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tryptkaloids
Learner



Registered: 02/08/15
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: starbones]
#27044617 - 11/17/20 09:26 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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You're wasting a lot of spores going to grain first. With agar i don't have to use most of a syringe to get a decent clone. I just need .01% of a print to find good genes and grow tons of mushrooms
-------------------- "Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage Flowchart for Recommended plan of action. Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms Use the Damn search engine After you know what you're doing, take a break Pick a book, Make some chips! Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
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starbones
I'm an alien, I eat uranium.



Registered: 03/04/20
Posts: 1,131
Last seen: 2 months, 18 days
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: tryptkaloids]
#27044621 - 11/17/20 09:29 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well alright then I will do er up that way.
My stable of prints and swabs should get used. I got melmak swabs from a fellow member here and I am hoping it is not a bitch to germinate.
Just streak the plate with the swab? Do a couple plates for good measure?
-------------------- Listen, I'm steel fisted with the iron lung Heavy metal ballads out the guitar where lions run.
 
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: starbones]
#27044624 - 11/17/20 09:32 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
starbones said: The difference is my finger is me. I am not a collection of germinated spore forming mycelium.
Yes, I know. It's not the same, it was allegorical. The resolution is what I was clumsily aiming at. I am a half literate ape person
Think of how many transfers it takes to generate a monoculture....anyways, I'm sure you get it.
Yeah streak a couple of plates, you may need to get a tuft and place it in the agar.
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tryptkaloids
Learner



Registered: 02/08/15
Posts: 12,641
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#27044631 - 11/17/20 09:40 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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It helps to prep your agar softer and more nutritious
-------------------- "Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage Flowchart for Recommended plan of action. Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms Use the Damn search engine After you know what you're doing, take a break Pick a book, Make some chips! Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
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Rumpleforeskin
Scientist new to mycology



Registered: 07/05/20
Posts: 82
Loc: Canada
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: starbones]
#27044677 - 11/17/20 10:47 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
starbones said:
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: That makes no sense. Why not exclude everything that doesn’t colonize well as a starting point? I mean I get spores to grains attraction for some people but, if I was struggling with contams I’d be running everything past a plate.
Because I could be giving up something great in the transfer. What if one of those strands of mycelium I leave behind is the absolute shit? I know it's risky and I end up dumping some jars but when I see the right fruit, a fast growing cluster then I take a sample of that to agar.
I dunno it just makes sense to me to see the genetic expression from spore to fruit to know which one I want. It worked extremely well with my Amazonians in my opinion. At the end of the day the goal is to find genetics worth cloning and I believe that the best way to do this is maximize the dice roll and THEN do agar. I can clean up the sample of the clone I want and I'll know that it can fruit, it was the fastest fruit in the tub and it had clustering.
Shotgun approach I guess, Grain is cheap, jars get cleaned and I take the shortcut tom getting my clone. Lazy as shit maybe haha.
I'm starting with MSS inoculated to grain and doing G2G transfers for my first run of things. At the same time, I've started working with isolations on agar from the same varieties. As my transfers increase, I use my older clean agar plates to start new jars for G2G to bags. That should be my second and third runs. By then, I hope to have fruiting tubs to start high grading and cloning. I've lost some bags to contamination, but think most of that is from not cooking the bags properly and pulling in too much water (creating an anaerobic environment at the bottom of my bags). My thought is that with this approach I can: -Get things rolling ASAP -Develop my agar skills with a bit less pressure -Keep selecting for healthy mycelium on plates -Increase genetic diversity options for cloning from various tubs on the first round. In other words, if all tubs are from MSS to jars to bags to tubs, then every tub likely has a different genetic makeup. This in my opinion means more genetics to select from/clone/isolate.
Thoughts?
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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I wouldn't g2g anything inoculated with spore solution. Your plan seems overly optimistic. I don't know what makes you guys think that spores to grain equals more genetic diversity, and more opportunities.
I would prepare for contamination and disappointment. This plan relies on the assumption that you have clean syringes. You also assume that you're capable of maintaining these tubs without experience with fruiting tubs. It would appear as though you're putting th horse before the cart.
Cook up some agar, clean your cultures up. Put those cultures to grain, then spawn tubs. This is a good plan, your plan is full of holes and will likely waste your time and resources. I'm not trying to be pessimistic, what I'm saying is sound reasoning.
Just think it through. If you lack the experience to catch contamination on your grains then you'll be compounding your frustrations down the line with g2g. Your syringes are definitely going to contaminate some percentage of your grain in some recognizable way, like stalling, trich, or visible bacteria. Those jars or bags will be tossed, you'll feel good about the remainder. Those may be infected as well but you just can't see it, so you g2g this bad spawn. Spawn run is complete, you spawn tubs, tubs take forever and then you get trich or a very sparse/shitty flush...this will cause you to generate threads asking "but why". This will waste time and it will discourage you.
Agar first. Then learn how to properly hydrate your grain because that's an entirely separate problem that people run into. Then learn how to successfully transfer from your plate to grain. Once you do that you'll still have contamination but you'll be getting closer. Soo much for you to have to learn without having to add the uncertainty of spores to grain.
Edited by Stipe-n Cap (11/17/20 11:12 PM)
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Inthepit
Aum Mani Padme Hum



Registered: 08/20/19
Posts: 1,742
Loc: Puerto Rico
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#27044884 - 11/18/20 05:35 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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What a great reply!
I've been doing my own little tilting at windmills and it's pretty discouraging. I'm happy my next shroom is a standard grow. Would be nice get some success again.
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Th3AngryCuban
Stranger

Registered: 09/14/20
Posts: 7
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: starbones]
#27045017 - 11/18/20 07:47 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
starbones said: I always skip agar with MS because of the genetic lottery. I want the most genetic expression I can get to find something I want to grow.
I know it's useful for cleaning up cultures but for me I don't want to gamble on the chance of losing something exceptional by leaving it behind when I transfer.
My personal genetics have all come from clones made this way. I take the shotgun approach and knock up grain jars usually. Lose some of course but the cleanest ones get special into a shoebox and from there I can see which genetics I want to take, looking for speed, clustering, size etc.
That's how I got my Amazonians that grow exceptional in my opinion. They're lightning fast, consistent in size for the most part, they grow healthy myc that seems fairly contam resistant and they don't seem to mind conditions being subpar.



There's some B in these pictures too.
If they were sporeless I'd dance a little dance. These however are prolific spore pissers. I gave some prints out and I'm hoping it performs well for others. If this was a fair world I'd send LC instead. They grew huge when I shoved a broken spawn jar into half a can of paint and cased it haha. It's in my sig.
Where did you get those containers? I use epsom salt to dehydrate my grow, and that would be great to use.
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
Th3AngryCuban said: Where did you get those containers? I use epsom salt to dehydrate my grow, and that would be great to use.
Lol. Those are dehydrator racks, and yeah, probably better than salt
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,281
Loc: where?
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Stipe-n Cap] 1
#27045033 - 11/18/20 08:00 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Salt drying?
Wasting genetic diversity??
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy]
#27045039 - 11/18/20 08:05 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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:twilightzoneemoji:
Yeah....
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Wall.E
Bacteria's Bitch



Registered: 06/05/20
Posts: 2,860
Loc: Fungal Void
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#27045048 - 11/18/20 08:20 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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No one asked for it but I think my write up on what I understand about fungi might help to clear some stuff up for you starbones.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27045046
-------------------- Life’s shit, but I’m loving it
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starbones
I'm an alien, I eat uranium.



Registered: 03/04/20
Posts: 1,131
Last seen: 2 months, 18 days
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Wall.E]
#27045122 - 11/18/20 09:09 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Fuckin A I'll read that.
mushboy et al, sometimes I think I know something but as you can see I don't mind being enlightened and changing things up. I'll fight on stuff I'm absolutely sure on but if spore to agar is the way then I'll go said way for sure.
Day 3 without fungus gnats. The pyrethrin I fogged with and then hit any subs that had a gnat on them with BTI a pyrethrin seem to have done the trick. Wonderful stuff, house smells great. It will degrade on my subs/fruits in 48 hours so safe as hell. I think this is THE method people should use. BTI and pyrethrin.
-------------------- Listen, I'm steel fisted with the iron lung Heavy metal ballads out the guitar where lions run.
 
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: starbones]
#27045192 - 11/18/20 09:49 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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I’m growing pretty good with plain old “agar-LC-grain-coir/verm” no chems or BTI necessary.
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Th3AngryCuban
Stranger

Registered: 09/14/20
Posts: 7
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#27045263 - 11/18/20 10:24 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
p9hu7 said:
Quote:
Th3AngryCuban said: Where did you get those containers? I use epsom salt to dehydrate my grow, and that would be great to use.
Lol. Those are dehydrator racks, and yeah, probably better than salt
Baked epsom salt is a great food safe desiccant. You’re not supposed to put it on the mushrooms, but you place it in a sealed container elevated/separates from the baked epsom salt. Those dehydrating racks would work great with epsom salt.
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vsdlmao
Stranger


Registered: 10/03/20
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Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Can i get some thoughts on the surface conditions? Looks fine to me but the substrate is shrinking around the sides and that kinda makes me consider misting, since i increased fae because fruiting stalled a little bit
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MushroomNewbie2
Amateur(ish) Cultivator



Registered: 10/06/20
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: vsdlmao] 1
#27045287 - 11/18/20 10:33 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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I don’t think you wanna mist anymore... you’re already glistening. Cheers!
-------------------- Good Vibes Only Everyone. Like, Chill. Tried: Weed, Shrooms. Cultivated: Shrooms!

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Camera93
We got dicks like Jesus



Registered: 08/15/18
Posts: 3,224
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: vsdlmao]
#27045291 - 11/18/20 10:34 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
vsdlmao said: Can i get some thoughts on the surface conditions? Looks fine to me but the substrate is shrinking around the sides and that kinda makes me consider misting, since i increased fae because fruiting stalled a little bit

Don't mist it, misting isn't to replace substrate moisture but rather to maintain a nice microclimate on the pinning surface.
I suggest giving the FAE a boost like you said and see how she goes Whats your tub set up? poly, MP, EZ dial?
-------------------- All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I’m fine. Whatever you decide won’t really impact our survival Close your eyes, and do the best that you can
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vsdlmao
Stranger


Registered: 10/03/20
Posts: 20
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Camera93]
#27045297 - 11/18/20 10:37 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Camera93 said:
Don't mist it, misting isn't to replace substrate moisture but rather to maintain a nice microclimate on the pinning surface.
I suggest giving the FAE a boost like you said and see how she goes Whats your tub set up? poly, MP, EZ dial?
I used bod's unmodofied tek and only coir as substrate But yeah i kinda implied that misting also helps replacing sub moisture a bit
Edited by vsdlmao (11/18/20 10:38 AM)
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starbones
I'm an alien, I eat uranium.



Registered: 03/04/20
Posts: 1,131
Last seen: 2 months, 18 days
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Pastywhyte]
#27045327 - 11/18/20 10:49 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: I’m growing pretty good with plain old “agar-LC-grain-coir/verm” no chems or BTI necessary.
BTI bacteria is only being used over here until I can go a month without seeing a gnat. It's been 3 days without them after I hell fogged my place with pyrethrin to kill the adults. The BTI is insurance against any that may have snuck into a sub. A fan keeps the adults from flying into them but they're persistent bastards and will crawl up and into anything. Their sense for fungi drives them berserker mode from the stuff I've been reading. Trichoderma drives them apeshit to get in it and roll around in it, oviposit in it so their larvae can eat it.
Pretty nuts the controls mushroom houses growing white buttons have to use to TRY and keep the fuckers out when they get an outbreak. Little fuckers are like the Mirror Universe honeybees. Bees cover themselves in pollen to make nice honey, Fungus gnats roll aroud in trich and spread pathogens.
Canada just got it's first legal mushroom grower Numinus. My genetics guy is affiliated with them. I think now for me it's important to learn proper usage of fungicides, pesticides, etc. We're moving towards legalized cultivation licenses and I would mortgage up some commercially zoned land to build my own mushroom farm, licensed. A few tunnels so I could grow Reishi and other medicinal use fungi.
Lots of products that can be used are organic and OMRI certified. That's important stuff to learn how to use, where to obtain etc.
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