm sure molds, bacteria, and yeasts all produce different byproducts.

I've had decent success growing on used substrate, even when it has been taken over by a contamination, as long as I sterilize it. This idea is still a work in progress for me, but I have yet to see any significant reduction in yields that would warrant needing fresh materials every time. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27768853


--------------------
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Invisiblesandman420
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mind.at.large]
    #27810724 - 06/08/22 10:52 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Effect of Metabolites Produced by Trichoderma harzianum Biotypes and Agaricus bisporus on Their Respective Growth Radii in Culture

Quote:

Trichoderma harzianum biotypes Th1, Th2, and Th3 produced volatile metabolites in vitro which had similar fungistatic effects on the growth of Agaricus bisporus. Metabolites present in agar colonized by these strains also inhibited mycelial growth of A. bisporus, although the reduction in growth was less in the presence of metabolites produced by biotype Th2 than that in the presence of metabolites produced by Th1 or Th3. A. bisporus produced metabolites in liquid culture that inhibited the growth of Th1 and Th3 but stimulated the growth of Th2. A compound(s) responsible for the inhibition and stimulation was extracted from A. bisporus culture filtrate and from compost-grown fruit bodies with n-butanol, but the identity of the compound(s) was not determined. We suggest that the stimulation of Th2 by metabolites produced by A. bisporus and the relatively low level of inhibition of A. bisporus by Th2 facilitate colonization of compost by both fungi. However, as compost colonization reaches a maximum, a change in the competitive balance in favor of Th2 results in the inhibition of fruit body production by A. bisporus and the devastating green mold epidemics affecting mushroom production.




--------------------
- Sandbag Tek - How To Sterilize Spawn Bags - All About Static Pressure / Pressure Drop for DIY Flow Hoods - Sandman's LC Tek-

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InvisiblefahtsterM
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: sandman420] * 3
    #27810738 - 06/08/22 11:12 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Everyone seems to be ok with ppl foraging in the woods and eating those fruits.. god knows what bacteria and other fungi and mycotoxins are surrounding those fruits.. just sayin


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Offlinesmalltalk_canceled
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: fahtster] * 2
    #27810766 - 06/08/22 11:48 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Yeah man everytime some boob come tell me about liberty caps im like "its not even a clone bro"


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Willpower is the one true virtue



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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mind.at.large]
    #27810865 - 06/08/22 01:47 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

mind.at.large said:

Do you know of any research that has been done regarding this? I can't seem to find much, but I've heard many people say this. I'm assuming that the level and harm of toxins is dependent of what contamination is present. I'm sure molds, bacteria, and yeasts all produce different byproducts.





This may be helpful:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27777884#27777884

Quite an informative reply.

Quote:

There are substances produced by various bacteria that, even after the bacteria are dead, remain active. These substances are part of their evolutionary survival mechanisms, and serve to kill other organisms that compete with the bacteria. One that immediately comes to mind is spinosyn which is sold under the brand name Spinosad as a pesticide. Another which isn't a single substance but is a more general description for inhibiting substances produced by bacteria is called Bacteriocins (which are peptides), "bacteriocin-like inhibitory substances" or "BLIS" for short.






Edited by Stipe-n Cap (06/08/22 01:54 PM)


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Offlinetedoro
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #27810875 - 06/08/22 01:54 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

p9hu7 said:
Quote:

mind.at.large said:

Do you know of any research that has been done regarding this? I can't seem to find much, but I've heard many people say this. I'm assuming that the level and harm of toxins is dependent of what contamination is present. I'm sure molds, bacteria, and yeasts all produce different byproducts.





This may be helpful:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27777884#27777884

Quite an informative reply.





I second that link. It changed my thoughts on things. I just sat a bunch of loaded bags off to the side, waiting for my PC's to get free. They sat at very warm room temp (90f ish) and whatever the hell was growing on those grains for those 5 hours flat out killed half the mycelia it touched(after being PC'd for my usual 3.75hrs). The bags that didn't sit colonized to 100% in 7 days. The bad bags that made it are at 5% two weeks in.


--------------------
--------------------
Deep pour soft agar plates-->bags of WBS-->Low Profile Monos
Clean spawn thread | Put a thermometer on your PC


Edited by tedoro (06/08/22 03:24 PM)


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: A.k.a]
    #27811041 - 06/08/22 04:39 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

A.k.a said:
Quote:

Doctor Mario said:
Does anybody shake their jars upon reaching 100% colonization? I've always done this because that final shake tends to reveal hidden contaminants. I've had so many jars that look perfect all the way to 100% go to shit after a final shake and then they recover like ass.

I used to think that my inoculant was dirty but if that was true, wouldn't that shit start causing problems during colonization?

This jar is a good example. It looked healthy during colonization and after being shaken, the myc got fluffier and started pumping out metabolites. Been driving myself crazy trying to figure it out.





I think it has to be that there was a tiny bit of bacteria in there and it spread a little more each time the jar was shaken. Then finally that last shake jsut happened to put it over the edge and it was able to get a foothold.

That’s the only thing I can think of that makes sense.





Yeah I've seen that often enough.  There can be contams inside the bulk of the grain that you don't see until shaking spreads them all around and then it all goes south.


--------------------

if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
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Invisiblemind.at.large
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: PrimalSoup] * 2
    #27811115 - 06/08/22 05:32 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Thanks for those links sandman and p9. I’ll be doing a bunch of research into that these next few days.

I will say, as many of us know, in this field, there’s a difference between what you can’t do and what you shouldn’t do but can kinda get away with, and from my experience, this topic falls in the latter. With faht having success resterilizing grains and me with resterilizing substrate, I’d say it can clearly be done. It’s definitely not the ideal situation, but with skyrocketing prices and limited availability on a lot of the materials we use, I fully plan on testing this idea to its limit.

What I’m wondering is that composted manure is used pretty heavily in mushroom cultivation, and that had to have been crawling with all sorts of bacteria and other microbes before being treated for cultivation purposes. How would that apply to this topic?


--------------------
Mind's Easy Bag 2 Bag Grain Transfers


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OfflineNichrome
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mind.at.large] * 2
    #27811308 - 06/08/22 08:02 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

I think what it boils down to is what type of organism ate the grain as it sat and how much enzyme load or other type of mycotoxin that organism left behind and whether or not the pc destroys those things. I've used funky nasty grain sometimes and it works fine after the pc, and have had complete failures where cube (or anything else for that matter) wouldn't grow on it at all. Some "rot" can be negated with the pc and some will be killed but might leave behind compounds that prevent mycelial growth.

Twice sterilized grain seems to work fine if it was good to begin with. Just my experience.


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Better to be deprived of food for three days, than tea for one.


Freedom is not the right to do as you please, but the liberty to do as you should. ~Emerson


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Offlinetedoro
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Nichrome] * 2
    #27811401 - 06/08/22 09:14 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Another thing to consider... How long your cycles are. I need to PC for 3.75 hours for the center of my bags to get good and hot. But 4.25hrs turns my birdseed to shit. So I doubt I'll be running any of my bags twice.


--------------------
--------------------
Deep pour soft agar plates-->bags of WBS-->Low Profile Monos
Clean spawn thread | Put a thermometer on your PC


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