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Feasoghorm

Registered: 10/24/18
Posts: 4,384
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: WyoMX]
#27383709 - 07/11/21 09:42 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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I have found leveling to make a positive difference. If i tamp with my hand it leaves little finger ridges in the surface that seems to fuck with the pinset.
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PrimalSoup
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: icpurple] 1
#27383715 - 07/11/21 09:53 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
icpurple said: This is the reason I like the 'no cook, no prep' method of doing grain jars. I.E. pour dry grain into jar, add water, PC. This method ensures that there is a high degree of contact with contents of the jar (water) rather than relying on only the sides/ends of some grains and air (insulator) to conduct heat to the inner contents of the jar. The high surface area of contact of the water inside the jar will cause more steam to evolve in the jar pushing more air out of the jar and because steam IS a conductor of heat, will consistently produce a clean product/grain spawn.
I used that method a long time ago for both rye and wheat but it got into trouble depending on the grain cleanliness, and it limits how much water you can get into the grain. Then I started soaking overnight (12 hrs usually) and rinsing, then supplement and PC, and that worked well enough plus it got better hydration, and the bacterial endospores are supposedly germinating before cooking. Works great so long as the soak doesn't go too long. But still seeing failures sometimes, plus you have to get right on the jars after cooldown to shake them up and jars went "ping!" too often due to the thermal shock. Now I'm boiling (wheat) for 40 mins, drain, dry on screen, and that's the ticket for getting 100% hydration levels with no clumping, no measuring, and no needing to crack the hot PC right off. You know what goes in the jar is what will come out the same as well, no mushy crap in the bottom.

As to whether that method of dry grain + water => PC actually does what you're saying: sterilizes better due to water in the jar? No I don't think so. Given proper venting and rise to boiling throughout the PC before starting the cycle, which takes 10-15 minutes, there's only steam in the jars as well as the rest of the PC. It comes from the grain and it doesn't take much water to make the steam to drive out the air.
But for me the results are so much better with boiling and drying that I've changed to that completely and am putting out a new tek for that - not that it's novel - just that it works better.
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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icpurple
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: PrimalSoup]
#27383760 - 07/11/21 11:21 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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TBH, I've never done it any other way. I didn't say it was better, just that I like it because I get consistently good results and presented a theory as to why I think that is the case.
Quote:
As to whether that method of dry grain + water => PC actually does what you're saying: sterilizes better due to water in the jar? No I don't think so.
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PrimalSoup
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: icpurple]
#27383765 - 07/11/21 11:34 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Ok a theory. Might want to compare some other methods though.
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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gone-pear-shaped
Stranger than fiction

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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: PrimalSoup]
#27383769 - 07/11/21 11:39 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said: But for me the results are so much better with boiling and drying that I've changed to that completely and am putting out a new tek for that - not that it's novel - just that it works better. 
I suggest you publish it as a new tek and link to it from the old one. If people linked to your previous tek version and you change it, that will kind of break the record of those old conversations. If someone wrote, "I prep grains like <link>this</link> and I got too many exploded grains", that conversation will become nonsense if you rewrite the contents of the tek. (Unless you are just adding tips, of course.)
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LtLurker
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: icpurple]
#27383771 - 07/11/21 11:42 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Id like to see your jars.
The calculator doesn't seem accurate at a glance. Far as I can tell, It doesn't even specify which grain, and they all hold different amounts of water.
Its not the first I've heard of hydrating and sterilizing at the same time, but afaik nearly everyone moves away from it because nailing grain prep correctly is pretty important. Too wet or dry will affect the grow.
You mention stamets wrote this in one of his books. Sadly, the guys infamous for bad ideas like colonizing in dark, co2 nonsense, and more. Its not exactly something that gives it credibility.
You should give typical soak/boil, dry, sterilize grain prep a try and see how it goes.
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icpurple
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: LtLurker]
#27383776 - 07/11/21 11:53 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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I could show you some jars that I nocked up 2-3 months ago but I was experimenting with zero FAE, I.E. no vent in the lids and while there is some growth, it is very miniscule. However it is growth and not contam.
Quote:
Id like to see your jars.
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LtLurker
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: icpurple]
#27383780 - 07/12/21 12:00 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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You can run unmodded 1 peice lids by backing them a bit and it seems to work for people fine.
You got no track record to just believe all that is true. I really doubt 3 month old jars with minimal growth are fine. You never shared a single pic of anything you've done actually the more I look. Its just posts claiming subpar techniques like colonized grain jar li are awesome with no show of any successes.
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icpurple
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: LtLurker]
#27383795 - 07/12/21 12:23 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well sure, but then that wouldn't be a zero FAE experiment anymore, would it.
Working on some pics..
Oh and if you're really digging into my previous posts. I posted some pics of no pour tupperware petris that I still have sitting on my floor, they all have pins/fruits and no contam as of this date and they've all been dug into at least twice... hehe Want pics of those too?
I thought it would be fun to do A2G with them but I've already done 2 rounds of A2LC from those dishes so I don't know, they are still technically Multispore from the syringes and I've well moved on from there... it is fun to see all those tiny little mushrooms though.
Edited by icpurple (07/12/21 01:39 AM)
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icpurple
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: icpurple]
#27383807 - 07/12/21 12:50 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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This is all I got goin on right now, three 9.5 qt shoe boxed and some stalled 'zero FAE' experimental jars. Well, of course there's the 17 jars in the PC's right now and the previous 17 nocked up yesterday.
Oh, the tubs were nocked up with jars that were 3 months old... I guess I missed a spot mixing the one... 
I will add that I purchased three strains; PM, BMR and GT and for the life of me I can't get the GT to do what I want. The Purple Mystic and Blue Magnolia rust have been great. All the GT wants to do is take forever and pin and fruit invitro and incidentally that is what is in those 'zero FAE' jars. I did make a nice looking LC from one of the GT invitro fruits and that is what I nocked up some jars with yesterday, so we'll see what happens with that.
In case you're wondering what all the crud is in the jar, I've been experimenting with adding various amounts of stuff like coir, compost, sawdust and gypsum to aid in or eliminate the need for 'hot shaking' the jars. If my 'bulk jars' work out, I'll just do that forever. cause I'm lazy as fuck.
Also, I live in a country where cultivation of fruits is illegal so I will never post pictures of fruiting bodies even IF i were actually able to get to that stage of the process, which seems unlikely. 
Edited by icpurple (07/12/21 02:04 AM)
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PrimalSoup
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Quote:
gone-pear-shaped said:
Quote:
PrimalSoup said: But for me the results are so much better with boiling and drying that I've changed to that completely and am putting out a new tek for that - not that it's novel - just that it works better. 
I suggest you publish it as a new tek and link to it from the old one. If people linked to your previous tek version and you change it, that will kind of break the record of those old conversations. If someone wrote, "I prep grains like <link>this</link> and I got too many exploded grains", that conversation will become nonsense if you rewrite the contents of the tek. (Unless you are just adding tips, of course.)
Yeah that's what I'm doing, the new one links to the old one and the old one says there's a better way and links to the new one.
It's just supposed to be best practice, and after experimenting recently running all 3 versions (grain + water + 3hr soak => PC, grain soak overnight + rinse + partial water => PC, and grain boiled + dry overnight => PC) the winner is obvious.
True confession: I resisted going to the bother of boiling, straining, and drying for a long time - until I tried it.
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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icpurple
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: PrimalSoup]
#27383835 - 07/12/21 02:32 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm of the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" ilk so until I can find something to break my method I ain't changing it. I actually am looking for better methods but they ain't YOUR methods.
Quote:
True confession: I resisted going to the bother of boiling, straining, and drying for a long time - until I tried it.
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roarkell
The Roar Master!



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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: icpurple] 3
#27383904 - 07/12/21 05:22 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
icpurple said: I'm of the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" ilk so until I can find something to break my method I ain't changing it. I actually am looking for better methods but they ain't YOUR methods.
Quote:
True confession: I resisted going to the bother of boiling, straining, and drying for a long time - until I tried it.
Man, if youre looking for better methods, maybe a little humility and observation will help... holy shit.
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icpurple
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: roarkell]
#27383919 - 07/12/21 05:49 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Wow,
Well, I gave two sentences why I believe the theory works and have never had any contam issues. If you can give two equally informative sentences why your methods are superior and have equally few contam issues then I'm willing to be humbled and try. But when advocates come out of the gate with contam numbers greater than what I'm doing then I'm absolutely not willing to listen.
I wasn't ASKING for new methods, I'm doing my own research. Shit you've never even heard of until today so...
Edited by icpurple (07/12/21 05:57 AM)
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roarkell
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: icpurple]
#27383924 - 07/12/21 06:01 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
icpurple said: Wow,
Well, I gave two sentences why I believe the theory works and have never had any contam issues. If you can give two equally informative sentences why your methods are superior and have equally few contam issues then I'm willing to be humbled and try. But when advocates come out of the gate with contam numbers greater than what I'm doing then I'm absolutely not willing to listen.
I wasn't ASKING for new methods, I'm doing my own research. Shit you've never even heard of until today so...
You have to understand how this site works... you have less than 100 posts, have only been a member for 6 months and have zero reviews... idc if your Paul Stammets, nobody is gonna listen to you or take you seriously...
I'm even less inclined to take you seriously when your "experiment" is to try growing an aerobic lifeform without air...
Keep doing you buddy, I'm sure you'll figure out what it is we've all been missing...
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icpurple
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: roarkell]
#27383929 - 07/12/21 06:09 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Wow, passive aggressive much? I've been on forums since before you were in diapers so I know how they work.
Perhaps those zero FAE jars are only still here because they were the last to finish in a series of "how big of a hole do I need in my lids" experiment and the others in the experiment have served their time and long been processed while these ones haven't finished yet
Quote:
roarkell said:
You have to understand how this site works... you have less than 100 posts, have only been a member for 6 months and have zero reviews... idc if your Paul Stammets, nobody is gonna listen to you or take you seriously...
I'm even less inclined to take you seriously when your "experiment" is to try growing an aerobic lifeform without air...
Keep doing you buddy, I'm sure you'll figure out what it is we've all been missing...
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roarkell
The Roar Master!



Registered: 08/29/19
Posts: 2,223
Loc: Southern WI
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: icpurple] 1
#27383947 - 07/12/21 06:28 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
icpurple said: Wow, passive aggressive much? I've been on forums since before you were in diapers so I know how they work.
Perhaps those zero FAE jars are only still here because they were the last to finish in a series of "how big of a hole do I need in my lids" experiment and the others in the experiment have served their time and long been processed while these ones haven't finished yet
Quote:
roarkell said:
You have to understand how this site works... you have less than 100 posts, have only been a member for 6 months and have zero reviews... idc if your Paul Stammets, nobody is gonna listen to you or take you seriously...
I'm even less inclined to take you seriously when your "experiment" is to try growing an aerobic lifeform without air...
Keep doing you buddy, I'm sure you'll figure out what it is we've all been missing...
I dont think I'm being passive aggressive at all... I just don't understand why new people here always try to reinvent the wheel and when helpful members and TCs (2 of them now) try to help, you tell them to fuck off cuz you dont like THEIR methods...
theres a million posts on what size hole your lids need... im all for experimenting for what works best in your environment and im all for experimenting for the hell of it... don't waltz in, puffing your chest up about how great your methods are without any pictures to back any of your claims up... and the whole "fruits are illegal in my country" argument is hilarious... theyre illegal pretty much everywhere and even where they are legal, home cultivation still isn't legal either...
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icpurple
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: roarkell]
#27383956 - 07/12/21 06:38 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Lol.
Quote:
you tell them to fuck off cuz you dont like THEIR methods...
I think you've got that backwards... <I.E. I know how this site works>
I never told anyone to fuck off. I offered a method of grain prep to a person/s that are performing various methods of "scientific testing" of grain preps, of which the method I use is not included and suggested it, because it works for me and am quite pleased with it. Offered my reasoning why I thought it was worth while testing in their procedures. That's it, That's all. In no way shape or form was I asking for input or help in my procedures... I'm good and in fact, I will do me. Whatever happened after that is on those responders.
Edited by icpurple (07/12/21 07:02 AM)
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A.k.a
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: icpurple]
#27383967 - 07/12/21 06:52 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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I had really good results with no prep wbs, but it took a ton of dialing in and making sure to do everything the exact same way each time.
The first few batches worked but weren’t great, then eventually when I got it zeroed in it was awesome.
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LAGM2020     
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roarkell
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: icpurple]
#27383985 - 07/12/21 07:12 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
icpurple said: Lol.
Quote:
you tell them to fuck off cuz you dont like THEIR methods...
I think you've got that backwards... <I.E. I know how this site works>
I never told anyone to fuck off. I offered a method of grain prep to a person/s that are performing various methods of "scientific testing" of grain preps, of which the method I use is not included and suggested it, because it works for me and am quite pleased with it. Offered my reasoning why I thought it was worth while testing in their procedures. That's it, That's all. In no way shape or form was I asking for input or help in my procedures... I'm good and in fact, I will do me. Whatever happened after that is on those responders.
So you told a member of 9+ years with over 3k posts how to do his experiments, of which *your* no prep wasn't included?
I'll retract my statement about you telling primal to fuck off, because you weren't that blatant with it, but the way you toss his advice to the side is why most people aren't gonna be willing to help or listen.
My original comment stands, if you're here to learn and hopefully (eventually) help, take a step back and realize you dont know everything and that your way may not be the best... im wildly aware of my ignorance, and will happily eat my words when the need arises.
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