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LtLurker
Lost Sailor



Registered: 01/03/18
Posts: 7,535
Loc: Borderlands
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#27416629 - 08/06/21 09:41 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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It's been stuck in my head as true ever since bod corrected me on it, and later saw mixed tubs perform like crosses. Maybe something's changed in the last couple years, but i personally doubt it.
Not the hill i wanna die on either ya know.
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: LtLurker]
#27416638 - 08/06/21 09:45 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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You are 100% correct when you say that mixing spawn creates crosses, but this is due to the mating of compatible monokaryons, and dikaryons finding compatible monokaryons.
This is what happens when you mix 2 jars of different ms spawn together, or ms spawn with clone spawn, but not two batches of clones...make sense? Because clones are dikaryotic due to having fruited, they no longer carry monokaryotic hyphae, so there no room for anastomosis.
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LtLurker
Lost Sailor



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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#27416643 - 08/06/21 09:54 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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I see what you're saying. This been tested trying to cross 2 clones?
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: LtLurker] 1
#27416657 - 08/06/21 10:08 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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You can't cross two sets of 100% dikaryotic hyphae, this is why workman germinated single spore cultures and let them run on grain, then when fully colonized he introduced either ms spore solution or even cloned mycelium to the jar for mating/crossing.
You could even do the opposite: If the jar was 100% dikaryotic (clone spawn) you could then inject ms spore solution into that spawn to make a cross but this would probably be far less effective because there would probably be far fewer connections being made, due to having to rely on buller phenomenon for the new monokaryons to exchange nuclei. Far better to just spawn your clone spawn with ms spawn.
Dikaryons can only exchange nuclear information down to monokaryons. I'm sure that there are processes in other species that don't follow this rule but it is definitely true for our species.
I've tried crossing my best clones with each other, I thought that I had succeeded in combining their traits at first but came to realize I had some confirmation bias.
They don't cross.
Edited by Stipe-n Cap (08/06/21 10:26 AM)
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Feasoghorm

Registered: 10/24/18
Posts: 4,384
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#27416738 - 08/06/21 11:44 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Lol ok ok, calm your sphincters. I forget about the multiple layers of anal retentiveness floating around. Yall musta thought i was spouting off. Difficult to get tone from txt at times. I see what your after now.
Yeah, i dnt knw of any scientific literature proving that dikaryotic hyphae mate or cross. I was under the impression that you can get a cross from mixing varieties of spawn (seemingly dikaryotic hyphae). Figured i had seen it happen myself. Good enough for my shit One of the many reasons i'll never be a TC 
That's a trip that there cud still be monokaryotic hyphae still cruzing around in a jar of spawn thats been shook a couple times and was inoculated from a small wedge taken from like T7 plates.
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LtLurker
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Feasoghorm] 1
#27416756 - 08/06/21 12:00 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Feasoghorm said: Lol ok ok, calm your sphincters. I forget about the multiple layers of anal retentiveness floating around. Yall musta thought i was spouting off. Difficult to get tone from txt at times. I see what your after now.
Yeah, i dnt knw of any scientific literature proving that dikaryotic hyphae mate or cross. I was under the impression that you can get a cross from mixing varieties of spawn (seemingly dikaryotic hyphae). Figured i had seen it happen myself. Good enough for my shit One of the many reasons i'll never be a TC 
That's a trip that there cud still be monokaryotic hyphae still cruzing around in a jar of spawn thats been shook a couple times and was inoculated from a small wedge taken from like T7 plates.
no one's angry.
I mean, we're right that myc can be used to cross and we've seen it happen, it's just the specifics on dikaryotic and monokaryotic that we may not be 100% accurate on. We don't need to be scientists though. Kinda like the true sterility question with grains; it's interesting and may be significant at some point, but right now what actually matters is how it plays out in practice imo. Growing can be a bit of an art and science, you don't need to be a master of either to get results.
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: LtLurker]
#27416781 - 08/06/21 12:23 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yeah man, I agree. There's no way for any of us to prove anything but we can get a pretty reasonable practical answer to our questions with just a little digging.
Nobody studies Psilocybe and it's behavior so we have to make inferences from other closely related species.
Same with sterility, I can't prove the absence of something, however I can prove whether it's something that's even worth worrying about by putting our spawn through the ringer to see what happens.
Practical application is what's key.
Is it practical to worry about endospores?
Is it practical to have a cursory understanding of the life cycle of mycelium?
I think yes for the later (particularlyif you'reinterested in crossing), I will soon have an answer for the former.
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LtLurker
Lost Sailor



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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#27416785 - 08/06/21 12:26 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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yea i should clarify. Knowing you can't cross cloneXclone because of di/mono is useful. I didn't intend to dismiss it as not important at all.
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multifractal
Student


Registered: 05/08/15
Posts: 1,019
Loc: Cumtown
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#27416869 - 08/06/21 01:30 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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I disagree on your point of practical application being key. Gleaning a better understanding of how life, in all of its forms, works in this strange universe is the ultimate goal for me, not a tub full of mushrooms. That's not to say one goal is superior to another of course but the first question when conversing about science simply should not be "ok how does this apply to production/industry" in my opinion.
In the academic world, practical applications of theoretical work are sometimes discovered decades after the fact as well and were not the main driving force behind those theories. The fact that most people here are not trained scientists seems besides the point. There are some bright, curious people here and it strikes me as a wasted opportunity to put aside the search for truth when we could work together on it. Why, you may ask? Well because truth is beauty and beauty is truth and what's better than beauty?
I spend most of time in "real life" trying to solve computer science/Number theory proofs that have little bearing on life but through years of what some might call pointless work the way that i think and see the world has been radically transformed. The veins in a leaf, the waves at the beach, the wreckage from earthquakes, the sclera of a goat, the membrane of a grasshoppers wing now hint to me at something so large, fractal, and beautiful that it takes my breath away sometimes. While many might say, chill dude this is OMC we're talking about, I honestly don't see much of a difference between all that shit and growing some mushrooms.
Sorry for the ramble even though I know quite a few of you might agree, probably should take a break from this site.
Don't underestimate yourself; that's what They want.
Edited by multifractal (08/06/21 02:11 PM)
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: multifractal]
#27416883 - 08/06/21 01:39 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Not a ramble, I'm sure plenty of people agree, I definitely agree.
I was just saying that its difficult to come to any definitive conclusions but this shouldn't dissuade people from pushing the limits of inquiry.
Saying that we're not scientists though is actually inaccurate, if we're using the scientific method to investigate then we are citizen scientists, many citizen scientists have been self taught and have changed the course of history. Charles Darwin comes to mind.
People should not underestimate themselves , pursue your interests for the sake of the interest and who knows what you may discover.
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Failboat
Fuck Up
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: LtLurker]
#27416885 - 08/06/21 01:40 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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In like February I mixed Melmac with RW and TWC with cross streaking. I also did TWC and RW together I'm excited for the F2s, and the F1 are about what I'd have expected so far. Through my laziness I actually went to plate pin/fruit clones on some of the cultures of the germ plates. Now I have cultures on proper selected clones and F2 streaks.My clones will provide lots of potential for even more F2 so that could be wonderous if I swab ALL the things!
So how cold/warm do yall colonize at? I'm running like 70°F and it seems slow. 5 day LC my ass 
Gonna learn a lot more about life if you study in the field instead of trying to glean off the reports of others.
Edited by Failboat (08/06/21 01:42 PM)
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multifractal
Student


Registered: 05/08/15
Posts: 1,019
Loc: Cumtown
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#27416893 - 08/06/21 01:43 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Definitely agree. The idea that formal education is needed to be a scientist is very pretentious and stifling although these days it is increasingly difficult to make meaningful contributions to science without an education. Darwin is a great example. Back in the day these type of people were called naturalists.
Edited by multifractal (08/06/21 06:23 PM)
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multifractal
Student


Registered: 05/08/15
Posts: 1,019
Loc: Cumtown
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Failboat]
#27416897 - 08/06/21 01:45 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gonna learn a lot more about life if you study in the field instead of trying to glean off the reports of others.
Obviously but you can study independently and talk on online forums at the same time if you weren't aware. Highly recommend it when you're taking a break from all of your *cough* rigorous field study *cough*
Edited by multifractal (08/06/21 02:10 PM)
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Failboat
Fuck Up
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: multifractal]
#27416904 - 08/06/21 01:49 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Consume the information in full, no gleaning!
But seriously, what temps are people running?
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: multifractal]
#27416919 - 08/06/21 01:57 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Someone was just telling me they thought the universe was a fractal. Good stuff, thanks for sharing your ramble.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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QM33
(NOT A PUPPET!) ❤❤❤❤❤



Registered: 04/09/20
Posts: 4,739
Loc: Oregon
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I keep my heater set at 69 when I need to. Assuming it's usually a degree hotter in whatever container is colonizing. Definwtly gets warmer than it should sometimes with the hood on..
5 day lcs... ya. I've heard about it.
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: QM33]
#27416936 - 08/06/21 02:10 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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The only time my lc finishes in 5 days is when it's on grain, never when colonizing the broth.
All of my stuff sits between 22 and 24°C.
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Feasoghorm

Registered: 10/24/18
Posts: 4,384
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Failboat]
#27416944 - 08/06/21 02:12 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Quirkmeister92 said: So how cold/warm do yall colonize at? I'm running like 70°F and it seems slow. 5 day LC my ass
Fuckin' A. It's been between 74 and 81°F in my lab and it takes longer than 5 days to fully colonize an LC. I like my lc to be a mega dense snow globe of wonder. Jst a thin clear bit up top when settled.
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LtLurker
Lost Sailor



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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Feasoghorm]
#27417164 - 08/06/21 04:56 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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you can think of yourselves as scientist for using scientific method if you want. But i know damn well i'm just a jackass with a HS diploma and don't understand half the sciency words that get thrown around on occasion.
I'm just tryin to grow mushrooms good.
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Failboat
Fuck Up
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: LtLurker] 1
#27417267 - 08/06/21 05:54 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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#growmoarmush
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