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Eugene Gesuale
Jar-Sniffer



Registered: 04/12/20
Posts: 1,920
Loc: The Basement
Last seen: 9 months, 14 days
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Josex]
#27337942 - 06/06/21 06:57 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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I have heard my AA pull air in after cooling down on several occasions. I don’t wait for it to cool anymore and open it at 0psi
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Josex
#cheat_code


Registered: 11/13/15
Posts: 8,995
Loc:
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Weird man, this is news to me a PC can hold a vacuum. Mine might be defective, because it sure doesn't hold it. Are you sure you're letting it cool completely before removing the rocker?
I like to let the PC cool down completely only after sterilizing grain, otherwise the grain keeps spitting out moisture until it cools down. This is not a biggie because after some shakes over the course of 24-48 hours the grains seem to reabsorb that moisture. Maybe a good option for people that need to run several cycles in the same day.
You get none of that if you let the grain cool down completely tho. Just one shake after taking them out of the PC and they're good to go.
Edited by Josex (06/06/21 07:55 PM)
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Feasoghorm

Registered: 10/24/18
Posts: 4,384
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In theory, there wud only be a possibility of a vacuum forming inside the canner if the canner and it's contents were colder than the atmosphere outside it, and the canner was sealed b4 any temp change.
The weight wud have to form a seal at some point, which is a possibility i suppose. And the canner's temp wud have to drop significantly lower that the temp of the atmosphere surrounding it.
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Josex
#cheat_code


Registered: 11/13/15
Posts: 8,995
Loc:
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Feasoghorm]
#27337985 - 06/06/21 07:43 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Nah I was just being diplomatic in my previous posts, a PC doesn't hold a vacuum for shit  Nor is the weight ever going to make a seal.
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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Josex]
#27338027 - 06/06/21 08:25 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Josex said: How's that thing about PC's holding a vacuum? I don't think my AA holds a vacuum and I doubt any pressure cooker/canner can.
My thinking is that if a vacuum was formed, I'm pretty sure I would be hearing a hissing sound when I take the weight off the next day when the PC has cooled down. The hissing sound that produces any vessel that is holding a vacuum the instant you release it, it sucks in air from the outside and it can be heard easily.
I hear nothing at all when I take the weight off and I don't think the weight of a rocker would be enough to hold a vacuum anyway.
It pulls a vacuum but doesnt hold one. Only a sterilizer will hold a vacuum. With a canner the vacuum will equalize over time.
Next time you run your canner, try removing the lid 2 minutes after it hits 0psi without removing the weight first. 20 bucks says you cant.
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Feasoghorm

Registered: 10/24/18
Posts: 4,384
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: natedawgnow]
#27338029 - 06/06/21 08:30 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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So your theory is that the pressure drops past 0psi and goes negative? Ok Why wud the pressure go negative?
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sandman420
Saint PP



Registered: 06/17/04
Posts: 5,384
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: natedawgnow]
#27338031 - 06/06/21 08:32 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Like the honorable nate said All American sterilizers all pull (and hold) a vacuum unless there is a leak. That is why they say not for canning. Canning happens when the jars are boiling and they are exposed to atmosphere to cool but being in a vacuum prevents the vacuum from happening in the jar.
Edited by sandman420 (06/06/21 08:34 PM)
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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Feasoghorm] 1
#27338032 - 06/06/21 08:33 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Dude it's not my theory it's what happens.
Same reason a jar of jam seals and the lid wont come off til you pop it off.
When a sealed vessel is boiled and then cooled, a vacuum is pulled read a fuckin book
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Josex]
#27338034 - 06/06/21 08:35 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Josex said: How's that thing about PC's holding a vacuum? I don't think my AA holds a vacuum and I doubt any pressure cooker/canner can.
My thinking is that if a vacuum was formed, I'm pretty sure I would be hearing a hissing sound when I take the weight off the next day when the PC has cooled down. The hissing sound that produces any vessel that is holding a vacuum the instant you release it, it sucks in air from the outside and it can be heard easily.
I hear nothing at all when I take the weight off and I don't think the weight of a rocker would be enough to hold a vacuum anyway.
Hell my AA15 does and it'll hold it until I release it. It came with the petcock installed not a weight so it might just seal better?
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: sandman420]
#27338036 - 06/06/21 08:36 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
sandman420 said: Like the honorable nate said All American sterilizers all pull (and hold) a vacuum unless there is a leak. That is why they say not for canning. Canning happens when the jars are boiling and they are exposed to atmosphere to cool but being in a vacuum prevents the vacuum from happening in the jar.
Yes but a canner will pull a vacuum but not hold it.
This is why bags come out of my prestos in my tek with sealed gussets and mouth.
Canners will pull a vacuum gor a short time, a sterilizer will hold it til you physically release it
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sandman420
Saint PP



Registered: 06/17/04
Posts: 5,384
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: natedawgnow]
#27338039 - 06/06/21 08:38 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yea thats literally canning bro
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TedsDead



Registered: 01/03/17
Posts: 4,998
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: natedawgnow]
#27338040 - 06/06/21 08:40 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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we never even got any info on how dude was pcing the bags. maybe they werent sterilized properly and contaminated from that.
could always try pre-sealing them
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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: sandman420]
#27338044 - 06/06/21 08:41 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yes I know.
Im trying to explain to the other people who seem confused by the concept.
I can shit all the time, my chick and I canned a shit ton of squash, sauerkraut, marmalades and other shit this past fall. Still have a green tomatoe marmalade that I cant wait to bust into
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sandman420
Saint PP



Registered: 06/17/04
Posts: 5,384
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: natedawgnow]
#27338046 - 06/06/21 08:44 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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I was responding to the "thats not my theory" part lol his perplexity at how in the world could a vacuum form in there was kinda amusing. My internets going real slow right now I'm bored.
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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: sandman420]
#27338050 - 06/06/21 08:46 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Oh word 
Ya i feel you on the slow internet. We're on satellite and my max speed 12mbps 
And it's throttled after 60gigs of data is used. And it's 160 a month 
No other options though til starlink is a widely available thing
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Feasoghorm

Registered: 10/24/18
Posts: 4,384
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: natedawgnow]
#27338063 - 06/06/21 08:55 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
natedawgnow said: Dude it's not my theory it's what happens. Same reason a jar of jam seals and the lid wont come off til you pop it off. When a sealed vessel is boiled and then cooled, a vacuum is pulled read a fuckin book 
Easy nate...i aint got beef with you. Im jst learning stuff. I intend no sarcastic tone.
A vacuum forms in jarred shit in a canner 'cause air is forced out of the jar though the lid seal during the cycle. The lid seal becomes invalid when pressure inside the jar is too great. As the jar cools slightly, the lid instantly seals again. As it cools further (again, relative) the pressure drops negative.
So like i was saying b4, your weight wud have to form a seal, which i reserved possibly for.
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sandman420
Saint PP



Registered: 06/17/04
Posts: 5,384
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: natedawgnow]
#27338067 - 06/06/21 08:57 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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i pay a hondo for 20mbps plz kill me
Just so we dont seem like a couple of fart sniffers here's the science of why a vacuum is formed in simple terms:
Heat causes gasses and shit to expand in volume and cooling causes them to contract, when it cools the gasses return to its normal state but it can't pull any air in. So as the gasses or whatnot contracts a vacuum is created.
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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Feasoghorm]
#27338074 - 06/06/21 09:04 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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My comment was meant to be funny sorry if it offended in any way.
Your weight does form a seal. But not a strong one which is why the vacuum is temporary.
As your canner cools, air is being forced out and as an aa will show you, a metal on metal seal is perfectly sufficient. A presto weight will absolutely form a slight seal which allows for a vacuum which pulls the weight and tab down even more.
This isnt conjecture or a possibly thing. An AA canner pulls a better vacuum than a presto canner because the AA doesnt have a tab which falls when the pressure hits 0. But it's still temporary as the weight is not a perfect seal.
I mean the weight making a slight seal is exactly why the weight works to hold the psi at 15 in the first place. The weight of the jiggler and the holes shape make a seal over the vent pipe holding the pressure in until it gets to great, breaks the seal, and lets steam out.
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Feasoghorm

Registered: 10/24/18
Posts: 4,384
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: natedawgnow]
#27338086 - 06/06/21 09:12 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Interesting
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Josex
#cheat_code


Registered: 11/13/15
Posts: 8,995
Loc:
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: natedawgnow]
#27338175 - 06/06/21 10:15 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
natedawgnow said:
Quote:
Josex said: How's that thing about PC's holding a vacuum? I don't think my AA holds a vacuum and I doubt any pressure cooker/canner can.
My thinking is that if a vacuum was formed, I'm pretty sure I would be hearing a hissing sound when I take the weight off the next day when the PC has cooled down. The hissing sound that produces any vessel that is holding a vacuum the instant you release it, it sucks in air from the outside and it can be heard easily.
I hear nothing at all when I take the weight off and I don't think the weight of a rocker would be enough to hold a vacuum anyway.
It pulls a vacuum but doesnt hold one. Only a sterilizer will hold a vacuum. With a canner the vacuum will equalize over time.
Next time you run your canner, try removing the lid 2 minutes after it hits 0psi without removing the weight first. 20 bucks says you cant.
Oh I read you saying "holds a vacuum" instead of pulls. Read too fast, my bad.
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