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InvisibleMunchauzen
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Registered: 06/22/11
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Lemgrub]
    #27602990 - 01/01/22 09:32 PM (2 years, 27 days ago)

I haven't used anything besides unmodded in probably 5 years. No need to waste poly or foil. Although, the lids do tend to get ruined from rust after prolonged use. They work too good to use anything else, imo.


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InvisibleScrimshaw
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Lemgrub]
    #27603069 - 01/01/22 10:51 PM (2 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Lemgrub said:
How can one tell if their bacteria problems are coming from improper sterilization? Using a PC has never been an issue for me, but I moved several months ago and haven't had a successful grow since. The change in elevation was greater than 2500 feet, and I'm wondering if I'm simply not making the grains sterile even though I vent 10 minutes after the pressure lock engages, and start my timer of 2 hours once the psi hits 17?

What are the characteristics of bacillus and clostridium species on colonized grains? Does it look like clear condensation?



I thought I had identified the source of my bacteria a month ago, and now that the 20 or so jars I inoculated over several sessions from different cultures have fully colonized, they all still present this clear bacteria. No other contaminant has presented.




Have you spawned any of the jars you think are bacterial? What happens?

Condensation in jars, while a sign of bacterial infection, could be something as simple as wetter grain prep or temp swings in the room or the difference between warmer colonizing myc and the cooler air outside the jar.

Bacteria is the toughest contam to diagnose in my opinion because it looks just normal enough to slip by unnoticed unlike trich and other colored molds.

I'm just curious whether you're getting mold/trich after spawning your jars that look like that or if you're just thinking it's bacteria because it's a little wet.


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OfflineSalty Dog
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Inocuole]
    #27603077 - 01/01/22 11:04 PM (2 years, 27 days ago)

First time growing.  I feel like the tub is ready to fruit but
looking for second opinion.


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OfflineNichrome
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Registered: 12/17/18
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Salty Dog]
    #27603083 - 01/01/22 11:08 PM (2 years, 27 days ago)

Welcome Salty Dog.

Although there does seem to be some mishap occurring with fresh air exchange and humidity the sub you have there looks like it should make some fruits. When it is ready is really up to it and nobody else. All you can do is try to keep the conditions right and wait for fruits.


--------------------
Better to be deprived of food for three days, than tea for one.


Freedom is not the right to do as you please, but the liberty to do as you should. ~Emerson


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OfflineSalty Dog
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Nichrome]
    #27603090 - 01/01/22 11:13 PM (2 years, 27 days ago)

Thanks Nichrome.  What issues do you see in the sub?  What are the indicators/red flags?


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OfflineNichrome
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Salty Dog]
    #27603099 - 01/01/22 11:20 PM (2 years, 27 days ago)

Seems a bit dry.


--------------------
Better to be deprived of food for three days, than tea for one.


Freedom is not the right to do as you please, but the liberty to do as you should. ~Emerson


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InvisibleMunchauzen
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Salty Dog] * 1
    #27603136 - 01/02/22 12:07 AM (2 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Salty Dog said:
Thanks Nichrome.  What issues do you see in the sub?  What are the indicators/red flags?



The FC itself is not made up properly, which hinders conditions. Even though painters tape is paper, its not porous, as that would allow paint to seep through when painters attempt to make an edge. this means theres no FAE occurring at your holes where there should be. You should use micropore tape or polyfil (pillow stuffing). Also, it appears you've taped your liner to the monotub, which is against procedure. The liner needs to shrink with the substrate as moisture evaporates out of it, so that a microclimate is not created by the gap between the substrate and the tub.

You can learn more about the basics of a monotub here https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20356759/fpart/all


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InvisibleQM33
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Munchauzen]
    #27603299 - 01/02/22 06:47 AM (2 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Munchauzen said:
I haven't used anything besides unmodded in probably 5 years. No need to waste poly or foil. Although, the lids do tend to get ruined from rust after prolonged use. They work too good to use anything else, imo.




Unmodded plastic? *No stop cock or flowhood?


Edited by QM33 (01/02/22 07:51 AM)


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InvisibleLemgrub
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Scrimshaw]
    #27603303 - 01/02/22 06:56 AM (2 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Scrimshaw said:

Have you spawned any of the jars you think are bacterial? What happens?






They fully colonize, then take forever to knot (21 days or more), and either develop mold or yeast right around when it tries to pin. I have several bags and tubs spawned at the beginning of December that just started to show knots and green at the same time.

It's taking forever to correctly diagnose this shit. I won't even be embarrassed if I haven't been PCing correctly, just very relieved.


--------------------
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OfflineSpaceBaby
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Crackatoa]
    #27603449 - 01/02/22 09:13 AM (2 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Crackatoa said:
Quote:

Lemgrub said:
Quote:

sandman420 said:
There is a about 1.3 psi difference in absolute atmospheric pressure in 2500 feet of elevation so try knocking your pressure up a few psi to counter this. It could be all you need to do to get rid of your bacteria issues.




Yes, in a few days I'll prep grain again and run it at ~18psi for 2.5hours. Will run my metal modded lids against the old plastic unmodded lids that served me pretty well in the past to test the lid variable as well. And revisit PC operation, sometimes I put the rocker on when they gauge reads 1-2 psi but not pure steam is coming out, more like a sputter.




I vent mine for 15min. I want pure steam coming out if it get's to 14min and big burst of air hit's I'll add 5 min.





I have been venting 22 minutes on the Presto and on the 75x I pre-vent 5 minutes, run pressure to 20 PSI and then vent 22 minutes before coming up to the run at 18-22 PSI.

:shrug:


--------------------
SpaceBaby
SPACEBABY'S LAGM22 THREAD
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InvisibleMunchauzen
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: QM33]
    #27603559 - 01/02/22 10:17 AM (2 years, 27 days ago)

presto with a weighted rocker and still air box

fast forward to 5:40 you can see how I use my PC


doing a bunch of G2G in my SAB


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InvisibleQM33
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Munchauzen]
    #27603588 - 01/02/22 10:31 AM (2 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Lemgrub said:
Quote:

QM33 said:
I'm not talking about it holding a vacuum, I'm talking about it sucking air into you PC, through the unsealed rim of the jar during the cooling process.




That's exactly what im talking about. If the PC is still evolving steam/heat which it is for roughly 30-60 minutes after the pressure lock disengages, there's positive pressure. No ambient air is going in. You take the jar out still warm and once the jar reaches room temp, the pressure is equal inside of it and out. At no point would there be airflow going into the jar. It clearly works for many people, myself included.

And noted Crack and Mista, I'll build up a full head of steam
:billymaythumbup:
Already takes about 45minutes from lid latch to 10min after pressure lock, shits taking too long




And from what I understand it's not even about when it's losing pressure that forms the vaccuum. Even when the pressure Guage is at 0 after a run, steam takes up thousands of times more space than water, so as the steam turns back into water (unpressurized) it is reducing the space it takes up significantly, and will replace that space with outside air, unless you have a stopcock, and if your running unmodded with plastic you can visualize your jars as "mini pressure cookers/vessels", acting just like your PC. And if the air is entering through an unfiltered channel, your asking for contamination I would think.
I was going to ask if you flipped your lids munch but clearly you do. And maybe it's working better for munch because he cools in the ) PC, and the metal might have less than a gap than plastic.
It's not impossible, I rember bod or someone I think saying there are gooseneck flasks sterilized with agar from like the earlier 1900s, so it's possible for sure. Just some considerations of variables I suppose.



** And to go along with that.. hot air will take up more space than cold air? So say it's a hot day going into a cold night, a container, a jar or a PC, as it cools, the air contracts pulling more in... Right?


Edited by QM33 (01/02/22 10:40 AM)


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Lemgrub] * 1
    #27603722 - 01/02/22 12:21 PM (2 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Lemgrub said:
How can one tell if their bacteria problems are coming from improper sterilization? Using a PC has never been an issue for me, but I moved several months ago and haven't had a successful grow since. The change in elevation was greater than 2500 feet, and I'm wondering if I'm simply not making the grains sterile even though I vent 10 minutes after the pressure lock engages, and start my timer of 2 hours once the psi hits 17?

What are the characteristics of bacillus and clostridium species on colonized grains? Does it look like clear condensation?



I thought I had identified the source of my bacteria a month ago, and now that the 20 or so jars I inoculated over several sessions from different cultures have fully colonized, they all still present this clear bacteria. No other contaminant has presented.




May be late response but that looks like common mold contam.  I've gotten that often due to infiltration through SFDs or lid and it shows more with elevated growth temps.  It could be hitchhiking on the myc itself rather than surviving the PC cycle which should be sufficient in your case.


--------------------

if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Wheat Prep 2.0  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 


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InvisibleQM33
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #27603735 - 01/02/22 12:29 PM (2 years, 27 days ago)

That's what I was going to say as well honestly..

**Unless maybe it's not cube myc.
But also if it were mold it looks like it's all mold... So that kind of through me off. I would also think it starts turning black or grey soon if that's the case. But it sounds like you've been fruiting stuff like that..?


Edited by QM33 (01/02/22 12:31 PM)


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OfflineBan
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: QM33]
    #27603757 - 01/02/22 12:46 PM (2 years, 27 days ago)

I would also like an eye on my tubs please.





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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: QM33]
    #27603758 - 01/02/22 12:46 PM (2 years, 27 days ago)

Whatever it is it's really pernicious and has ruined more jars than I'd care to count.  If it's there but unseen one shake will spread it all through the grain.  When you vent there has to be pure steam coming out.  If the time to pressure is slow Lemgrub maybe the venting is not effective which would render the PC cycle insufficient despite the time...  :shrug:


--------------------

if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Wheat Prep 2.0  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 


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InvisibleLemgrub
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #27603860 - 01/02/22 01:54 PM (2 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
Whatever it is it's really pernicious and has ruined more jars than I'd care to count.  If it's there but unseen one shake will spread it all through the grain.  When you vent there has to be pure steam coming out.  If the time to pressure is slow Lemgrub maybe the venting is not effective which would render the PC cycle insufficient despite the time...  :shrug:




Yeah I reviewed some PC basics I forgot about, such as the differences in partial pressure between air and steam and how it influences temp

From Bods PC tek

Quote:

Bodhissata said:
if you do not properly vent there will be air trapped in your jars still and in the void space in the cooker. Your gauge will eventually read 15psi but if you know anything about partial pressure you will not actually be at 15psi of steam pressure but X psi of steam and Y psi of air where X+Y=15. This means you're sterilizing at a lower temperature than expected. In a static volume each gas in a mixture exerts the pressure it would as if it were the only gas in that volume. All of these partial pressures add up to the total pressure you see on the gauge. This is Dalton's law of partial pressure.

Say you still have 10% air left from improper venting. If your gauge reads 15psi you're actually at ~116.5C or ~242F. Not only that but it actually makes the steam transfer heat less effectively so it's a compounded problem




And if I have a ride along mold on all 8-9 of my cultures through various generations of transfer plates... :hang:

However I have serious doubts about that. I usually shake some jars at full colonization to check for smell and recovery. Both are normal, at least in the master jars. Recovery after full colonization becomes worse after I expand the master. And I have a pretty good eye for mold vs cube.

Thanks all for your constructive feedback. I have more confidence I'll sort this out soon.


--------------------
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Invisiblebigfootscreepyuncl
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Lemgrub]
    #27603986 - 01/02/22 02:57 PM (2 years, 27 days ago)

What is everyone paying for gloves right now? I just got back from bigbox store and they were trying to charge $23 for a box of the shitty, low quality nitrile gloves! I think I have like 3 individual gloves left right now so I wont be getting much work done until I figure that out


--------------------



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InvisibleScrimshaw
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bigfootscreepyuncl] * 1
    #27604009 - 01/02/22 03:09 PM (2 years, 27 days ago)

I just paid $29.99 for 400 gloves (200 pair) from a popular membership warehouse store.


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InvisibleMr Piggy
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bigfootscreepyuncl]
    #27604017 - 01/02/22 03:11 PM (2 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

bigfootscreepyuncl said:
What is everyone paying for gloves right now? I just got back from bigbox store and they were trying to charge $23 for a box of the shitty, low quality nitrile gloves! I think I have like 3 individual gloves left right now so I wont be getting much work done until I figure that out




19.99 for good nitrile, but honestly I just wash my hands really well and rub down with alcohol before working :shrug:


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