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junk_f00d


Registered: 12/04/15
Posts: 933
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: TedsDead]
#26962548 - 09/30/20 05:59 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Is sterilizing casing (standard peat-lime-verm-gypsum) still considered a no-no? I don't understand why, because everyone _really_ stresses that casing should be 'non-nutritious', yet there seems to be full agreeance that a sterilized casing is more likely to contaminate. I'm asking because I'd rather just sterilize a big batch at once and keep it for when I need it.
Edit: also, are we going back to calling to coir/verm topdressing at spawning a 'casing'? I just skimmed filthyknees thread and I'm now I'm not sure. I always topdress the grain with a thick layer of coir, but I only refer to casing as the peat-lime-verm-gypsum mix that RR recommends for like PE or whatever.
Edited by junk_f00d (09/30/20 06:07 PM)
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TedsDead



Registered: 01/03/17
Posts: 4,998
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: junk_f00d]
#26962627 - 09/30/20 06:54 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Non nutritious doesnt mean no microbes. You dont want the myc to fully colonize it hence non nutritious... if you sterilize it your killing off bebinficial microbe populations that help fight off contams (trich ect...)
I call that a "top layer" not always necessary but they can be helpful
-------------------- weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed... -the fabulous furry freak bros If you can buy it, you can burn it!
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25947396#25947396
Edited by TedsDead (09/30/20 06:55 PM)
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sh4d0ws
LSx



Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 12,086
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: junk_f00d]
#26962668 - 09/30/20 07:17 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm over 50 tubs now of non-pasteurized, non-sterilized, straight out of the bag jiffy mix used for casing
Not a single tub has contaminated 
Unless I run into some major issues I'll probably just continue to use this stuff straight out of the bag. I believe it is composted to a degree though so I'm not sure how things would be if you are mixing the casing up yourself. But even then people just pasteurize, sterilizing will kill off the friendly microbes as Ted mentioned
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TedsDead



Registered: 01/03/17
Posts: 4,998
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: sh4d0ws]
#26962685 - 09/30/20 07:26 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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A true compost is pasteurized hence how composting works. Ive never tried jiffy mix but it seems great!
-------------------- weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed... -the fabulous furry freak bros If you can buy it, you can burn it!
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25947396#25947396
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Gan
Wielder of Narya



Registered: 08/26/19
Posts: 927
Loc: Valinor
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: TedsDead]
#26962737 - 09/30/20 07:50 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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That's interesting because I hear more and more people having success with jiffy right out the bag. I imagine you just hydrate to field capacity and then use it?
I've never used it but I wanna try a casing on some APE tubs I'm about to spawn to compare them to a few top layer only tubs
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tryptkaloids
Learner



Registered: 02/08/15
Posts: 12,641
Loc: Exact Center
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: TedsDead]
#26962741 - 09/30/20 07:50 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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so you're saying I should pasteurize my compost before I use it?
-------------------- "Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage Flowchart for Recommended plan of action. Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms Use the Damn search engine After you know what you're doing, take a break Pick a book, Make some chips! Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
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junk_f00d


Registered: 12/04/15
Posts: 933
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: TedsDead]
#26962796 - 09/30/20 08:21 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
TedsDead said: Non nutritious doesnt mean no microbes. You dont want the myc to fully colonize it hence non nutritious... if you sterilize it your killing off bebinficial microbe populations that help fight off contams (trich ect...)
I call that a "top layer" not always necessary but they can be helpful
Yeah but the microbes (and contaminants, in their absence) need nutrients, so I would be inclined to assume non-nutritious is at least very strongly correlated with no microbes and difficulty contaminating, but I just don't get it and digging up old threads was a bit inconclusive imo.
I'll try sterilizing a few next time around and just let them sit in my fruiting room for a month or two and see what happens. I hate having to pastuerizing those little stinkers just for a couple PE tubs at a time, would much rather cook a whole batch and just put em in the closet until I need them.
Edited by junk_f00d (09/30/20 08:22 PM)
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Psicomb



Registered: 01/13/18
Posts: 4,636
Loc: the womb
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: sh4d0ws]
#26962806 - 09/30/20 08:26 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I have used jiffy out the bag with success, that's the way I use it currently, but I have noticed that I will sometimes get contams on my casing layer right after first flush. It's always a bluish gray wispy mold, slow growing too. I'll take photos the next time I see it. I dont remember that happening with jiffy casings I've pasteurized myself..
But with that said, PE (not APE tho) has always been a one flush and toss thing for me so it isnt that problematic for me.
Others seem to have really solid success, like you shadows
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When we constantly pull things apart trying to see how it works, we may end up with only an understanding of how to destroy something - nick sand
Edited by Psicomb (09/30/20 08:27 PM)
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junk_f00d


Registered: 12/04/15
Posts: 933
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Psicomb]
#26962876 - 09/30/20 09:02 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Psicomvb said: I have used jiffy out the bag with success, that's the way I use it currently, but I have noticed that I will sometimes get contams on my casing layer right after first flush. It's always a bluish gray wispy mold, slow growing too. I'll take photos the next time I see it. I dont remember that happening with jiffy casings I've pasteurized myself..
But with that said, PE (not APE tho) has always been a one flush and toss thing for me so it isnt that problematic for me.
Others seem to have really solid success, like you shadows
Ideally I could store hydrated so I could just prep a bunch at once. I'd love any method that accomplishes a bulk prep of peat-lime-verm-gypsum for longish term storage without relying on a fridge or anything.
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TedsDead



Registered: 01/03/17
Posts: 4,998
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: junk_f00d]
#26962888 - 09/30/20 09:11 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I believe that its non nutritious for myc and plants. Im not 100% sure what microbes are in it or what their nutritional needs are.
Ive stored hydrated pasteurized(not sterilized) peat casing for quite sometime with great results. At least a couple months.
-------------------- weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed... -the fabulous furry freak bros If you can buy it, you can burn it!
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25947396#25947396
Edited by TedsDead (09/30/20 09:13 PM)
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junk_f00d


Registered: 12/04/15
Posts: 933
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: TedsDead]
#26962892 - 09/30/20 09:16 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
TedsDead said: I believe that its non nutritious for myc and plants. Im not 100% sure what microbes are in it or what their nutritional needs are.
Ive stored hydrated peat casing for quite sometime with great results. At least a couple months.
Ah, that makes sense. Non-nutritious to myc but nutritious to contams.
You left it in the fridge, or just sitting around? I've only tried using old stuff sitting at room temp once but the tub contam'd. Probably just coincendce and I had bad spawn, but I haven't tried it since.
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Munchauzen


Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 14,342
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: junk_f00d]
#26962893 - 09/30/20 09:17 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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another stoned idea... anyone ever spawn agar pucks? just the agar into some coir.
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tryptkaloids
Learner



Registered: 02/08/15
Posts: 12,641
Loc: Exact Center
Last seen: 3 days, 9 hours
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Munchauzen]
#26962925 - 09/30/20 09:36 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I've definitely thought about it
-------------------- "Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage Flowchart for Recommended plan of action. Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms Use the Damn search engine After you know what you're doing, take a break Pick a book, Make some chips! Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
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TedsDead



Registered: 01/03/17
Posts: 4,998
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: tryptkaloids]
#26962937 - 09/30/20 09:41 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I kept them on the shelf it spawn bags with twist ties.
Lol! Havent tried it but I often find the puck in the grain when mixing tubs. Kinda fun
-------------------- weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed... -the fabulous furry freak bros If you can buy it, you can burn it!
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25947396#25947396
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alaskappalachian
Entitiologist

Registered: 10/22/19
Posts: 1,674
Loc: The 49th Dimension
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Munchauzen]
#26962950 - 09/30/20 09:49 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Munchauzen said: another stoned idea... anyone ever spawn agar pucks? just the agar into some coir.
Tried three times and the two coir experiments stalled and the most growth I got was in manured soil but it never fruited after it colonized. Killed my appetite to try again...
-------------------- "First we build the tools, then they build us." THE 49th MYCOJOURNAL: Exotics, Auroras, and Entities
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TedsDead



Registered: 01/03/17
Posts: 4,998
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Maybe if while using pasty plates u dislodge the puck so that air gets underneath and allows the bottom to colonize? I imagine that the uncolonized bottom is a big vector for contams
-------------------- weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed... -the fabulous furry freak bros If you can buy it, you can burn it!
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25947396#25947396
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junk_f00d


Registered: 12/04/15
Posts: 933
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Munchauzen]
#26963026 - 09/30/20 10:23 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Munchauzen said: another stoned idea... anyone ever spawn agar pucks? just the agar into some coir.
I've seen open plate fruiting done in a sab to determine what species something was
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Yeetusdeetus


Registered: 11/23/19
Posts: 1,242
Last seen: 4 hours, 8 minutes
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather]
#26963080 - 09/30/20 11:04 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ferather said: If you cant find coir, try chemical free, no additive paper pellets.

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Here I am making WL-Tek with added tea (illustration).


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Paper pellets (no tea), have a lower chance to contaminate (phenols removed, e.g. lignin), than wood or coir, and has a good pH (7+). There's no sugar or starch, and since the phenols are removed, it's mostly all complex cellulose as carbon.
Note: Mold, and other lignicolous fungi can germinate utilizing plant phenols.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid-free_paper
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https://imgur.com/a/8jngxe8
Is there a reason more people don’t do this? Is it just not as good with retaining water?
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Munchauzen]
#26963083 - 09/30/20 11:10 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Munchauzen said: another stoned idea... anyone ever spawn agar pucks? just the agar into some coir.
I considered it. Was around the same time I was growing cubes on bath towels.
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roarkell
The Roar Master!



Registered: 08/29/19
Posts: 2,223
Loc: Southern WI
Last seen: 6 months, 22 days
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Yeetusdeetus]
#26963256 - 10/01/20 04:03 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yeetusdeetus said:
Quote:
Ferather said: If you cant find coir, try chemical free, no additive paper pellets.

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Here I am making WL-Tek with added tea (illustration).


====
Paper pellets (no tea), have a lower chance to contaminate (phenols removed, e.g. lignin), than wood or coir, and has a good pH (7+). There's no sugar or starch, and since the phenols are removed, it's mostly all complex cellulose as carbon.
Note: Mold, and other lignicolous fungi can germinate utilizing plant phenols.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid-free_paper
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https://imgur.com/a/8jngxe8
Is there a reason more people don’t do this? Is it just not as good with retaining water?
I second this... seem like it would be easier to find than coir for some... id like to find some just to try it out...
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