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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: ComebackKid]
#24176021 - 03/19/17 07:59 PM (6 years, 10 months ago) |
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I don't see how soaking doesn't end up with a net increase of bacteria and endospores if the temperature is in any favorable range for more than a hour of two.
Oats work great for me
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PinPornProducer
Buy the ticket, take the ride



Registered: 08/23/14
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bodhisatta]
#24176070 - 03/19/17 08:17 PM (6 years, 10 months ago) |
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Makes sense, its just how fast are the endospores produced?
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Crispykoot
Jello Wrangler



Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 5,921
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bodhisatta]
#24176071 - 03/19/17 08:18 PM (6 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: I don't see how soaking doesn't end up with a net increase of bacteria and endospores if the temperature is in any favorable range for more than a hour of two.
Oats work great for me
Does it matter if there is a net increase in bacterial load before a PC cycle...? I'm not sold on soaking either...Just a question...
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ComebackKid
Multispore Enthusiast



Registered: 05/27/16
Posts: 3,951
Loc: ked in the trunk of a car
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bodhisatta]
#24176076 - 03/19/17 08:19 PM (6 years, 10 months ago) |
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I was very pleased working with oats for the first time. They're in the PC right now. Such a hassle free grain so far! Dry to plump in 20 minutes rolling boil
I usually dry my grains with a fan blowing directly at the strainer in the sink. Oats dry in seconds, where with wheat I would find myself loading them a little wet which would result in a few jars with burst grain clumps in em after PC cycle
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Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care
Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind. Consciousness, the awareness that is experiencing this mind, is peering in from outside the universe. Our individual experiences are all part of the universe's experience of itself
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PinPornProducer
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Registered: 08/23/14
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: ComebackKid]
#24176080 - 03/19/17 08:20 PM (6 years, 10 months ago) |
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I don't even dry my shit
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ComebackKid
Multispore Enthusiast



Registered: 05/27/16
Posts: 3,951
Loc: ked in the trunk of a car
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Weird. With wheat I found if they were too wet that they would jizz all over eachother in the pc and dry that way.
I would always load em a little wet though and even the clumping was never an issue with colonization
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Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care
Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind. Consciousness, the awareness that is experiencing this mind, is peering in from outside the universe. Our individual experiences are all part of the universe's experience of itself
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PinPornProducer
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Registered: 08/23/14
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: ComebackKid]
#24176092 - 03/19/17 08:25 PM (6 years, 10 months ago) |
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Were you loading them hot?
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Josh.0
ConnoissurOfSorts


Registered: 11/25/13
Posts: 553
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 Mmmmmm ooooaaatts! I love you!
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ComebackKid
Multispore Enthusiast



Registered: 05/27/16
Posts: 3,951
Loc: ked in the trunk of a car
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Josh.0]
#24176196 - 03/19/17 09:12 PM (6 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yeah I was loading them warm anyway
Lmao yeeeesss oats so sexy
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Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care
Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind. Consciousness, the awareness that is experiencing this mind, is peering in from outside the universe. Our individual experiences are all part of the universe's experience of itself
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TheMadHatter420
Trusted Farmer


Registered: 10/12/16
Posts: 12,941
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Quote:
PinPornProducer said: Makes sense, its just how fast are the endospores produced?
This made me curious so I looked into it. Turns out that not all bacteria can form endospores, in fact only a few can. Those that can take about 8 hours.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endospore
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TheMadHatter420
Trusted Farmer


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"While significantly resistant to heat and radiation, endospores can be destroyed by burning or by autoclaving at a temperature exceeding the boiling point of water, 100 °C. Endospores are able to survive at 100 °C for hours, although the longer the number of hours the fewer that will survive. An indirect way to destroy them is to place them in an environment that reactivates them to their vegetative state. They will germinate within a day or two with the right environmental conditions, and then the vegetative cells, not as hardy as endospores, can be straightforwardly destroyed"
So It would take a couple day soak to bring them to life to kill them, BUT they would only form endospores when conditions get harsh, and that takes about 8 hours. This is very interesting.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
TheMadHatter420 said: So It would take a couple day soak to bring them to life to kill them, BUT they would only form endospores when conditions get harsh, and that takes about 8 hours. This is very interesting.
They actually form regardless of conditions. If they only formed when conditions were bad it would offer little advantage to the organism.
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TheMadHatter420
Trusted Farmer


Registered: 10/12/16
Posts: 12,941
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Pastywhyte]
#24176367 - 03/19/17 10:25 PM (6 years, 10 months ago) |
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I was under the impression that when nutrients and conditions were good they just divided to reproduce and made endospores as a survival tool when nutrients started to run low.
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PinPornProducer
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Registered: 08/23/14
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That's what I gathered from it also.
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PinPornProducer
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Under conditions of starvation, especially the lack of carbon and nitrogen sources, a single endospore forms within some of the bacteria. The process is called sporulation (def). (Kaiser, 2011)
When a bacterium detects environmental conditions are becoming unfavourable it may start the process of endosporulation, which takes about eight hours.
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PinPornProducer
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
bodhisatta said:
clostridum butyricum from brewers grain(rye malt) it's very heat resistant because of the spores. it is responsible for the most part in the rancid smell if you let grains soak too long. it will survive the boil and is why your grains go bad and smell like puke and Greek feet feta if you don't sterilize them after your grain prep.
it forms endospores even culture on anaerobic plates with an abidance of nutrients. as you can see some subset of the population finds it appropriate to form endospores despite not having "bad conditions" as conditions get worse spore formation goes up. I would be nearly positive you end up with more endospores if you do a soak than if you skip a soak, either way these DO get killed by a PC in a sufficient cycle.
FWIW. Under harsh conditions they produce more endospores, but as populations continue to rise, endospore populations rise too. They always make endospores regardless of conditions, this is a key to their survival.
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TheMadHatter420
Trusted Farmer


Registered: 10/12/16
Posts: 12,941
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Mad Season]
#24176491 - 03/19/17 11:48 PM (6 years, 10 months ago) |
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tonight has been a good learning lesson
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TheMadHatter420
Trusted Farmer


Registered: 10/12/16
Posts: 12,941
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Would these work for SHIP's? If so that's cheap enough to use instead of silicon, Faster to with no drying time. This is the same seller that I managed to get my syringe filters from for cheap.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1000-West-Pharmaceutical-Services-Inc-13-mm-Rubber-Stopper-Grey-/192112341326?hash=item2cbac9b14e:g:N9AAAOSw3v5Yr151
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ComebackKid
Multispore Enthusiast



Registered: 05/27/16
Posts: 3,951
Loc: ked in the trunk of a car
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Quote:
TheMadHatter420 said: tonight has been a good learning lesson
Yeah that tends to happen a lot around here  I love when I ask for a yes or no answer and I get hit with a knowledge bomb and have a whole new appreciation and understanding of the concept. 
Also I cant see those working well as SHIPs. They look dense. But why use SHIPs when you can just open the lid in a SAB?
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Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care
Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind. Consciousness, the awareness that is experiencing this mind, is peering in from outside the universe. Our individual experiences are all part of the universe's experience of itself
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