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OfflineCrispykoot
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Mad Season]
    #24176899 - 03/20/17 07:01 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Mad Season said:
Quote:

bodhisatta said:



clostridum butyricum from brewers grain(rye malt) it's very heat resistant because of the spores. it is responsible for the most part in the rancid smell if you let grains soak too long. it will survive the boil and is why your grains go bad and smell like puke and Greek feet feta if you don't sterilize them after your grain prep.

it forms endospores even culture on anaerobic plates with an abidance of nutrients. as you can see some subset of the population finds it appropriate to form endospores despite not having "bad conditions" as conditions get worse spore formation goes up. I would be nearly positive you end up with more endospores if you do a soak than if you skip a soak, either way these DO get killed by a PC in a sufficient cycle.




FWIW. Under harsh conditions they produce more endospores, but as populations continue to rise, endospore populations rise too. They always make endospores regardless of conditions, this is a key to their survival.





Letting the grain sit after simmering/drying could be beneficial...Maybe the bacteria acting on the grain breaks it down and makes it easier to digest after PCing?


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Crispykoot]
    #24177140 - 03/20/17 09:11 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Who knows :shrug: it is possible, especially with certain types of beneficial bacteria, but endospore forming ones IMO make things harder to colonize


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: TheMadHatter420]
    #24177178 - 03/20/17 09:27 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

TheMadHatter420 said:
Quote:

PinPornProducer said:
Makes sense, its just how fast are the endospores produced?




This made me curious so I looked into it. Turns out that not all bacteria can form endospores, in fact only a few can. Those that can take about 8 hours.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endospore



Quote:

PinPornProducer said:
Under conditions of starvation, especially the lack of carbon and nitrogen sources, a single endospore forms within some of the bacteria. The process is called sporulation (def). (Kaiser, 2011)

When a bacterium detects environmental conditions are becoming unfavourable it may start the process of endosporulation, which takes about eight hours.



Quote:

TheMadHatter420 said:
"While significantly resistant to heat and radiation, endospores can be destroyed by burning or by autoclaving at a temperature exceeding the boiling point of water, 100 °C. Endospores are able to survive at 100 °C for hours, although the longer the number of hours the fewer that will survive. An indirect way to destroy them is to place them in an environment that reactivates them to their vegetative state. They will germinate within a day or two with the right environmental conditions, and then the vegetative cells, not as hardy as endospores, can be straightforwardly destroyed"

So It would take a couple day soak to bring them to life to kill them, BUT they would only form endospores when conditions get harsh, and that takes about 8 hours. This is very interesting.



That's all the watered down version

Some endospores form in a few hours. Most take around 8

Theyre formed in all circumstances, formed in more abundance when conditions start to deteriorate

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21604725


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OfflinePinPornProducer
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24177188 - 03/20/17 09:31 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

4 days post pc and looking good


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OfflineTiamo
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: PinPornProducer]
    #24177203 - 03/20/17 09:40 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Sweet wheat, wouldn't mind having that for breakfast (without the fungi)


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Tiamo]
    #24177222 - 03/20/17 09:49 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

extra fungi on mine please.


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OfflinePinPornProducer
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy]
    #24177234 - 03/20/17 09:54 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

These were no soak, just boiled, rinsed, strained and loaded.


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Offlinelovelaughlibs
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: PinPornProducer]
    #24177253 - 03/20/17 10:01 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Can you get away with not soaking rye, or will grains burst during boil?


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OfflinePinPornProducer
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: lovelaughlibs]
    #24177291 - 03/20/17 10:17 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Never used rye but I don't see why not, just have to experiment with boil times. I do have a couple 4lb bags a rye I picked up as samples a while ago. Maybe I'll give em a shot and see how they do.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: PinPornProducer]
    #24177299 - 03/20/17 10:19 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

I think sbj has a quick rye TEK


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OfflinePinPornProducer
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24177349 - 03/20/17 10:34 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

:thumbup:


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OfflineCrispykoot
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: PinPornProducer]
    #24177370 - 03/20/17 10:41 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

PinPornProducer said:
4 days post pc and looking good






As I was shaking the fuck outta freshly dropped wedges this morning this very picture popped into my mind and I thought...3P is on to something with that waiting to shake thing. Hmmm. How long generally before your masters are ready?


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OfflinePinPornProducer
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Crispykoot]
    #24177413 - 03/20/17 10:55 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Agar inoculated masters usually take me 2 weeks before they are ready. I like to wait 5-7 days before shaking just to make sure no contams pop up and also to let the myc crawl off the agar and get some grain coverage. But a normal g2g jar takes 7-10 days.


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Offlinelovelaughlibs
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: PinPornProducer]
    #24177540 - 03/20/17 11:43 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

The quick rye tek looks interesting, I'll have to try it next time.


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Invisiblevan hattonFacebookDiscord
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: lovelaughlibs] * 1
    #24177691 - 03/20/17 12:51 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

It tends to be under hydrated imo

@ kinetic 45-50 transfers 6 contamed with much less contamination then previously again thanks lol


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OfflineKenetic
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: van hatton]
    #24177745 - 03/20/17 01:06 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Np.  Just takes practice


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Kenetic]
    #24177952 - 03/20/17 02:11 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)



same ESS culture I've been using but I did 7quarts of spawn to a brick and used a top layer of coir

it either hates the high spawn ratio, the coir pseudocasing, or both.


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Invisiblenatedawgnow
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24177973 - 03/20/17 02:17 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

My bet is on high spawn ratio :shrug:


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InvisibleTheMadHatter420
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Inocuole]
    #24178037 - 03/20/17 02:33 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Hey so will one 13mm syringe filter provide enough GE for a Quart jar, or should I double up? I figure ill use them in all these metal lids I got laying around and just use for grains.


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InvisibleComebackKid
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: natedawgnow]
    #24178329 - 03/20/17 04:06 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Just posted this in bods growlog but I have to agree with you Natedawgnow based off personal experience... but doesn't liloldme use a high spawn ratio?
Is there a possibility this issue could be variety specific?


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