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Guerrilla
Bumbaclart


Registered: 01/30/21
Posts: 3,170
Loc: United Kingdom
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: SlugWorthx1]
#27797863 - 05/29/22 02:23 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
SlugWorthx1 said: 4 hour soak , 30 min boil
Have you used this with good success for bags? And which grain?
-------------------- Being pissed on does not make you a real man.
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Tweeq
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Guerrilla]
#27797866 - 05/29/22 02:24 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Guerrilla said: I wanna talk grain bags..
How can we get them to perfection? (RYE)
I do a 24 hour soak and I have a pressure cooker full of grains on high for 45 mins (heating up the water with the grains). It's only at this point they look hydrated enough by eye.
But after a few hours of pressure cooking, they can go a little mushy.
Should I be decreasing my soak, my boil, both? And by how much roughly? I am just gonna keep playing around with it.
A few hours of pressure cooking? Maybe that is the issue. 90-100 minutes should do it. Edit: nvm. Misread.
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SlugWorthx1


Registered: 03/16/20
Posts: 219
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Guerrilla]
#27797877 - 05/29/22 02:30 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Yeah its always how i prepare grains for both jars and bags. 24 hour soak is outdated and will allow fermentation which is unnecessary. I usually do 4-5 hour soak. 20- 35 min boil. I use rye grains.
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tedoro
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Guerrilla]
#27797880 - 05/29/22 02:31 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Guerrilla said: I wanna talk grain bags..
How can we get them to perfection? (RYE)
I do a 24 hour soak and I have a pressure cooker full of grains on high for 45 mins (heating up the water with the grains). It's only at this point they look hydrated enough by eye.
But after a few hours of pressure cooking, they can go a little mushy.
Should I be decreasing my soak, my boil, both? And by how much roughly? I am just gonna keep playing around with it.
I'd read a couple threads on bags. Heres a brief list of things to think on when changing to bags from jars.
1) bags often are larger... takes longer for the steams heat to get into the center. Time depends on how you load and how big the bags are. I go 3.75hrs with 3 quart bags of birdseed.
2) Most prefer to prep their grains a tad bit drier than grains prepped for jars.
3) most leave bag unsealed.. as they make very impressive self seals as they cool down.
4) Most find bags in SAB's very difficult to inoculate successfully.
-------------------- -------------------- Deep pour soft agar plates-->bags of WBS-->Low Profile Monos Clean spawn thread | Put a thermometer on your PC
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Culliganman360
Stranger



Registered: 06/05/19
Posts: 854
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: tedoro]
#27797887 - 05/29/22 02:37 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Yeah bro I have 0 experience with rye. But give it a shot it might work
this https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27163702/page/1 might be helpful maybe someone in that thread talks about using bags with rye
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Guerrilla
Bumbaclart


Registered: 01/30/21
Posts: 3,170
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: tedoro]
#27797889 - 05/29/22 02:39 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
SlugWorthx1 said: Yeah its always how i prepare grains for both jars and bags. 24 hour soak is outdated and will allow fermentation which is unnecessary. I usually do 4-5 hour soak. 20- 35 min boil. I use rye grains.
Thanks dude I'm gonna give this a try.
I don't do the 24hr soak for endospore purposes, but because of how much they actually hydrate in that 24 hours - they at least double in size and I just always figured that would be better.
I also read a post where a dude ran a controlled experiment with 24hr soaked grains and either non or shortly soaked. Clone tubs. 24hr hydrated had better BE. That always stuck with me.
Quote:
tedoro said:
Quote:
Guerrilla said: I wanna talk grain bags..
How can we get them to perfection? (RYE)
I do a 24 hour soak and I have a pressure cooker full of grains on high for 45 mins (heating up the water with the grains). It's only at this point they look hydrated enough by eye.
But after a few hours of pressure cooking, they can go a little mushy.
Should I be decreasing my soak, my boil, both? And by how much roughly? I am just gonna keep playing around with it.
I'd read a couple threads on bags. Heres a brief list of things to think on when changing to bags from jars.
1) bags often are larger... takes longer for the steams heat to get into the center. Time depends on how you load and how big the bags are. I go 3.75hrs with 3 quart bags of birdseed.
2) Most prefer to prep their grains a tad bit drier than grains prepped for jars.
3) most leave bag unsealed.. as they make very impressive self seals as they cool down.
4) Most find bags in SAB's very difficult to inoculate successfully.
Thanks for your input dude, this is all stuff I'm aware of however I'm focusing more on point #2 about needing to prep a bit dryer for bags as I'm struggling with mushy grains. Just curious how dry is dry when it comes to bags is all.
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tedoro
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Guerrilla]
#27797899 - 05/29/22 02:43 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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I personally weigh all my hydration, and note which bags colonize fast, but not sweaty. I hydrate between 35% and 45% (including the water in the dry grain) 40% for bird seed is perfect for me. Tends to be wetter for larger grains like rye. Maybe do a few bags at different percentages.
-------------------- -------------------- Deep pour soft agar plates-->bags of WBS-->Low Profile Monos Clean spawn thread | Put a thermometer on your PC
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Culliganman360
Stranger



Registered: 06/05/19
Posts: 854
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: tedoro]
#27797901 - 05/29/22 02:44 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Guerrilla
Bumbaclart


Registered: 01/30/21
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Loc: United Kingdom
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: tedoro]
#27797908 - 05/29/22 02:48 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
tedoro said: I personally weigh all my hydration, and note which bags colonize fast, but not sweaty. I hydrate between 35% and 45% (including the water in the dry grain) 40% for bird seed is perfect for me. Tends to be wetter for larger grains like rye. Maybe do a few bags at different percentages.
Ok cool weighing percentages definitely makes it easier to be precise. What's your process of weighing the hydration?
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tedoro
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Guerrilla]
#27797917 - 05/29/22 02:53 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Guerrilla said:
Quote:
tedoro said: I personally weigh all my hydration, and note which bags colonize fast, but not sweaty. I hydrate between 35% and 45% (including the water in the dry grain) 40% for bird seed is perfect for me. Tends to be wetter for larger grains like rye. Maybe do a few bags at different percentages.
Ok cool weighing percentages definitely makes it easier to be precise. What's your process of weighing the hydration?
I had to buy a brewers scale.... my three other scales didn't allow for accurate weighing in that range.
Over the years I've never found any grain to vary more than one percent from 10% water dry, so I just use that number now. So ninety percent of your dry grains is your actual dry weight. Then I hydrate. weigh again. your actual dry weight divided by your total weigh gives you the percent of dry... the rest is the percent water.
Watch out when reading... some folks disregard the water in dry grains... it changes your percents quite a bit... only really affects things if you are communicating with others.
-------------------- -------------------- Deep pour soft agar plates-->bags of WBS-->Low Profile Monos Clean spawn thread | Put a thermometer on your PC
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Rotnpins
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Registered: 01/11/22
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Rotnpins]
#27797956 - 05/29/22 03:19 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rotnpins said: This tub just started pinning, but for some reason there is a spot (a little smaller than a quarter) that isn't colonized.. is this a red flag 🚩

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tedoro
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Rotnpins]
#27797967 - 05/29/22 03:25 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rotnpins said:
Quote:
Rotnpins said: This tub just started pinning, but for some reason there is a spot (a little smaller than a quarter) that isn't colonized.. is this a red flag 🚩

I get that sometimes... it often doesn't go well in the long run. but sometimes its harmless. The photo isn't great, but I swear I can see some mold forming on the coir on the spot.
-------------------- -------------------- Deep pour soft agar plates-->bags of WBS-->Low Profile Monos Clean spawn thread | Put a thermometer on your PC
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Rotnpins
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: tedoro]
#27798046 - 05/29/22 04:20 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
tedoro said:
Quote:
Rotnpins said:
Quote:
Rotnpins said: This tub just started pinning, but for some reason there is a spot (a little smaller than a quarter) that isn't colonized.. is this a red flag 🚩

I get that sometimes... it often doesn't go well in the long run. but sometimes its harmless. The photo isn't great, but I swear I can see some mold forming on the coir on the spot.
Cool, thanks.. I'll just keep my fingers crossed... I did take a good look at it, and I think it's just the picture.. I don't see any mold.. just a couple tiny drops of metabolites starting..so hopefully it will at least give me a decent flush since it's already pinning 🤞
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QM33
(NOT A PUPPET!) ❤❤❤❤❤



Registered: 04/09/20
Posts: 4,739
Loc: Oregon
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: tedoro]
#27798055 - 05/29/22 04:28 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Guerilla I would do that soaking shit.
Just boil until what I think mushboy called what I think is great, "al dented", almost like pasta. He said he leaves a little white on the inside, I guess you could say I do the same, just a hair underdone in the center so anything that's left on the outside can get reabsorbed and redistributed evenly thoguhout the grain during the cycle. Even when underhydration I still get some burst grains that I attribute mainly to stuffing the PC. Check TEds grain AA stuffing thread. Rye, wheat and oats all hydrate about the same, wheat and the are pretty much identical in terms of prep. I would follow bods oat prep trkQuote:
tedoro said:
Quote:
Guerrilla said:
Quote:
tedoro said: I personally weigh all my hydration, and note which bags colonize fast, but not sweaty. I hydrate between 35% and 45% (including the water in the dry grain) 40% for bird seed is perfect for me. Tends to be wetter for larger grains like rye. Maybe do a few bags at different percentages.
Ok cool weighing percentages definitely makes it easier to be precise. What's your process of weighing the hydration?
I had to buy a brewers scale.... my three other scales didn't allow for accurate weighing in that range.
Over the years I've never found any grain to vary more than one percent from 10% water dry, so I just use that number now. So ninety percent of your dry grains is your actual dry weight. Then I hydrate. weigh again. your actual dry weight divided by your total weigh gives you the percent of dry... the rest is the percent water.
Watch out when reading... some folks disregard the water in dry grains... it changes your percents quite a bit... only really affects things if you are communicating with others.
Wait so your saying you do what to prep your grains?
Ya I tried dry bagging grains once and that sucked. I would never weight my grains after, eventually you get a feel for it. Also you grains will have different starting percentages of hydration throughout the year depending on how they were harvested, bagged and stored prior to you having them and even after, although generally most grains come in around 8% according to some feed information I found from the USDA, you can also usually check on the bag or online, but it will vary. Cutting into the center of a grain with a razor if needed to clearly visualize the hydration level, as well as really being able to feel the hydration level based on the squishyness and consistency between your fingers is going to be the tell all for the best grain prep. I think everyone knows what a done grain is, ide say start with 5% under that and see how it treats you, go less if needed.
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tedoro
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: QM33] 1
#27798081 - 05/29/22 04:54 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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I avoided describing my prep, just mentioned that it helps to measure.
Not promoting no-prep. few do.
Use some well established preps. But measure if you want to know what water percentage is working for you. Opening grains is another way. not the only way. I don't cook large grains, so i can't open them to see whats up.
I'm honestly bugged by "you get a feel for it" Sure... after you know what works. But when you are learning... numbers are very helpful. And I wished more people listed numbers that are repeatable.
The percentages of water content in grains are pretty similar year round. (barring grains from a non-regulated farm) Enough for what we need here.
-------------------- -------------------- Deep pour soft agar plates-->bags of WBS-->Low Profile Monos Clean spawn thread | Put a thermometer on your PC
Edited by tedoro (05/29/22 05:05 PM)
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Rotnpins
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Inocuole]
#27798111 - 05/29/22 05:16 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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I prepped a LC 7 days ago, I used a piece of agar/mycelium about the size of a fingernail,. Its grown out to about a 1 inch sphere.. I'm using a 1/2 pint Mason jar... is that enough growth? Not really sure what to expect.
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CatsLoveHouseMusic
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Rotnpins]
#27798619 - 05/30/22 05:26 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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What are the pros and cons of bags vs jars? I’ve been doing jars for awhile and it works great… was thinking bags could inoculate a lot more though.
kinda like shoebox vs mono
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QM33
(NOT A PUPPET!) ❤❤❤❤❤



Registered: 04/09/20
Posts: 4,739
Loc: Oregon
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It's just time.
It used to take me probably 2+ hours a week if not more to make sure my 60+ jars were cleaned and all organized ready to go for the next run. I also didn't have a dishwasher at the time, but I found a dishwasher to commonly clean grain jars insufficiently.
Those 60 jars translate to like 15 bags, about 4q each. 15 bags is about 50ea so say 7.5$
Is it worth it to you to save 2 hours for 7.5?
And ide say it was closer to 3 even for me, not including the difference in time to load the bags over jars and even pack the PC with them
Also the amount of grain you can fit in a oc in bags vs jars is almost double, which saves you more time and money even.
It's a shame they don't have a reusable option yet, maybe soon.
But you burn gas for work? The governnt burns incomprehensible amounts of oil just so you can turn your lights on and charge your phone. Most of our clothing is some of the most eco unfriendly products we play into. All I'm saying is don't let sustainability hold you back while you start your career I'm mycology.
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Guerrilla
Bumbaclart


Registered: 01/30/21
Posts: 3,170
Loc: United Kingdom
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: QM33]
#27798657 - 05/30/22 06:04 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Anyone else found TAT slow to pin?
Lots of knots for a while now not sure if I should flip my lid or if it's normal
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QM33
(NOT A PUPPET!) ❤❤❤❤❤



Registered: 04/09/20
Posts: 4,739
Loc: Oregon
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Guerrilla]
#27798658 - 05/30/22 06:05 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Helllllla slow. I'm on my last batch 9f it because of it. My enigma is faster lol. 3 weeks til pins from spawn and you may very likely have a first round of early small guys before the real flush.
They are very nice tho, potency reported well above average, provides a solid flush, and they are pretty. At least the wombat tat I have.
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