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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
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Quote:
alaskappalachian said:
Quote:
Munchauzen said: another stoned idea... anyone ever spawn agar pucks? just the agar into some coir.
Tried three times and the two coir experiments stalled and the most growth I got was in manured soil but it never fruited after it colonized. Killed my appetite to try again...
Wont work without the added nutrients, coir is basically a type of wood, as a substrate. Cellulose is slow to react to enzymes, its a structural carbohydrate. In order to get good decay of the coir, the Cubensis needs a more viable carbon source to produce cellulases, and nutrients to grow-fruit.
The manure version colonized because manure is rich in nitrogen, so on, and contains decayed carbon. There is also the pH, Cubensis enzymes do best on a neutral to basic pH (6.5 - 9).
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I've managed to adapt Cubensis to decay plant phenols (lignin, tannin, etc) and produce white rot. But I have never managed to get colonization without taking steps with cellulose.
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I've only ever tried paper pellets enriched (WL-Tek) and brown rice.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather]
#26963562 - 10/01/20 10:04 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ferather said:
Quote:
alaskappalachian said:
Quote:
Munchauzen said: another stoned idea... anyone ever spawn agar pucks? just the agar into some coir.
Tried three times and the two coir experiments stalled and the most growth I got was in manured soil but it never fruited after it colonized. Killed my appetite to try again...
Wont work without the added nutrients, coir is basically a type of wood, as a substrate. Cellulose is slow to react to enzymes, its a structural carbohydrate. In order to get good decay of the coir, the Cubensis needs a more viable carbon source to produce cellulases, and nutrients to grow-fruit.
The manure version colonized because manure is rich in nitrogen, so on, and contains decayed carbon. There is also the pH, Cubensis enzymes do best on a neutral to basic pH (6.5 - 9).
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I've managed to adapt Cubensis to decay plant phenols (lignin, tannin, etc) and produce white rot. But I have never managed to get colonization without taking steps with cellulose.
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I've only ever tried paper pellets enriched (WL-Tek) and brown rice.

However when we spawn cubes to bulk we aren’t looking for anymore nutes, the colony has loads of stored energy and nutrients in the grain spawn, we just want water when we spawn to bulk.
As an agar substitute or sole nutrient source it indeed would suffer as there is no stored energy or nutrition for the emergent colony to rely on. I bet you could spawn to it just fine similar to how people used to spawn to plain verm back when the rez effect tek was popular.
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Pastywhyte]
#26963679 - 10/01/20 11:14 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm in the habit of not using copious amounts of spawn, for wood-lovers its bad practice. Secondly, to access the compliment of nutrients in grain, it must be fully decayed to nothing. You will find a base pH and calcium increases the decay rate of starch and grain, so if you take that route you still need the CaCO3 (calcium carbonate).
"Most of the amylases are metalloenzymes, which require calcium ions (Ca2+) for their activity, structural integrity and stability" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3768869/
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather]
#26963702 - 10/01/20 11:30 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Are cubes woodlovers?
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Pastywhyte]
#26963743 - 10/01/20 12:10 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Does this Cubensis sample look potent? The blobs are brown rice decaying to nothing.

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Seriously though, I have to use 50% grain because they are not wood-lovers? What's wrong with optimizing substrate nutrients and pH?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coprophilous_fungi
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You do know that coco coir is a woody material, and is essentially another wood type in all. Don't make me start a discussion on ammoniacal and ureic nitrogen, and manure.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather]
#26963755 - 10/01/20 12:17 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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They look like they will be goop soon regardless. Also I’ll answer my own question, cubes are not wood lovers. We don’t use coir for its lignin content, we use it for its water retention. The fact that it has nutrition isn’t important for the purpose of most bulk growers. Spawn is also not hard to make, not sure why we need to ration it. I’m rocking a 1:4 and it’s doing me just fine. It’s not like the reasons gourmet species need lower spawn ratios even apply to us.
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Josex
#cheat_code


Registered: 11/13/15
Posts: 8,995
Loc:
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather]
#26963763 - 10/01/20 12:23 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ferather said: Does this Cubensis sample look potent? The blobs are brown rice decaying to nothing.

I'd say those look like some 
I don't know if you're being serious here (my guess is yes) but you can't possibly know how potent a shroom is just by looking at it. I've eaten potent af shrooms that didn't almost blue at all.
You've been around enough to know that. I can't fathom what you're trying to archieve with your experiments. Most of us are way dumb to experiment that much and would rather grow them shrooms.
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gizmodo
Woodland Creature




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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Josex]
#26963769 - 10/01/20 12:25 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I just wanted to say shroomery is pretty great. Being able to come by here and pick off some solid insightful information is always a joy. This place is loaded with hidden gems.
-------------------- One must be mindful to maintain their balance on the slippery earth. Bod's Comprehensive Agar Resource Gizmodo's Market Stall Say No To Grow Kits
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Munchauzen


Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 14,342
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Pastywhyte]
#26963776 - 10/01/20 12:27 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Are cubes woodlovers?
No. They are a coprophilous species, meaning they love dung.
Also they are secondary decomposers meaning they prefer the matter to already be somewhat broken down, hence why they love poo.
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Munchauzen


Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 14,342
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Munchauzen]
#26963785 - 10/01/20 12:31 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ok looks like I'm gonna have to satisfy my own curiousity and will cut up and mix some coir to my plates today. Just gonna leave em in the containers and see what happens.
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Pastywhyte]
#26963804 - 10/01/20 12:40 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Do you have conclusive proof that Cubensis does not utilize the carbon portion (cellulose) of coco-coir, and that vermiculite instead yields just as much? Your also talking like I'm trying to replace your chosen method, which is a personal angle you have chosen, self provoked.
You do know a sponsors Boomr Bag, grows Cubensis and Wood lovers with high yield right? It's manure based and doesn't require high spawn ratios.
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I have selected my chosen method for a few reasons, firstly paper pellets hold plenty of water, and don't contaminate easily at all (phenols removed). I can add soluble nutrients directly (WL-Tek), and maintain its almost 0% contamination chances, its massively cheaper than grain.
Producing large amounts of spawn, is more work and a constant risk, compared to low spawn ratios and WL-Tek.
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tryptkaloids
Learner



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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Munchauzen]
#26963809 - 10/01/20 12:43 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I have some wide and short pp5 containers I've been meaning to make no pours in adding coir to the top after it colonizes.
I also had the thought to g2g some uncolonized spawn into it, letting it colonize then adding a top layer of coir
-------------------- "Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage Flowchart for Recommended plan of action. Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms Use the Damn search engine After you know what you're doing, take a break Pick a book, Make some chips! Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Josex]
#26963833 - 10/01/20 01:06 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Josex said: I don't know if you're being serious here (my guess is yes) but you can't possibly know how potent a shroom is just by looking at it:
Out of curiosity, do you think the mushroom should contain more, or stain more? The blue-black is oxidation of psilocybin to psilocin. If the mushroom contained very little, there would be very little blue-black, in this case it's oozing with psilocybin.
Quote:
Josex said: I've eaten potent af shrooms that didn't almost blue at all.
I've eaten mushrooms when hungry, and when well fed, when tired and when energized, and got different potencies. There are other psychoactive materials magic mushrooms produce, and can be as potent as psilocybin.
Baeocystin: [C11]--[H15]--[N2]--[O4]--[P] Norbaeocystin: [C10]--[H13]--[N2]--[O4]--[P]
Psilocybin: [C12]--[H17]--[N2]--[O4]--[P] Psilocin: [C12]--[H16]--[N2]--[O]
Serotonin: [C10]--[H12]--[N2]--[O]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybe_cubensis
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smalltalk_canceled
Babnik


Registered: 07/13/20
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather] 1
#26963843 - 10/01/20 01:11 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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and norpsilocin as well i think
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Quote:
smalltalk_canceled said: and norpsilocin as well i think
I knew there was another one but couldn't remember, thank you.
https://psychedelicreview.com/norpsilocin-a-newly-discovered-psilocybin-derivative/
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather]
#26963936 - 10/01/20 01:55 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ferather said: Do you have conclusive proof that Cubensis does not utilize the carbon portion (cellulose) of coco-coir, and that vermiculite instead yields just as much?
No and that’s not really what I was saying. But I’ve done a few side by sides and any differences were negligible. If I decide to do something with more control I’ll be sure to post it here. Anyways what I was trying to say is that for most growers here, making spawn is easy and if they wanted a substitute for coir that paper product would likely work well without them changing their processes that much. See most of us want to grow as much fruit with as little dicking around as possible.
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A.k.a
Stranger



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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Pastywhyte]
#26963948 - 10/01/20 02:01 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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C10 did coir only grows and got a couple sickly little mushrooms so it seems like they get some negligible amount of nutrients from it.
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LAGM2020     
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Yeetusdeetus


Registered: 11/23/19
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: A.k.a]
#26963969 - 10/01/20 02:13 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Maybe you’d get better results with coir only if you hydrated it with grainwater lol
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Mycolorado
Hobbyist


Registered: 07/23/16
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Loc: Interdimensional Bootcamp
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: A.k.a]
#26963971 - 10/01/20 02:13 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I believe coconut is closer to grass than actual wood bearing trees, though I could be mistaken.
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Munchauzen


Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 14,342
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Mycolorado]
#26964104 - 10/01/20 03:15 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mycolorado said: I believe coconut is closer to grass than actual wood bearing trees, though I could be mistaken.
Correct! Palms are monocots, which includes grasses and grass like plants.
Trees like locusts or oaks are eudicots, which contains fruit trees, canopy shade trees, and ornamental trees.
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