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sandman420
Saint PP



Registered: 06/17/04
Posts: 5,384
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: natedawgnow] 1
#27675598 - 02/27/22 02:00 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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The hangup is that there is no such thing as "atmospheric sterilization" it's just a misnomer as true sterility is blah blah blah. That's the end of the problem here. There is definitely not a 100% success with steamed bags from my experience.
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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: sandman420]
#27675607 - 02/27/22 02:09 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Not sure if you mean steamed bags of grain or supped sub. Steamed grain is hit or miss unless you do it for a really long time which can lead to mushy spawn.
Again though, this conversation was about water, not sub or spawn or anything else. Just water
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sandman420
Saint PP



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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: sandman420]
#27675608 - 02/27/22 02:09 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
sandman420 said: The hangup is that there is no such thing as "atmospheric sterilization" it's just a misnomer as true sterility is blah blah blah. That's the end of the problem here. There is definitely not a 100% success with steamed bags from my experience.
Think of it this way: Steaming PF jars works. PCing PF jars works better. Maybe 99% vs 100% but you get it.
And I know people that steam grain bags in their big steamers end up getting tired of losing batches and looking for a better way and don't expect near 100%.
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sandman420
Saint PP



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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: sandman420]
#27675612 - 02/27/22 02:11 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Yes water is what the end result of my argument lies but you were using atmospheric sterilization as a point which my retort is that doesn't exist.
The facts are that boiling water kills MOST germs. That's the end of the argument. You may or may not have issues it's a big wide world with a lot of water.
Edited by sandman420 (02/27/22 02:13 PM)
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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: natedawgnow]
#27675615 - 02/27/22 02:12 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Yes lets nit pick.
You know as well as I do that that is common nomenclature around here and hardly represents the root of this disagreement, sandman
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sandman420
Saint PP



Registered: 06/17/04
Posts: 5,384
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: natedawgnow]
#27675617 - 02/27/22 02:13 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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The facts are that boiling water kills MOST germs. That's the end of the argument. You may or may not have issues it's a big wide world with a lot of water.
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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: sandman420]
#27675619 - 02/27/22 02:15 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Ya and nobody here is using lake water for their spore syringes.
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sandman420
Saint PP



Registered: 06/17/04
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: natedawgnow] 1
#27675623 - 02/27/22 02:17 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Hope not!
Boiling water is accepted as the safest way to kill MOST germs.
I am also not arguing that anyone would really have any trouble just the fact that it may not be truly sterile, which is what everyone is saying I think. I think were all in agreeance really.
Guns down!
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QM33
(NOT A PUPPET!) ❤❤❤❤❤



Registered: 04/09/20
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Loc: Oregon
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: natedawgnow]
#27675648 - 02/27/22 02:40 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
natedawgnow said: Not sure if you mean steamed bags of grain or supped sub. Steamed grain is hit or miss unless you do it for a really long time which can lead to mushy spawn.
Again though, this conversation was about water, not sub or spawn or anything else. Just water
I've been wanting to try no prep steamed grains because of this. I used to think it was caramelization or starch but I wonder if it could just be super mushy.. idk ha.
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ozbuckley
Stranger
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: QM33]
#27675727 - 02/27/22 03:59 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Hi,
I'm growing my first LC jar at the moment. It's been going for a week and I stir it every day.
I'm just wanting to know when is the growing of the LC considered done? The culture has now grown to around 1/3 of the liquid. Would the grow be complete when the culture almost reaches the surface of the water?
Pic: https://ibb.co/ZV6hV0N
Thanks
Edited by ozbuckley (02/27/22 03:59 PM)
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QM33
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Registered: 04/09/20
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: ozbuckley]
#27675733 - 02/27/22 04:05 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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I think it really depends on how much nutrients you put in it. Like if you put little to none in you could expect little to no mycelium. You might wait a few more days. But if you shake it up really good and there are mycelium fragments consistently throughout, in a decent quality, you could probably use it.
Putting a small amount of agar, in your liquid culture, helps to keep the mycelium from clumping back together like I'm the picture, and seems to help it grow faster and more evenly because of that. Look up SSLC in the search engine, semi solid liquid culture.
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ModularMind
M.P.F.



Registered: 02/09/10
Posts: 7,902
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: QM33]
#27675769 - 02/27/22 04:40 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
natedawgnow said: Ya and nobody here is using lake water for their spore syringes.
Sky 🌌 tears. 😢
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AphexPin
Strange

Registered: 02/22/22
Posts: 464
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: QM33]
#27675778 - 02/27/22 04:46 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Been having a problem for a few months where my cultures look super thin and wispy on agar. I know it's clean though cuz I fruited a bunch of stuff in a bunch of sterilzed bulk sub bags (w/ grains and coir), and I took some swabs from these in-vitro fruits to check if the problem persisted through spores, and it did. I know this can be due to nutritiant issues, but I use standard agar recipes, 12-18g of LME and 15-18g agar per L of water, and I cook anywhere from 20min to an hour, and I pour pretty thin plates. Temps in room with agar plates are kept around 68-72 via inkbird, and my water quality from tap is great (but maybe they changed something recently). One thing I do that's maybe worth noting is I leave plates out at room temp for awhile before using. But usually I cook up two 500ml bottles and use one up immediately, and save the other stack of poured plates, so if that were an issue I'd think half my plates would look good, but they don't. They all look bad.
Aside from taking better notes and running a bunch of agar recipe experiments (which I'll start today), anything else I should consider? It's cross culture and happened around the same time, and I'm not getting obvious contams like trich or shiny bacteria colonies so I don't think my technique is introducing anything into the mess. I was worried I had diseased myc or something so I started over from spores, but the issue still persists. I'm thinking about ordering some new agar and malt if running deliberate experiments doesn't fix this. Anything else I should consider?
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Mateja



Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: QM33]
#27675839 - 02/27/22 05:18 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
QM33 said: I think it really depends on how much nutrients you put in it. Like if you put little to none in you could expect little to no mycelium.
"I think" ".. Like"
Well if you ever made LC's with different nutrient density you'd know that it makes absolutely no difference neither in overall speed of growth nor in the amount of myc you eventually produce. Myc grown in 0.1% nutrient solution grows at the same speed as myc grown in 2% LC. Now I have to wonder if you pulled those stats right out of a magic hat or what when you come up with that answer?
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
Edited by Mateja (02/27/22 05:20 PM)
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QM33
(NOT A PUPPET!) ❤❤❤❤❤



Registered: 04/09/20
Posts: 4,739
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Mateja]
#27675863 - 02/27/22 05:33 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Those stats? Like the I think stats? Idk man some people make their solutions pretty weak these days. Like .2 and .5% seem to make a bit of a difference in how much myc you get. Or I guess I've tried some really light recipes and it seems to produce thicker mycelium. Same thing on agar, less nutes usually leads to thinner myc, and adding things like yeast does seem to change it's appeance as well.
So your telling me I can put .01, .05 .1, .2, .5 or even 1% of a nutrient in LC and expect the same results.?
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Mateja] 2
#27675872 - 02/27/22 05:43 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Anyone who says that you can't sterilize at atmospheric is a fucking noob not worth arguing with, same goes for anyone saying that tap water needs anything other than a short rolling boil. There are zero thermophiles in tap water, don't be an idiot.
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QM33
(NOT A PUPPET!) ❤❤❤❤❤



Registered: 04/09/20
Posts: 4,739
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#27675882 - 02/27/22 05:48 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Read the links. Don't get a canner.
-------------------- OmManiPadmeHum,OmManiPadmeHum, OmManiPadMeHum... There are known knowns, there are known unknowns, there are also unknown unknowns. With great privilege comes great responsibility.
  Quantom Qups PROOF AND Soft Drops Turn your Swab to a Syringe and Syringe to Multiple Syringes! No Pours (QuantomStyal)Magic Fruit Leather DMT for IandI
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: natedawgnow] 2
#27675896 - 02/27/22 05:57 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
natedawgnow said: Dude, steam sterilization works at atmospheric pressure at 212f.
Ask anybody who does large scale edible production. Seriously I hate to bicker but you are way off base if you say that atmospheric steam sterilizing doesnt work
Not saying anything about it except you got the definition wrong. Don't accuse me of basic ignorance.
If you leave endospores out of the picture then boiling does the job just fine, or steam at boiling temp. That's just common knowledge.
Why I put up jam in a boiling water bath, not in a fucking PC.
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
Edited by PrimalSoup (02/27/22 06:12 PM)
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Mateja



Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: QM33] 1
#27675900 - 02/27/22 05:59 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
QM33 said: Like .2 and .5% seem to make a bit of a difference in how much myc you get.
Do you have a source for this? Or is this from the magic hat again?
Quote:
Same thing on agar, less nutes usually leads to thinner myc.
You can't compare a solid and a liquid medium when it comes to nutrient density and the ability to utilize nutrients. Anything less than 2% nutrients in agar would result in the colony visibly struggling.
Quote:
So your telling me I can put .01, .05 .1, .2, .5 or even 1% of a nutrient in LC and expect the same results.?
That's what the side by side experiments I've been doing seem to demonstrate.
Quote:
Mateja said: I made 5 liquid cultures in varying strengths of ELME at 0.1%, 0.2%, 0.4%, 0.8%, and 1.5% strength. I inoculated all LC´s with the same clone using The Biopsy Method by Josex.
Updates 12 days after inoculation Jan 3 0.1% 0.2% 0.4% 0.8% 1.5%
     18 days after inoculation Jan 9
     25 days after inoculation, Jan 16
     31 days after inoculation, Jan 22
     38 days after inoculation, Jan 29
     43 days after inoculation Feb 12
     64 days after inoculation Mar 5
   [url=http://files.shroomery.org/files/18-10/029709810-C721BD44-7541-41C9-8C43-A5A4E5EDADB9.jpg] [/url
All I'm trying to say here is maybe try to refrain from making 'matter of fact statements' about stuff you're speculating about or just going off of intuition or whatever. Chances are someone will start to quote you and then someone will quote that person and before you know it I'm over here with my panties in a bunch trying to debunk every statement making me look like a Hitler
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
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sandman420
Saint PP



Registered: 06/17/04
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Mateja]
#27675902 - 02/27/22 06:02 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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I also find no difference in how much a LC will colonize depending on nutrition. They seem to fill up about halfway and stop no matter how nutritious. I do a lotta lc.
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