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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Dendrocopos] 1
#27737329 - 04/16/22 01:13 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Yeah, you're definitely not doing yourself any favors.
Soaking the grain will cause fermentation which will in turn trigger any endospore forming bacilli to endosporulate as the environment becomes increasingly inhospitable to vegetative bacteria...which means more bad/less good; which isn't good.
Boil large serial grains, no soaking.
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Vinci
I'm You



Registered: 08/26/19
Posts: 629
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#27737761 - 04/16/22 08:04 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Just got some coco bliss 10lb bricks, how much water should I prep em with?
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Dendrocopos
Latin woodpecker



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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Inocuole]
#27737765 - 04/16/22 08:08 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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I do 1:3,5. Or do 1:4 and add verm and gypsum later, but not sure if that is advised.
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Vinci
I'm You



Registered: 08/26/19
Posts: 629
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Dendrocopos]
#27737779 - 04/16/22 08:14 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Really? That’s only like 4 gallons I think. I put 7 gal into a 9lb brick of grow!t
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Dendrocopos
Latin woodpecker



Registered: 11/02/21
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Inocuole] 1
#27737797 - 04/16/22 08:30 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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You have to use the one and only right system of grams and milliliters. Water weight = water volume.
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tedoro
ToadStool Tender



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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Vinci]
#27737847 - 04/16/22 09:03 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Vinci said: Just got some coco bliss 10lb bricks, how much water should I prep em with?
I'm having good luck at 1 to 7.5
the recommended 1 to 5 is insanely dry for that brand of coco.
-------------------- -------------------- Deep pour soft agar plates-->bags of WBS-->Low Profile Monos Clean spawn thread | Put a thermometer on your PC
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SpaceBaby
alchemist



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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Vinci]
#27737994 - 04/16/22 11:20 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Vinci said: Just got some coco bliss 10lb bricks, how much water should I prep em with?
i do 1:7 with 2 qts verm per 650-800 gr coir. without about 1:6.
-------------------- SpaceBaby SPACEBABY'S LAGM22 THREAD MUSHBOY'S SHROOM TEA TEK Me as a cube
Another Day's Work:
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CatsLoveHouseMusic
SpeakerFreaker



Registered: 11/03/18
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: SpaceBaby]
#27739428 - 04/17/22 09:31 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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I havnt done mushboys shoebox tek since 2020, and did like 50 boxes. I mix it up and let it sit for like 10 or so days, I don’t recall ever taking the top off though… Just letting them grow in it and harvest.
Is it better to have the top on but not cracked on during “fruiting conditions?” Any variations to this tek you think is better?
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CatsLoveHouseMusic
SpeakerFreaker



Registered: 11/03/18
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Opinions on my shoeboxes? Havnt grown in two years.
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Melgo
Semperviva Fanatic



Registered: 02/11/16
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#27739532 - 04/17/22 11:48 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
p9hu7 said: Yeah, you're definitely not doing yourself any favors.
Soaking the grain will cause fermentation which will in turn trigger any endospore forming bacilli to endosporulate as the environment becomes increasingly inhospitable to vegetative bacteria...which means more bad/less good; which isn't good.
Boil large serial grains, no soaking.
p9hu7, thanks for posting this. I'm looking for wisdom here. I followed one of your previous advice, bought the thick SFD filters you mentioned, it reduce my contamination problems a lot, so thanks man!
But I'm still having some issues with the green monster here, especially with Semperviva.
The way I prep my rye is as following:
- Rince the rye thoroughly
- Bring water to a boil, remove from the stove
- Dump rye into the water, add gypsum, let it soak for 12 hours
- Bring the pan with water and rye to a boil
- Let it boil for 10 minutes
- Drain rye
- Put the rye in front of a fan so that the kernel dry off a bit
- Load into jars
- PC for 1h30-45
From what you are writing, I understand that I should get rid of the 12 hours soak?
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Tweeq
Tweeq of Nature


Registered: 06/07/18
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Loc: Netherlands
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Melgo] 1
#27739584 - 04/18/22 12:55 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Interesting point about soaking and endospores.
I also soak my rye berries for 12 hrs before boiling them.
The reason is that with just boiling I find it hard to get the grains all moist on the inside while the kernels are already bursting from boiling them.
Then after boiling I fan dry the grains untill totally dry on the outside and then load in jars and pc.
Not having to soak would make my life a lot easier but I come to regret it every time I don't do the soaking. Either a lot of burst grains or not fully hydrated.
If there's a reliable way to get them optimally prepped with no soak, I'd like to try it out
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ozbuckley
Stranger
Registered: 09/09/10
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Tweeq]
#27739621 - 04/18/22 01:31 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Hi
I had some cobweb contam in my jars a couple of weeks back. I washed out the jars with hot water and soap.
I just filled them up with grains to PC for 90mins.
I realise now I should've PCd the empty jars beforehand to sterilize properly.
Am I right in thinking that the jars with grains in them will be sterilised ok after their PC, but the room I was in when the jars were opened before PCing is a risk for contams?
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Tweeq
Tweeq of Nature


Registered: 06/07/18
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: ozbuckley]
#27739645 - 04/18/22 02:34 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
ozbuckley said: Hi
I had some cobweb contam in my jars a couple of weeks back. I washed out the jars with hot water and soap.
I just filled them up with grains to PC for 90mins.
I realise now I should've PCd the empty jars beforehand to sterilize properly.
Am I right in thinking that the jars with grains in them will be sterilised ok after their PC, but the room I was in when the jars were opened before PCing is a risk for contams?
Id say no. The pc cycle should kill everything present in the jar. That's why we do it.
I don't think anybody sterilizes their empty jars. Pointless imo
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ozbuckley
Stranger
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Tweeq]
#27739655 - 04/18/22 03:11 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tweeq said:
Quote:
ozbuckley said: Hi
I had some cobweb contam in my jars a couple of weeks back. I washed out the jars with hot water and soap.
I just filled them up with grains to PC for 90mins.
I realise now I should've PCd the empty jars beforehand to sterilize properly.
Am I right in thinking that the jars with grains in them will be sterilised ok after their PC, but the room I was in when the jars were opened before PCing is a risk for contams?
Id say no. The pc cycle should kill everything present in the jar. That's why we do it.
I don't think anybody sterilizes their empty jars. Pointless imo
Thanks for the info.
I read another thread where people sterilized their empty jars that had contam in them.
Fingers crossed the spawn jars will be ok after the PC
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Tweeq
Tweeq of Nature


Registered: 06/07/18
Posts: 2,043
Loc: Netherlands
Last seen: 7 hours, 42 minutes
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: ozbuckley]
#27739658 - 04/18/22 03:20 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
ozbuckley said:
Quote:
Tweeq said:
Quote:
ozbuckley said: Hi
I had some cobweb contam in my jars a couple of weeks back. I washed out the jars with hot water and soap.
I just filled them up with grains to PC for 90mins.
I realise now I should've PCd the empty jars beforehand to sterilize properly.
Am I right in thinking that the jars with grains in them will be sterilised ok after their PC, but the room I was in when the jars were opened before PCing is a risk for contams?
Id say no. The pc cycle should kill everything present in the jar. That's why we do it.
I don't think anybody sterilizes their empty jars. Pointless imo
Thanks for the info.
I read another thread where people sterilized their empty jars that had contam in them.
Fingers crossed the spawn jars will be ok after the PC
I haven't noticed any problems with not pre sterilizing jars over the last 1000 pc cycles 
Reconsider if you fully understand the principle of what is sterile if you have to ask this question. There are some good posts by TC about this topic to be found at the trusted teks page that will clear things up.
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CatsLoveHouseMusic
SpeakerFreaker



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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Tweeq]
#27739686 - 04/18/22 04:23 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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These are my first shoeboxes after quitting growing late 2020, thoughts? 2.5 qts verm per coco brick, little less water than bods bucket tek calls for. Havnt opened it til now but seems little wet? Suggestions? I would rarely mess with a shoebox, seems to make things worse!


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Nillion
Nobody

Registered: 04/14/22
Posts: 1,000
Loc: Terra Firma
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Inocuole] 1
#27739736 - 04/18/22 06:06 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Mycotoxins can explain certain grain batch performance failures that are not endospore related, such bad batches of grain can be treated using nixtamalization.
The chemical changes that occur in nixtamalization, particularly in terms of dealing with hemicellulose but also in terms of the changing the structure of the medium both microscopically and microscopically; are particularly useful in the preparation of selective media as well as the removal and or de-activation of mycotoxins made by fungi that grow on grain in natural settings (like Aspergillus) and in storage silos.
The Nixtamalization process is widely employed in mycology, but is not recognized as such. It can be rather useful.
Using alkaline material to treat contaminants, to soak straw, adding ashes to cultures and many other common techniques rely upon the process of nixtamalization to be effective.
Some failures can thus be seen as nixtamalization stochiometric failures where the reaction fails to complete. Among the issues that arise are supplementation issues where lime soaking methods fail once supplements are added, yet some people have been reporting success with supplements and not using sterilization.
Examples abound here where people show their success here and those who have failed at the same thing show up insult the person for succeeding where others have failed. Some successes are not worth showing for this reason.
The selectivity of Ca-hydroxide treated substrates is a very poorly understood topic at this point, some cultivators may want to explore that. It isn't the pH that makes the material selective. When it is rinsed the selectivity remains because of the chemical changes to the structures of cellulose, hemicellulose, pectin and lignin (among other things)
One word of advice, this is basic stuff but not for people starting out in mycology. There are no public teks for this material and if you don't know what the structures of Hemicellulose and cellulose are (they are made of sugar) then you probably aren't ready to explore methods of altering their structures using caustic agents.
However the chemistry and process involved are still far too basic (get it?) to include them under Advanced Mycology.
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Melgo] 1
#27739754 - 04/18/22 06:31 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Melgo said: The way I prep my rye is as following:
- Rince the rye thoroughly
- Bring water to a boil, remove from the stove
- Dump rye into the water, add gypsum, let it soak for 12 hours
- Bring the pan with water and rye to a boil
- Let it boil for 10 minutes
- Drain rye
- Put the rye in front of a fan so that the kernel dry off a bit
- Load into jars
- PC for 1h30-45
From what you are writing, I understand that I should get rid of the 12 hours soak?
Continue to rinse your grains thoroughly, No need for gypsum. No need to soak, it's 100% unnecessary.
Boiling is the mechanism to hydrate; rolling boil until the starchy core turns from white to clrear. Check by removing grains from the pot periodically to cut them in half to view the interior of the kernel.

The kernel on the left is fully hydrated. Dump and dry your grains when most of your grains are nearly fully hydrated, but before they turn to mush; a sliver of white in the center is fine, just don't over cook them until they are mushy.
Make sure that the exterior of your grains are dry before loading into jars.
Pc your jars for 2-2.5 hours, you're not running them long enough. If you're having issues then I'd say to run for 2.5 hours and ensure that you vent your pc for 15 mins after the lid lock pops up.
Edit:
There is no requirement whatsoever to pre sterilize your jars but do make sure that they are clean. Wash them as though they were dishes that you intend to eat or drink from and this will be plenty.
Your pressure cooker/autoclave has to penetrate your load, using dirty jars will impact the efficiency of the pc to penetrate that load.
Edited by Stipe-n Cap (04/18/22 06:57 AM)
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Melgo
Semperviva Fanatic



Registered: 02/11/16
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#27739830 - 04/18/22 07:55 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Thanks a lot Mate! I really appreciate it
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A.k.a
Stranger



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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Melgo]
#27739853 - 04/18/22 08:19 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Those shoeboxes look good, just need time.
The pcing moldy jars is done before you clean them out so you’re not breathing in tons of live mold spores when you open the jars.
--------------------
LAGM2020     
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