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roarkell
The Roar Master!



Registered: 08/29/19
Posts: 2,223
Loc: Southern WI
Last seen: 6 months, 22 days
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Quote:
gone-pear-shaped said: I didn't ever think of coir to reduce clumping. That does sound useful if I do millet again.
Speaking of dogma: cubes have enzymes to eat wood: both cellulose and lignin. It's not their favorite food, but they manage. I'd be very surprised if they don't eat coir. (Yes, almost everyone says that, but it's one of those things I've never read evidence for.) (discussion link about wood)
All we know is that coir doesn't contain significant fats/carbs. But it is organic and flammable, right? So it's certainly nutritive to an organism that can handle it.
IMO since mycelia colonize it and we know it is organic, our base assumption should be that it is nutritive until someone gives us strong evidence otherwise.
The evidence otherwise is the fact that it won't contam on its own...
Although that doesn't disprove coir isn't a source of nutrition... it just proves that it isn't food for the nasties were trying to avoid...
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icpurple
Stranger

Registered: 01/14/21
Posts: 112
Last seen: 10 months, 1 day
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: roarkell]
#27384131 - 07/12/21 09:07 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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I have a cubic yard of compost in my yard rn and it is composed, for the most part, of thirds of hpoo, hardwood shavings, coir. Plus I have 3 yards of similar material that I made garden boxes and pots out of. I get all this material for free so I like experimenting. The last time I dug into the compost pile there was a 4" thick horizontal band of mycelium that I smelled at first then investigated. Yes, I discarded some spent subs into the pile. I've had some bad luck with pasteurization so If all it takes for a significant increase in success is PC'ing 4:1 sub:grain and then fruiting it once colonized then that is something I'm willing to do. For some reason Trich is real bad here, I mean the fucking onions you get at the grocer have 2 grams of green trich spores when you peel them.
Quote:
gone-pear-shaped said: I didn't ever think of coir to reduce clumping. That does sound useful if I do millet again.
Speaking of dogma: cubes have enzymes to eat wood: both cellulose and lignin. It's not their favorite food, but they manage. I'd be very surprised if they don't eat coir. (Yes, almost everyone says that, but it's one of those things I've never read evidence for.) (discussion link about wood)
All we know is that coir doesn't contain significant fats/carbs. But it is organic and flammable, right? So it's certainly nutritive to an organism that can handle it.
IMO since mycelia colonize it and we know it is organic, our base assumption should be that it is nutritive until someone gives us strong evidence otherwise.
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gone-pear-shaped
Stranger than fiction

Registered: 10/30/17
Posts: 822
Last seen: 5 months, 17 days
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: icpurple]
#27384151 - 07/12/21 09:19 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
icpurple said: If all it takes for a significant increase in success is PC'ing 4:1 sub:grain and then fruiting it once colonized then that is something I'm willing to do. For some reason Trich is real bad here, I mean the fucking onions you get at the grocer have 2 grams of green trich spores when you peel them.
I guess that would work, but I think you're jumping the gun for 1.5 reasons. First, sterilizing and inoculating big bags is harder than sterilizing and inoculating quart jars. Yes, you won't have to do a non-sterile bulk, but everything else is harder. The half reason is, have you already tried doing everything by the book? (Including asking for feedback?) Without cutting corners or trying to do it a smarter way? (No shame in that, as I've seldom tried to do cult without improving it with my own ideas and adjustments. But it's different when you can't figure out what's going wrong.)
Edited by gone-pear-shaped (07/12/21 09:20 AM)
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LtLurker
Lost Sailor



Registered: 01/03/18
Posts: 7,535
Loc: Borderlands
Last seen: 6 days, 5 hours
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: icpurple]
#27384157 - 07/12/21 09:22 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Holy shit. I wasn't trying to start a 2 page argument. Im just trying to say Its hard to believe your being 100% honest and you should share your shit before addimently arguing for teks that go against the norm. Its hard for people to believe a poster when they dont have a history. People claim success about things that actually kinda failed all the time.
You shouldn't be afraid to post pics dude. Most of us live where its illegal. Thats why the sites setup to strip exif data.
No prep can work, but I think you need it really dialed in with trial and error. the chart from stammets just isn't gonna do it.
There's not much I can tell from that last pic. Grain jar looks wet and dark, so I guess bacterial. And the tub is just a colonizing tub 
Don't take it as an attack. I wanna see you grow and try things, like everyone else here.
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sandman420
Saint PP



Registered: 06/17/04
Posts: 5,384
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: LtLurker]
#27384176 - 07/12/21 09:32 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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I can tell you for sure that no-prep millet bags works (2.25lb water and 3.75lb millet) and if you do the same with wheat it will be way too dry on top and not work for shit. Wheat holds way more water than millet. Can't get a good no-prep wheat in bags because the part not in the water always comes out hella dry but I had a little success with small containers. Is that what you are talking about? Hard to follow the drama, juicy summer Monday.
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LtLurker
Lost Sailor



Registered: 01/03/18
Posts: 7,535
Loc: Borderlands
Last seen: 6 days, 5 hours
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: sandman420] 1
#27384185 - 07/12/21 09:42 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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That's the bit i was doubting sandman. I only skimmed the rest of the argument. I think it's kinda boiled into other shit, and i didn't exactly wanna pile on the guy.
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Abyssinian
Meow Meow


Registered: 05/20/21
Posts: 135
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: LtLurker] 2
#27384202 - 07/12/21 09:53 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Just did my first agar to grain transfers on my 4 test jars. Wasn't super pleased with my sterile technique, I had my hand go over critical sites a few times. It was a good learning experience, I'll have to plan my movements a little bit better next time and probably go with a different layout for where I have things positioned. Anyway, I guess its time to play the waiting game and see if they colonize or contam.
-------------------- I felt.
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icpurple
Stranger

Registered: 01/14/21
Posts: 112
Last seen: 10 months, 1 day
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My pasteurization technique may have been whack in the past but I guarantee these current shoe boxes were done by the book. They're in my cordoned off clean room and fully colinized. I'm almost afraid to lift the lids for FAE because of the trich even though I know it shouldn't be a problem, I spray so much goddam diluted bleach in there I can barely live in there... and I know shit grows invitro so even if I get a couple, I'm happy. hahahaha.. My last tubs weren't in the clean room and were cracked open (lids inverted and cocked) from day 1 and while I got some fruits, they all contamed with trich... These ones have been (shittily) sealed from day 1 and are ready so I may just lift the seal on one end of the box today and see what happens.
I meant to say that I am doing this in jars. Not currently willing to spend money on bags and that's all I'll say about bags at this time.
Quote:
gone-pear-shaped said:
Quote:
I guess that would work, but I think you're jumping the gun for 1.5 reasons. First, sterilizing and inoculating big bags is harder than sterilizing and inoculating quart jars.
Quote:
Yes, you won't have to do a non-sterile bulk, but everything else is harder. The half reason is, have you already tried doing everything by the book? (Including asking for feedback?) Without cutting corners or trying to do it a smarter way? (No shame in that, as I've seldom tried to do cult without improving it with my own ideas and adjustments. But it's different when you can't figure out what's going wrong.)
Edited by icpurple (07/12/21 10:17 AM)
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icpurple
Stranger

Registered: 01/14/21
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Last seen: 10 months, 1 day
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Abyssinian]
#27384255 - 07/12/21 10:28 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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It's difficult sometimes... flame sterilize scalpel... accidentally touch something, not even sure if it was the scalpel... flame sterilize again, accidentally touch the jar lid... flame sterilize again...... and on and on.
Welcome to the hobby!
Quote:
Abyssinian said: Just did my first agar to grain transfers on my 4 test jars. Wasn't super pleased with my sterile technique, I had my hand go over critical sites a few times. It was a good learning experience, I'll have to plan my movements a little bit better next time and probably go with a different layout for where I have things positioned. Anyway, I guess its time to play the waiting game and see if they colonize or contam.
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icpurple
Stranger

Registered: 01/14/21
Posts: 112
Last seen: 10 months, 1 day
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If I can do jars with 100% compost (coir/wood/hpoo) then that would be ideal. even better than grain jars because I have to pay for grain. I've started incorporating clipping from mowing the lawn into the compost pile. Gawd Dammmmm, a couple bags of grass clippings in the city compost bin with a few gallons of water, after a few hot days... Whoooodammmmm, way worse than any hpoo I ever smelled.
Quote:
gone-pear-shaped said: I didn't ever think of coir to reduce clumping. That does sound useful if I do millet again.
Speaking of dogma: cubes have enzymes to eat wood: both cellulose and lignin. It's not their favorite food, but they manage. I'd be very surprised if they don't eat coir. (Yes, almost everyone says that, but it's one of those things I've never read evidence for.) (discussion link about wood)
All we know is that coir doesn't contain significant fats/carbs. But it is organic and flammable, right? So it's certainly nutritive to an organism that can handle it.
IMO since mycelia colonize it and we know it is organic, our base assumption should be that it is nutritive until someone gives us strong evidence otherwise.
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SpaceBaby
alchemist



Registered: 11/01/20
Posts: 2,030
Loc: SPACE
Last seen: 4 months, 17 days
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: icpurple]
#27384308 - 07/12/21 11:05 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said:
Quote:
SpaceBaby said:
Quote:
mushboy said: hit up bods journal or my i hate mushboy party thread if you wanna post bizarre thoughts at odd hours of the day
i live for bach - fox mulder
I found this ocd dude in englad who cleans up old recordings but leaves the life in them
i have pablo casals playing the solo cello concerti in 1936 and robert johnson [yeah THAT one] playing the blues in 1910
fuckin amazing
He was also a time traveler then since Robert Johnson was born around 1911. That's one powerful cleaning. 
dood, i know.. rj played in 1930. i'll send you a linknto one of my albums...when i find it. mind's been 100% cult-floided.
-------------------- SpaceBaby SPACEBABY'S LAGM22 THREAD MUSHBOY'S SHROOM TEA TEK Me as a cube
Another Day's Work:
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gone-pear-shaped
Stranger than fiction

Registered: 10/30/17
Posts: 822
Last seen: 5 months, 17 days
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: icpurple]
#27384324 - 07/12/21 11:16 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
icpurple said: If I can do jars with 100% compost (coir/wood/hpoo) then that would be ideal. even better than grain jars because I have to pay for grain.
I'd been assuming you'd use bags because the volume you have to sterilize is 2-4x greater if you don't use bulk. But if you're willing to use jars, the next issue I can think of is surface area. I don't know if top fruiting a jar is inherently less efficient, but it's certainly harder to harvest. Maybe you could grow in polypropylene tupperware instead.
I can't think of a labor-efficient way to do an all-in-one substrate without bags or a pretty large steamer/sterilizer. But I'm inexperienced.
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LadysKnight
Hello Ladies


Registered: 10/09/15
Posts: 1,672
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See: Muda bottles
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icpurple
Stranger

Registered: 01/14/21
Posts: 112
Last seen: 10 months, 1 day
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Quote:
You shouldn't be afraid to post pics dude. Most of us live where its illegal. Thats why the sites setup to strip exif data.
That literally made me feel warm and fuzzy.Quote:
gone-pear-shaped said: Yeah, yeah, it's all a ruse, who gives a fuck and etcetera... Everybody dies.
Quote:
icpurple said: If I can do jars with 100% compost (coir/wood/hpoo) then that would be ideal. even better than grain jars because I have to pay for grain.
I'd been assuming you'd use bags because the volume you have to sterilize is 2-4x greater if you don't use bulk. But if you're willing to use jars, the next issue I can think of is surface area. I don't know if top fruiting a jar is inherently less efficient, but it's certainly harder to harvest. Maybe you could grow in polypropylene tupperware instead.
I can't think of a labor-efficient way to do an all-in-one substrate without bags or a pretty large steamer/sterilizer. But I'm inexperienced.
I'm fine with crumbling jar contents into tubs... I'm also not averse to PCing jars of sub, thinking of it right at this moment, I don't know why I didn't think of it before.
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gone-pear-shaped
Stranger than fiction

Registered: 10/30/17
Posts: 822
Last seen: 5 months, 17 days
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: icpurple]
#27384358 - 07/12/21 11:42 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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You mangled your quote tags, I didn't say some of that stuff.
But sterilizing substrate is iffy. I researched this and there's not a consensus about why that is (but the most common argument is that sterilization kills competitors to mold). Go ahead and try it!
Didn't some prominent forum member write about how and why he sterilizes his substrate? I seem to recall someone mentioning it.
Edited by gone-pear-shaped (07/12/21 12:07 PM)
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icpurple
Stranger

Registered: 01/14/21
Posts: 112
Last seen: 10 months, 1 day
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ahah, found the post I was looking for... even using jars I wouldn't fruit in them. You still (imo) have to remove the 'spawn' from the jars and put them into a tub and fruit them... IMO I don't know, I've never tried oerick and oss in vitro fruiting
I personally believe making the media (stuff going into the jars) should be slightly more wet than you would think.
Like minimally, like squeeze a handfull and you hear the water just like it wants to run between your fingers and you squeeze a handfull and you see the water run between your fingers, but not drip... the next level is you actually see drips coming off your fingers...
What is the difference before pressure cooking all of these situations and AFTER pressure cooking all of these situations?????????????
Quote:
gone-pear-shaped said:
Quote:
icpurple said: If I can do jars with 100% compost (coir/wood/hpoo) then that would be ideal. even better than grain jars because I have to pay for grain.
I'd been assuming you'd use bags because the volume you have to sterilize is 2-4x greater if you don't use bulk. But if you're willing to use jars, the next issue I can think of is surface area. I don't know if top fruiting a jar is inherently less efficient, but it's certainly harder to harvest. Maybe you could grow in polypropylene tupperware instead.
I can't think of a labor-efficient way to do an all-in-one substrate without bags or a pretty large steamer/sterilizer. But I'm inexperienced.
Not sure if any of that makes sense, I'm delirious and haven't slept in days
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icpurple
Stranger

Registered: 01/14/21
Posts: 112
Last seen: 10 months, 1 day
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Not even sure how that happened, I know I said it, wasn't even aware of anyone else saying it.
Quote:
gone-pear-shaped said: You mangled your quote tags, I didn't say "etcetera... Everybody dies."
But sterilizing substrate is iffy. I researched this and there's not a consensus about why that is (but the most common argument is that sterilization kills competitors to mold). Go ahead and try it!
Didn't some prominent forum member write about how and why he sterilizes his substrate? I seem to recall someone mentioning it.
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LtLurker
Lost Sailor



Registered: 01/03/18
Posts: 7,535
Loc: Borderlands
Last seen: 6 days, 5 hours
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Quote:
gone-pear-shaped said: You mangled your quote tags, I didn't say "etcetera... Everybody dies."
But sterilizing substrate is iffy. I researched this and there's not a consensus about why that is (but the most common argument is that sterilization kills competitors to mold). Go ahead and try it!
Didn't some prominent forum member write about how and why he sterilizes his substrate? I seem to recall someone mentioning it.
I remember this is a bit. There was someone who was sterilizing his coir sometimes and it worked fine apparently. Coir's kind of a unique bulk though, the rest gotta be pasteurized like you said. unless you run mudda bottles that'll let you sterilize any bulk instead of pasteurize because it'll get colonized before it's exposed to the open air.
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icpurple
Stranger

Registered: 01/14/21
Posts: 112
Last seen: 10 months, 1 day
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: LtLurker]
#27384394 - 07/12/21 12:06 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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IDK WTF MUDDA bottles are.
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Crackatoa
Stranger in a strange land



Registered: 03/31/19
Posts: 5,399
Loc: Over by your Mama's house
Last seen: 3 hours, 35 minutes
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: icpurple] 1
#27384397 - 07/12/21 12:09 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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