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Whyterye



Registered: 02/23/18
Posts: 1,218
Loc: Colorado
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Inthepit]
#27030274 - 11/09/20 01:43 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well I have been fucking up .
Thanks !!!
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stareatclouds
star eat clouds?



Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 9,887
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Whyterye] 1
#27030294 - 11/09/20 01:55 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
fightingcherries said: Do you mean dial in the tubs more or do you humidify the room or something?
Tubs, for sure. "Dialing in" means toggling the FAE on the sub until you hit the sweet spot of constant evaporation without losing moisture/drying out. The contents of the tub create the humidity so there's no reason/need to humidify your grow area.
Each setup is different and everyone's climate plays a part. The "settings" also change throughout the grow, too. After a flush, the subs moisture content drops, which is why people mist/dunk in between flushes.
Shit people do to toggle FAE: using tape to block/uncover air holes completely, adjusting Poly (tons of configurations in different holes), cracking a lid/flipping it upside down, adding/removing layers of MP tape, etc.
Regardless of setup, the idea remains the same: find a level of positive airflow that keeps beads of moisture constantly evaporating from the surface of your sub (this description is for a colonized layer, not a casing, which should be moist. A casing with visible beads of moisture is going to be way too wet). An extreme example of conditions to fix: if water is pooling, increase FAE for more evaporation. If sub is drying out, dial back the FAE so your heat/moisture isn't escaping.
For the most part, you can eventually find a ballpark setting that works across the board for your tubs with minimal maintenance. For me it was Dilated's ironed Polyfilters. But you should always take note of what your surface conditions tell you and adjust for optimal setup. That's the name of the game.
Being honest, I just got good enough at replicating my "standard" setup for 66 quarts that I rarely had to pay attention to anything and it'd work. They're cubes; they'll grow.
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xspak
Stranger
Registered: 06/08/20
Posts: 82
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Whyterye]
#27030295 - 11/09/20 01:55 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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In case you guys don't look at the advanced forum, this here is very interesting:
Stability of psilocybin and its four analogs in the biomass of the psychotropic mushroom Psilocybe cubensis
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27027848
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trippytimes
♡contamination queen♡



Registered: 09/02/14
Posts: 1,097
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy]
#27030316 - 11/09/20 02:02 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
mushboy said:
Quote:
trippytimes said: Lol I cranked the fan up and started misting 4 times a day just to get the flush to come in full

For real I can actually show the tubs that didn't get misted and fan cranked to max v.s. the ones that did.... I have two separate rooms one had the fan on and sprayed 4x a day while the other sat untouched. I actually prep my sub very wet. 4.5qt water to 650g coir 2qt-3qt verm. 1/4cup gyp. The difference was amazing because I only did it for 2 1/2 days. And 7 tubs are ready to be picked while the other 5 are not.Quote:
mushboy said:
Quote:
trippytimes said:
Quote:
mushboy said:
Quote:
trippytimes said: Lol I cranked the fan up and started misting 4 times a day just to get the flush to come in full

For real I can actually show the tubs that didn't get misted and fan cranked to max v.s. the ones that did....
Pics

Gonna post them when I get back from shopping. Willy myco lol not really a insult I mean the dude makes money without even growing.
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starbones
I'm an alien, I eat uranium.



Registered: 03/04/20
Posts: 1,131
Last seen: 2 months, 18 days
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: trippytimes]
#27030333 - 11/09/20 02:14 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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House humidity is bone dry and with a pasty dial like I said yesterday misting once a day is too much. This is with running a box fan. Pinset was wall to wall without casing.
Somethings fucky.
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,281
Loc: where?
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: trippytimes]
#27030336 - 11/09/20 02:15 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
trippytimes said: Willy myco lol not really a insult I mean the dude makes money without even growing.
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TedsDead



Registered: 01/03/17
Posts: 4,998
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: starbones] 1
#27030338 - 11/09/20 02:17 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Did u sign up for the trip team?
-------------------- weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed... -the fabulous furry freak bros If you can buy it, you can burn it!
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25947396#25947396
Edited by TedsDead (11/09/20 02:17 PM)
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stareatclouds
star eat clouds?



Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 9,887
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: starbones]
#27030347 - 11/09/20 02:27 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm not really sure what your specific issue is? And I'm not sure if you're running tubs or bags or what?
Yes, misting too much can lead to mold issues if you're keeping them too wet. The vast majority of my shoebox totes that got mold were splotches on the bottom/corners of the sub, very rarely the top. That's because I'd forget about them and let water pool down there and create optimal mold conditions. But the surface would be dryer and rarely have green.
Coir is a fine casing material for cubes. I case/fruit at spawning, mist once then leave it alone. I don't think exposed grains in a sub matters that much and neither do many growers better than me. But since I case at spawning, it's not something I deal with anymore. I will say that I wind up with a million exposed grains after my first harvest and I routinely would pull 2 more after, no problem.
I'd rather have a dryer sub than wetter, for sure. Especially with mold issues. Be more specific with your setup and issues and I'm sure we can figure out the vectors.
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A.k.a
Stranger



Registered: 10/27/19
Posts: 16,782
Loc: Gaming the system
Last seen: 3 hours, 41 minutes
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: xspak]
#27030350 - 11/09/20 02:29 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
xspak said: In case you guys don't look at the advanced forum, this here is very interesting:
Stability of psilocybin and its four analogs in the biomass of the psychotropic mushroom Psilocybe cubensis
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27027848
I saw that on Facebook yesterday it’s kinda shocking how quick it degrades. I was surprised room temp was better than freezer too. I’m more interested in degradation of whole fruits though especially after seeing that.
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LAGM2020     
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xspak
Stranger
Registered: 06/08/20
Posts: 82
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: A.k.a]
#27030360 - 11/09/20 02:36 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
A.k.a said:
Quote:
xspak said: In case you guys don't look at the advanced forum, this here is very interesting:
Stability of psilocybin and its four analogs in the biomass of the psychotropic mushroom Psilocybe cubensis
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27027848
I saw that on Facebook yesterday it’s kinda shocking how quick it degrades. I was surprised room temp was better than freezer too. I’m more interested in degradation of whole fruits though especially after seeing that.
Yes, it is pretty bad news ! That room temperature is better than freezing is good news though - even though I don't understand why that is.
I would say for someone who grows only for oneself it is much better to do small amounts but continuously, having fresh shrooms for every journey. It doesn't make sense to grow tubs that give you enough shrooms for a year if they end up being half as strong after a month.
I would guess whole shrooms degrade a little slower than powdered.
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stareatclouds
star eat clouds?



Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 9,887
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: xspak]
#27030385 - 11/09/20 02:59 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Definitely needs a comparison between whole fruits for the same period. I'd heard grinding to powder made degradation faster because more of the fruit was exposed to open air/elements. I want them to store dried fruits for 3 months and then grind and test for comparison.
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Yeetusdeetus


Registered: 11/23/19
Posts: 1,242
Last seen: 5 hours, 1 minute
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Quote:
xspak said:
Quote:
A.k.a said:
Quote:
xspak said: In case you guys don't look at the advanced forum, this here is very interesting:
Stability of psilocybin and its four analogs in the biomass of the psychotropic mushroom Psilocybe cubensis
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27027848
I saw that on Facebook yesterday it’s kinda shocking how quick it degrades. I was surprised room temp was better than freezer too. I’m more interested in degradation of whole fruits though especially after seeing that.
Yes, it is pretty bad news ! That room temperature is better than freezing is good news though - even though I don't understand why that is.
I would say for someone who grows only for oneself it is much better to do small amounts but continuously, having fresh shrooms for every journey. It doesn't make sense to grow tubs that give you enough shrooms for a year if they end up being half as strong after a month.
I would guess whole shrooms degrade a little slower than powdered.
From a thread on blue tea:
Quote:
Kizzle said:You don't need to chop them up either if they're fresh, that's probably just more unnecessary oxidation.
Quote:
stareatclouds said: I'm not really sure what your specific issue is? And I'm not sure if you're running tubs or bags or what?
Yes, misting too much can lead to mold issues if you're keeping them too wet. The vast majority of my shoebox totes that got mold were splotches on the bottom/corners of the sub, very rarely the top. That's because I'd forget about them and let water pool down there and create optimal mold conditions. But the surface would be dryer and rarely have green.
Coir is a fine casing material for cubes. I case/fruit at spawning, mist once then leave it alone. I don't think exposed grains in a sub matters that much and neither do many growers better than me. But since I case at spawning, it's not something I deal with anymore. I will say that I wind up with a million exposed grains after my first harvest and I routinely would pull 2 more after, no problem.
I'd rather have a dryer sub than wetter, for sure. Especially with mold issues. Be more specific with your setup and issues and I'm sure we can figure out the vectors.
Does casing with coir at spawning really do anything? When I’ve tried it the myc just colonized the coir but the pinset wasn’t really any better than a late casing
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A.k.a
Stranger



Registered: 10/27/19
Posts: 16,782
Loc: Gaming the system
Last seen: 3 hours, 41 minutes
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Yeetusdeetus]
#27030411 - 11/09/20 03:26 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Coir isn’t a real casing but I always do the top layer at spawn. Besides covering up the grain I’ve got a super dry climate so the top layer makes a huge difference for me condition wise.
I’ll occasionally do a peat casing for regular cubes but I haven’t really noticed much difference. I think it helps a lot more if you don’t have your tubs dialed in yet. Once you can maintain good conditions the benefit seems marginal.
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LAGM2020     
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starbones
I'm an alien, I eat uranium.



Registered: 03/04/20
Posts: 1,131
Last seen: 2 months, 18 days
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Oh this was one of my Pasty tubs, actually two of em got trich which didn't show up until after a canopy was going so.. yeah that's from me misting way too much since I figure once that canopy was up around the sub it REALLY just held the water there.
Not overly aggressive the trich, just a small patch that only affected a few fruits in a size about the circumference of a tennis ball. I let the tubs completely finish and it barely grew. Looks like to me anyways it was growing on some exposed grain. Same thing on the other unit. The patches were closer to the middle of the tub and around the area where the first biggest fruits came in.
These are my last two tubs for awhile everything else is in bags right now and they're looking happy and healthy. There's over 30 8x5 unicorn bags pinning and while the sub is heavy from my stupidass misting them too much with my 2gal they seem to be doing fine.
I've started colonizing 12x8 gusset bags now in large round circles since that's the shape the bag seems to want to take with a 3" sub pancake in it. I didn't think about a strength difference between polyethylene and polypropelene so of course 2 mil isn't very strong to stand on it's own very well. I have a 4 foot 5 shelf stainless steel wire rack they're sitting on now so the tops of the bags are attached to the shelf above it and that's working. There's a 1/2" hole in each bag covered with micropore for GE while they colonize and I guess I'll be playing with ideas on how to let them breathe during fruiting.
I don't want to chance a fungus gnat finding their way in if one or two of those bastards show up again so I'll probably figure out a way to provide FAE when the time comes. Not worried about contaminate spores getting in them so only need a physical barrier that has air and moisture permeation which makes me think I could cut a coffee filter into a square and affix it to a hole using gorilla tape which will stick to ldpe. Should allow in-vitro fruiting and if not well there's nothing to say I can't just put the bags in a pasty tub, cut the bags down to the sub and deal with it that way way the time comes.
I have a feeling RIGHT NOW that my dumb dumb brain that can't remember why I was needlessly misting everyday is the current mold vector.
What I was saying earlier is it becomes aggressively confusing reading "Do this, do that, but don't actually do this" when you read up on things. Like using oats for spawn. There should be a big, large, blinking red caveat that your success with oats will be great solely depending on the type of oats you get. Are they intented for milling or were they grown for feed? Both are oats but both are WILDLY different in their composition.


Prep for oats meeting milling standards will not work with prep meant for feed standards. Just doesn't work the same. The oats I got now are balls to the wall feed oats and won't take 20 minutes at a boil without turning into burst starchy shit v.s. oats from the same place this summer which seems like they were closer to what milling oats should be but failed to meet the standards a mill would want so got sold as feed. Those can take 45 minutes before I start seeing anything burst. So I asked around and spoke to one of the local farmers that drops his crops at the grain elevator which I get my oats from and he tells me he grows oats for milling but depending on weather conditions he can end up with shit that doesn't meet standard so it becomes feed.
Anyway blah blah, fuck oats. If anyone cares though the amount of cellulose and lignin in oats is much higher than wheat at first blush. That's the acid detergent fiber. What % of it is cellulose and % is lignin in the oat Idfk. This is on some australian vars who the fuck knows what's going on in North America.

This is what I mean, Aka just states that coir isn't a casing but if you read back on Shroomery not too long ago Bod said CVG, C or even V alone works great, Pasty says they use coir, etc. Fuckin fruuuuuustrating.
-------------------- Listen, I'm steel fisted with the iron lung Heavy metal ballads out the guitar where lions run.
 
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starbones
I'm an alien, I eat uranium.



Registered: 03/04/20
Posts: 1,131
Last seen: 2 months, 18 days
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: starbones]
#27030443 - 11/09/20 03:51 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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All that crap aside I've ordered thiophanate-methyl. I don't particularly care if it's a crutch. A 10L jug was relatively peanuts since 85ml of it to 75l water is the ratio used as a casing drench for white button mushroom farms to stop trichoderma spp.
It won't stop trich coming from spawn though. However it's so relatively cheap that if I'm doing agar, LC and the works it feels dumb not to have it as a tool as well. Despite the feelings of some folks around here. I mean fuck sure agar works in a SAB but it works a lot better infront of a flowhood. There's no reason to gamble and tie a hand behind your back. I feel like I am going to take flak for this but stop for a minute and ask yourself why someone treating peat with calcium hydroxide for casing is any different? Bleh.
RR constantly drops the "Well the mushroom farmers do it like.." so this is that. It's a product used in white button mushroom farming during the casing stage and allows for trichoderma spp. free harvests with a noted yield improvement somehow (Doesn't work on trich aggressivum) I mean shit I got the idea from RR and Workman to begin with who both used it with success but found it unnecessary for them.
It's just another cultivation tool in the end and I don't think there's any shame in employing it. I'm not some organic blueberry farmer. I grow fungus that gets me motherfucked so I can be-bop to psytrance and I'll regularly snort bolivian marching powder made in some godforsaken jungle with diesel fuel and battery acid.
Edited by starbones (11/09/20 04:13 PM)
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Ovoidhunter
Buttery Crescent



Registered: 09/17/16
Posts: 2,016
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: starbones]
#27030482 - 11/09/20 04:30 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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How long in theory could you keep isolating one culture and keep growing it?
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trippytimes
♡contamination queen♡



Registered: 09/02/14
Posts: 1,097
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: TedsDead]
#27030490 - 11/09/20 04:35 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
TedsDead said: Did u sign up for the trip team?
While you are busting my crotch...
I've been harvesting for the last 3 hours already have filled two dehydrators had to go out and buy another one.... I'm averaging 900 grams I'm so excited...... This is my best tubs yet.... Only have done 2 tubs filled 2 dehydrators packed.. 5 more to go... Dumb question though say I run out of dehydrator space but still have a tub or two left.... Can't you just harvest them and put a fan over it for 24 hours until the dehydrators are done
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fahtster
Now With 33%More Faht



Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 9,270
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: trippytimes]
#27030497 - 11/09/20 04:42 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yes

Faht
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starbones
I'm an alien, I eat uranium.



Registered: 03/04/20
Posts: 1,131
Last seen: 2 months, 18 days
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: trippytimes]
#27030500 - 11/09/20 04:44 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yeah you can.

Before I got my 160l dehydrator my 3 dehydrators would be maxed out and I'd have boxes of fruits so I'd just throw them on a "runway" in my grow area where a box fan blew lightly through a free-standing electric baseboard heater until the dehydrators were free. Cut down on drying the next batch as the fan/heater had started to dry them.
To make things more efficient once the fruits reduced in size in the dehydrators I would consolidate them by combining multiple trays together to free up lots of space to add more in an assembly line-like process.
During my most productive days I'd be harvesting 5+ mountain piled cardboard flats that my 1 quart jars came in.
A Cabelas 160l dehydrator is a fucking gem for bulk growing.
-------------------- Listen, I'm steel fisted with the iron lung Heavy metal ballads out the guitar where lions run.
 
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Yeetusdeetus


Registered: 11/23/19
Posts: 1,242
Last seen: 5 hours, 1 minute
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: starbones]
#27030570 - 11/09/20 05:55 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
starbones said: All that crap aside I've ordered thiophanate-methyl. I don't particularly care if it's a crutch. A 10L jug was relatively peanuts since 85ml of it to 75l water is the ratio used as a casing drench for white button mushroom farms to stop trichoderma spp.
It won't stop trich coming from spawn though. However it's so relatively cheap that if I'm doing agar, LC and the works it feels dumb not to have it as a tool as well. Despite the feelings of some folks around here. I mean fuck sure agar works in a SAB but it works a lot better infront of a flowhood. There's no reason to gamble and tie a hand behind your back. I feel like I am going to take flak for this but stop for a minute and ask yourself why someone treating peat with calcium hydroxide for casing is any different? Bleh.
RR constantly drops the "Well the mushroom farmers do it like.." so this is that. It's a product used in white button mushroom farming during the casing stage and allows for trichoderma spp. free harvests with a noted yield improvement somehow (Doesn't work on trich aggressivum) I mean shit I got the idea from RR and Workman to begin with who both used it with success but found it unnecessary for them.
It's just another cultivation tool in the end and I don't think there's any shame in employing it. I'm not some organic blueberry farmer. I grow fungus that gets me motherfucked so I can be-bop to psytrance and I'll regularly snort bolivian marching powder made in some godforsaken jungle with diesel fuel and battery acid.
You might find this interesting since you’re into all the lil details lol
Quote:
Yeetusdeetus said:
Quote:
p9hu7 said:
Quote:
Edmunter said:
Quote:
p9hu7 said: I'm not sure that anyone understands the relationship between active species and any kind of beneficial bacteria. Bacteria is often used in the gourmet industry, the issue of legality has prevented any real research into those relationships regarding active species.
Bacillus megaterium has been shown to stimulate primordia formation, Bacillus thermofibricolous, if introduced at spawning, inhibits the growth of competitor molds in rice bran/sawdust spawn. Bacillus subtilis QST713 has been used as a biofungicide coating on grain spawn to prevent Trichoderma aggressivum contaminations.
It would be great to be involved in the same work regarding actives.
Thanks ive added this to my thread https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26927413/vc/1#26927413

It seems obvious that there are complex relationships between the environment and any given organism. Though we currently strive for axenic spawn inoculation I believe the day will come when we will be recruiting the symbiotic bacterial and fungal alliances found in nature. Those practices are common in industrial level production of gourmets in Asia. Mushrooms grown using these techniques are superior in every way when contrasted with axenic mushroom production. I don't see how it would be different for us, these practices may even have a direct effect on potency. There's only one way to find out.
Edit*
Here are some sources on the subject, these are by no means exhaustive, just enough to get your beak wet.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/egymushroom.wordpress.com/2011/09/09/mushroom-culture-bacillus/amp/
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/330711315_Impact_of_Bacillus_subtilis_QST713_mushroom_grain_spawn_treatment_on_yield_and_green_mould_control
https://academic.oup.com/femsle/article/218/2/271/530921
https://patents.google.com/patent/KR20040078027A/en
This last link outlines the procedure for the isolation of mycelial plane bacteria, which would be a good starting point for anyone attempting to isolate beneficial bacteria associated with active species. This would obviously require access to a lab and technicians, unless of course you are a lab technician...hint hint.

Quote:
This is what I mean, Aka just states that coir isn't a casing but if you read back on Shroomery not too long ago Bod said CVG, C or even V alone works great, Pasty says they use coir, etc. Fuckin fruuuuuustrating
I know what you mean . I like late casing with coir to help with consistent surface conditions if I’m not gonna be around for a day or two to check the surface
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