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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather]
#26988586 - 10/16/20 02:35 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ferather said:
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tryptkaloids said: Not only that, but actual numbers and ratios of materials used would go quite a way in establishing something that can be peer reviewed
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24012215#24012215
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Pastywhyte said: If he wanted it to take the shape of a relevant grow and seem super in depth he could run multiple clones or isolates across a variety of substrates in controlled settings. Then he could calculate the biological efficiency of each flush/total yield. Then he could put the results through a t test to strip out the noise and then, possibly have some data that would be useful/of interest to some of the people here.
A clone was put to WBS spawn, it was spawned to 12kg of plain paper pellets (not enriched), and spawned to 600g of paper pellets (enriched). The 12kg of plain took ages, the growth was weak, and produced roughly the same yield as the 600g enriched version.
Ask gourmet lovers what happens when they increase the nitrogen value of wood via supplementation.
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If you say Cubensis arent wood-lovers, and cannot decay cellulose, and dont like a high nitrogen value, I will laugh.
Well for starters your sample size is minuscule, a single clone. So because one clone performed in a certain manner that settles it? I used to have a clone that could do quite well on spent brewers grain. Does that mean all cubes love spent brewers grain? I had another clone that did best in a 66 quart mono at a 1:3 spawn ratio with a half inch top layer. Did terrible if you tried to do anything else with it. Does that mean cubes are best done in that exact manner? When I compared coir verm to a manure sub I used 3 separate clones and still worried my sample size was too small.
Obviously the sub volumes are far different in your example. Did it not occur to you that cubes do not like a massive substrate? They are not amarillia, a 20 quart volume sub is as big as I would go before I worry about yields falling off. Smaller subs naturally have a much better chance at achieving a high BE. It’s a totally skewed comparison right off the hop. You’re lacking a control that is super important, for the species. Why not try it with Pans next and make a really massive sub, could probably use it to heat your house before it killed itself.
That experiment as you’ve outlined it is totally lacking control given the hypothesis and species needs.
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A.k.a
Stranger



Registered: 10/27/19
Posts: 16,782
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Pastywhyte] 1
#26988594 - 10/16/20 02:40 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Using 20x as much substrate is a huge variable too.
I am curious about this cat litter paper stuff though, never heard of it.
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LAGM2020     
Edited by A.k.a (10/16/20 02:40 PM)
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Moabfighter
Tam Fighter



Registered: 12/13/15
Posts: 2,710
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: A.k.a]
#26988603 - 10/16/20 02:43 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Been about two days since inoculation. Pf tek. Nothing yet. Must be being impatient
-------------------- KSSS And PE WBS.
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Pastywhyte]
#26988618 - 10/16/20 02:51 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: I used to have a clone that could do quite well on spent brewers grain. Does that mean all cubes love spent brewers grain?
That can be genetics, or isolated growth. If you germinate on a certain media, and isolate, you can end up with genetics that are more media specific (expressed).
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: I had another clone that did best in a 66 quart mono at a 1:3 spawn ratio with a half inch top layer. Did terrible if you tried to do anything else with it. Does that mean cubes are best done in that exact manner?
Again this sound like the above, and because it's a clone (isolated genetics).
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Obviously the sub volumes are far different in your example. Did it not occur to you that cubes do not like a massive substrate? ... Smaller subs naturally have a much better chance at achieving a high BE.
How does that work in terms of total water availability? And even when I did equal sized, one enriched one not, the enriched outperformed the plain.
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Mateja


Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather]
#26988622 - 10/16/20 02:52 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ferather said: Google: You can also ask around
But I'm asking you, what kind of evidence do you have that coir readily germinates mold? How can you demonstrate this or explain to me how I can demonstrate this for myself at home cause I have a bunch of coir and a good portion of it sits in a tub perfectly hydrated so why isn't it growing all sorts of mold sitting there for weeks? And please don't Ask me to Google, you should be able to express your thoughts scientifically if you clam you have a solid understanding of this. I will point to all the successful coir bulk substrates than never germinated any mold as well as hydrated coir as the backup for my claim that it doesn't germinate mold and we get tons of posts daily demonstrating exactly that. Now I wonder how is it possible to confirm your claims without needing to imagine and theorize possible scenarios that I'm not confirming with any practice.
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
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Wall.E
Bacteria's Bitch



Registered: 06/05/20
Posts: 2,860
Loc: Fungal Void
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather]
#26988635 - 10/16/20 03:00 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ferather said:
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: I used to have a clone that could do quite well on spent brewers grain. Does that mean all cubes love spent brewers grain?
That can be genetics, or isolated growth. If you germinate on a certain media, and isolate, you can end up with genetics that are more media specific (expressed).
I shot a syringe into spent brewer's grain and got mushrooms 2 months later. They like 'em, that's it.
Pick up brewing and use the spent grains as substrate instead of oats/rye/popcorn/wbs and get a 2-for-1 hobby.
-------------------- Life’s shit, but I’m loving it
Edited by Wall.E (10/16/20 03:00 PM)
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Mycolorado
Hobbyist


Registered: 07/23/16
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Wall.E]
#26988649 - 10/16/20 03:05 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think the best way to use spent brewers grain would be to incorporate it into sterile sub as a sup and noc with LC.
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A.k.a
Stranger



Registered: 10/27/19
Posts: 16,782
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Wall.E]
#26988665 - 10/16/20 03:14 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Myc_Hunt said:
I shot a syringe into spent brewer's grain and got mushrooms 2 months later. They like 'em, that's it.
Pick up brewing and use the spent grains as substrate instead of oats/rye/popcorn/wbs and get a 2-for-1 hobby.
Then use that spent cube sub to run gourmets for the hat trick.
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LAGM2020     
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Mateja]
#26988671 - 10/16/20 03:17 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Edited by Ferather (10/16/20 03:23 PM)
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Mycolorado
Hobbyist


Registered: 07/23/16
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather]
#26988680 - 10/16/20 03:23 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I don’t follow.
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Mycolorado]
#26988683 - 10/16/20 03:24 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Must have been blip...
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Mtbromo
The Bro

Registered: 08/27/20
Posts: 186
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather]
#26988728 - 10/16/20 03:52 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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If you have say 5 agar dishes of MSS TOC, can you use cut bits from each different dishes to knock up a 1 grain jar like a big mix up? Or do you have to stick to 1 dish all in the same jar?
Does this carry on into jars to bulk? If you use different agar dishes of the TOC to knock up 6 quart jars can you mix all 6 jars to bulk or will they compete?
Thx
-------------------- Knowledge and Healing in a Handful.
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A.k.a
Stranger



Registered: 10/27/19
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Mtbromo]
#26988768 - 10/16/20 04:12 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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You can use whatever as long as it’s cube.
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LAGM2020     
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Wall.E
Bacteria's Bitch



Registered: 06/05/20
Posts: 2,860
Loc: Fungal Void
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Mycolorado]
#26988777 - 10/16/20 04:16 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Mycolorado said: I think the best way to use spent brewers grain would be to incorporate it into sterile sub as a sup and noc with LC.
You're gonna know better than me. My grow was strictly my own experiment. I basically just wanted substrate for free and was working at a brewery that gave away spent grain to pig farms, so I just grabbed some one day, threw it into quart ziplocs with some gypsum and pc'd it.
I was just throwing it out into the conversation to say "well this moron right here did it on accident, so it's not magic or difficult". I just thought there's probably enough similarities between barley and rye and other grains that it would work and it did, once. I got fired shortly after (unrelated to taking the grains) so I never tried again, but I'm sure you're right in that it's better as a supplement.
-------------------- Life’s shit, but I’m loving it
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Mycolorado
Hobbyist


Registered: 07/23/16
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Wall.E]
#26988815 - 10/16/20 04:32 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yeah, I wasn’t bashing you at all. I too have used it from local breweries. My thinking is that as it’s typically totally busted and is such a starchy mess that it would be better as a sup as opposed to a spawn.
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Wall.E
Bacteria's Bitch



Registered: 06/05/20
Posts: 2,860
Loc: Fungal Void
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Mycolorado]
#26988828 - 10/16/20 04:40 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I didn't get the vibe you were man, no worries. Just trying to explain myself a bit I guess
-------------------- Life’s shit, but I’m loving it
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Mycolorado
Hobbyist


Registered: 07/23/16
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Wall.E]
#26988836 - 10/16/20 04:42 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather] 2
#26988856 - 10/16/20 04:54 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ferather said:
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: I used to have a clone that could do quite well on spent brewers grain. Does that mean all cubes love spent brewers grain?
That can be genetics, or isolated growth. If you germinate on a certain media, and isolate, you can end up with genetics that are more media specific (expressed).
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: I had another clone that did best in a 66 quart mono at a 1:3 spawn ratio with a half inch top layer. Did terrible if you tried to do anything else with it. Does that mean cubes are best done in that exact manner?
Again this sound like the above, and because it's a clone (isolated genetics).
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Obviously the sub volumes are far different in your example. Did it not occur to you that cubes do not like a massive substrate? ... Smaller subs naturally have a much better chance at achieving a high BE.
How does that work in terms of total water availability? And even when I did equal sized, one enriched one not, the enriched outperformed the plain.
So what you’re saying is that enriched paper will grow cubes at tiny scales better than unenriched can at bigger scales? This is based off your findings from a single clone which you confirm may or may not be expressing a specific preference (I highly doubt it’s as quick to isolate media specific preferences as you propose since my best clones grew on potatoes and were monsters in coir)? I guess based on my experience I’ll just stick with coir for anything larger than a novelty and if people want to grow in enriched paper it’s their business. I feel like every piece of information you’ve uncovered is largely useless for people who want to grow actual mushrooms.
If you can pull a respectable yield out of paper I’d love to see it. I like to see results before I take someone’s word for something. You haven’t provided jack and until you do it’s all just a bunch of hot air.
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TedsDead



Registered: 01/03/17
Posts: 4,998
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Mycolorado]
#26988927 - 10/16/20 05:46 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mycolorado said: Yeah, I wasn’t bashing you at all. I too have used it from local breweries. My thinking is that as it’s typically totally busted and is such a starchy mess that it would be better as a sup as opposed to a spawn.
Might be good in sawdust bags for gourmets. I have dried, ground, and baked with it tho. Pretty good. U have to cut it with normal flour tho
-------------------- weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed... -the fabulous furry freak bros If you can buy it, you can burn it!
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25947396#25947396
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Mycolorado
Hobbyist


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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: TedsDead]
#26988930 - 10/16/20 05:46 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Definitely!
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