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InvisibleLenz
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Phony Phone]
    #27184896 - 02/03/21 05:23 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Never had issues with cloning plate pins before but the growth from the most recent batch of clones is looking a bit suspect. This is T2, I'd normally stop at one transfer for clones but the T1 plates were looking weird like this so I wanted to see if it'd change if I put them on slightly higher agar/LME.

Could anyone confirm if these are worth putting to grain or if they're very obviously contaminated? I never feel good about this hairy kind of wispy growth but I also feel like I err too much on the side of caution and waste perfectly fine plates.
(Satellite colonies on the left middle plate are just from the transfer rolling around btw)



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:chems:


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Offlinestarbones
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Lenz]
    #27184938 - 02/03/21 05:41 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Some of those plates are fucked, with what I couldn't tell you.
Some of them are looking good but I don't mess with a slow plate if I know what it should be growing like. Plates that slowed after transfer always performed poorly for me when it came to colonize grains/fruit. This could be owed to the belief that clone cultures having multiple strains within are benefitted by having those multiple strains and not by being a true monoculture.

IE: If I take a transfer from my T1 plate to a T2 and the T2 is moving much slower than the T1 did I know something went wrong somehow, someway. Either something hitched a ride or something is missing.


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Invisibleshadyshroomie
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: starbones]
    #27184941 - 02/03/21 05:45 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

I’ve been thinking about if it was possible to make a gel like substrate/something you could grow in an industrial setting almost
Like if I biochemist/molecular engineer created the perfect mushroom substrate that is uniform/replicated easily, almost like a control substrate that gives you the same exact conditions every time
Sounds like Pasty already tried something along these lines?

Also to those who color their agar, I used around 50 drops of food coloring and the plates were tinted but by no means colored. Do I simply need to use a butt load of food color to get the agar to turn blue/green/red? Or does it also depend what type of nutrients I’m using.


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Offlinestarbones
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: shadyshroomie]
    #27184986 - 02/03/21 06:17 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Pasty did yeah but ultimately it comes down to the inescapable facts that inputs are cheap. Some coir and verm costs next to nothing and the coir is very contamination resistant to begin with. I'd only do it as a novelty. Who knows though eh? A decade and a half ago if you suggested growing cubes on coir they would have called you insane.

For edibles the inputs are too cheap to even begin to think of synthetic substrates.


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InvisibleLenz
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: starbones]
    #27184988 - 02/03/21 06:18 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

starbones said:
Some of those plates are fucked, with what I couldn't tell you.
Some of them are looking good but I don't mess with a slow plate if I know what it should be growing like. Plates that slowed after transfer always performed poorly for me when it came to colonize grains/fruit. This could be owed to the belief that clone cultures having multiple strains within are benefitted by having those multiple strains and not by being a true monoculture.

IE: If I take a transfer from my T1 plate to a T2 and the T2 is moving much slower than the T1 did I know something went wrong somehow, someway. Either something hitched a ride or something is missing.





Thanks starbones. I think I can kinda tell which ones look decent and which are complete goners but it's a huge bummer, I was looking forward to testing all of these.

None of the plates necessarily slowed down-- but from the original clone plate to T2 they were growing a little strange. I don't think I messed up any of the SAB work but I think there must've been something funky with the plate pins cause the growth was kinda funky from the very beginning.

It's weird because I usually get really nice looking rhizo plates from cloning plate pins and I don't really know how something could've hitched a ride on almost all of em like that.


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:chems:


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Offlinestarbones
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Lenz]
    #27185076 - 02/03/21 07:19 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Not sure, I've taken plenty of transfers from a fast growing culture that just went slow on me and I've been dumbfounded everytime.
On 01/04 I took some transfers from a clone plate and made five plates from five transfers. They were incredibly slow so I thought I must have a bad plate.
The original plates were still growing strong as hell though so on 01/08 I took transfers again and those took off like a raped ape.

Two sets of transfers from the same plates, everything the same, nute strength etc. No idea what I did wrong there or if I actually had done something wrong. I just ditch transfers that grow slow on me now because I know no matter how healthy they look they're gonna be ass come fruiting time.

Aggressiveness is what I look for most with my transfers and selections now. I always, always beyond fail have my best results from mycelium that moves fast. I posted this earlier today. That it was a T1 from a clone plate using a biopsy poke. That poke to this plate was done on 01/10.
I have cultures from the same night of agar work and otherstrains that have not even fully colonized the plate yet.

Mind you my experience with RW so far is that it's EZ-Mode cultivating, Pasty might be some kind of savant when it comes to breeding.


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Listen, I'm steel fisted with the iron lung
Heavy metal ballads out the guitar where lions run.




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InvisibleLenz
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: starbones]
    #27185167 - 02/03/21 08:22 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Damn, appreciate all the knowledge you're dropping.

I always read that you should select for fast aggressive myc but I never took it particularly seriously until recently. I always thought it was all relatively similar and wasn't particularly selective about where I took transfers from. I've been doing so much agar work but I'm still not consistently putting good shit to grain everytime.

It makes sense that I've never seen a plate pin anywhere near the amount of time it took you with that plate from 1/10. That's incredible I didn't even know that was possible, I normally see pins on my plates only after at least a month.

The RW print I bought threw out some real interesting fruits but didn't look like RW at all lol. Can't be too mad cause it performed decently but I'm not sure what exactly I got.


I have two really quick questions while you're around if you don't mind.

1. What do you consider a decent timeframe for a (100mm) plate to get to fully colonized? Mine usually get there in about 10-14 days.

2. How do you choose clones? Have you seen any better results from plate pins vs grown out fruits? I know you should obviously choose clones that have desirable traits but I've had a lot of MS tubs so far that have fruited relatively consistently and I don't know if there's a specific way I should choose clones when dealing with somewhat uniform flushes.


Thanks again for sharing man, it was super helpful. Got a much better idea of what I should be working towards now instead of feeling like I'm just hitting a wall.



EDIT: Also, just realized that if a plate pin comes from a plate that has mold on it too, the mold could easily hitch a ride on the pin to the new plate. Didn't think about that at all, I just thought a pin clone would be completely clean since it's a clone but since most of my plate pins were on early T1/T2 plates that likely weren't completely axenic there's almost certainly some hidden shit that rode along.


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:chems:


Edited by Lenz (02/03/21 08:28 PM)


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Offlinestarbones
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Lenz] * 1
    #27185480 - 02/04/21 12:15 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

The PP5 deli containers I've been using are roughly 4.5" or 115mm and I like to see a strong culture reach from the center to the edge or near it by under the third week mark at 70f. Increasing the temperature greatly increases the speed but also lets any bacteria go hog wild so I don't fuck with it anymore. I think 10-14 days is more than plenty fast enough for what I'd consider a good culture.

Choosing clones for me works like such, keep in mind I use dirt cheap PP5s for this reason.

I germinate MS across a few plates.
From those plates I take transfers from the best looking clean growth and expand to multiple transfer plates.
From those I transfer as needed until I have a number of plates with clean MS to work with.
This is where I diverge from most Shroomery members.
I take those genetics and I try to give each a shot at flourishing by using micro-mini tubs. This is probably a very much un-needed step but for me as of the last few months has really given me the genetics that shine.
This was RW done like this, I could see the winning genetics in each minitub within my monotub and from this I could select the fastest clustering variant.

Those first ones that shot up before any other became an ideal cluster for me. What made me chose this as my initial specimen was the speed and the uniformity of it. You can see that it put up multiple fruits that were comparable in the trio there.

The same with Melmak here, it becomes increasingly easy to see which is the performer of the bunch.



So right now I had no idea what these fruits were all about other than that in a sea of MS they fruited in clusters, large and healthy. So the next step became taking clones from these and each selection was cloned to around six plates each. During that time I tried to do some potency testing but that's easier said than done since you're working from many different mushrooms so right now I could only eyeball it based on how me or my guinea pigs tripped from what they got out of the cluster.

So the plates that were made from these clones I transfered away from as soon as I started seeing the tissue rivert and put down my onto/into the agar again because I always seem to have bacteria ride-along. Now as the transfer plates grow out there are a number of "strains" still within the clone and I've been taught that at times monocultures can be poor performers because the clone fruit had multiple strains for a reason.

Either way I don't know, what I do know is that the fastest growing mycelium from that clone transfer plate becomes the next thing that's going to be put to grains to grow out for potency testing. If across all the plates I find the potency lacking then there's no reason to keep any of them and it's a wash, so always better to have as much on the possible as one can I figure.

This is just the way I've been doing it and how I've been working my genetics. Your mileage may vary but it's been my experience that strong performing mycelium on agar will perform to a robustly fruiting culture, I dunno if there is a correlation with potency though.


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OfflineGypsyBastard
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: starbones]
    #27185793 - 02/04/21 08:18 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

I have done something similar to your trays in the past with some round tupperware containers. modded them just like a full size mono and worked pretty well as a test. What did you use from spawn for your test trays and at what ratio? Just curious, I think you're the first I've seen do something like this. (not to say no one else has, I just hadn't seen it :smile: )


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OfflineEugene Gesuale
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: GypsyBastard]
    #27185917 - 02/04/21 09:40 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

I’m gonna prep enough coir to spawn one myco quart of oats. I no prepped the oats 200dry grams oats to 150 grams water. I want a 1:2 oats coir ratio. Is that by weight or volume? I was going to add 475 grams water for every 100 grams coir. How much coir should I use?


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Offlineclockworkshroom
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Eugene Gesuale]
    #27185932 - 02/04/21 09:46 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Volume, so you want 2 Qts coir. What are you spawning in? It might be quite a thin substrate if you use a shoebox. 300g coir would be way more than enough, if you have plenty then do that to be safe.


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p9hu7's clean spawn thread


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OfflineEugene Gesuale
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: clockworkshroom]
    #27185937 - 02/04/21 09:50 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

This myc is super aggressive and fast. I could do a 1:4 with it and have full colonization in 7-9 days. I was going to use a formula container to help keep it thick if my ratio was lower


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Offlineclockworkshroom
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Eugene Gesuale]
    #27186009 - 02/04/21 10:28 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

I've just shook 20 jars, I need to lie down. No one told me this was a workout too. Need an assistant.


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p9hu7's clean spawn thread


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OfflineGypsyBastard
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: clockworkshroom]
    #27186014 - 02/04/21 10:31 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

haha. for real. I've been thinking of rigging up some kind of paint shakers to shake my grain jars. Also maybe a bike tire bouncer for the stubborn jars.


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OfflineMLPismyOPSEC
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: shadyshroomie]
    #27186105 - 02/04/21 11:24 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

shadyshroomie said:
Also to those who color their agar, I used around 50 drops of food coloring and the plates were tinted but by no means colored. Do I simply need to use a butt load of food color to get the agar to turn blue/green/red? Or does it also depend what type of nutrients I’m using.




That's really odd, is it old food coloring? I used 5 drops per 500 mL and they were a little darker than Lenz' plates in post #27184896. Spice Supreme brand, pretty positive i found it at the dollar store.


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OfflineGypsyBastard
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: MLPismyOPSEC]
    #27186281 - 02/04/21 01:20 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

I've heard some coloring agents will break down in the PC. I know someone tested beet juice as a coloring agent once and found that it does this. Just a thought...maybe the food coloring is using something that doesn't hold up to high temps?


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InvisibleWall.E
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: GypsyBastard]
    #27186303 - 02/04/21 01:33 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

I plan on spawning some pleurotus to hardwood fire pellets at some point in the next few days. Is there a good tek on ratios and added nutrition? I don't want to order soybean hulls if I don't have to, I have a ton of other shit that might work but I just wanted to do my own research


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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Wall.E]
    #27186305 - 02/04/21 01:34 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Myc_Hunt said:
I plan on spawning some pleurotus to hardwood fire pellets at some point in the next few days. Is there a good tek on ratios and added nutrition? I don't want to order soybean hulls if I don't have to, I have a ton of other shit that might work but I just wanted to do my own research




Try here:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/14258160/page/1


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InvisibleMunchauzen
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Wall.E]
    #27186307 - 02/04/21 01:35 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)



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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Munchauzen]
    #27186313 - 02/04/21 01:38 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Ooh,I scooped ya munch ; )


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