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Invisiblesandman420
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: A.k.a]
    #26847856 - 07/27/20 12:43 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I just see that little beady yellow metabolites on those spawn bags and makes me lean towards mycoparasite.

Which I know pastywhyte is going to say i always say everyone has one but in this case I would really lean that way.


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OfflineCamera93
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Sherlock Shrooms]
    #26847863 - 07/27/20 12:45 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

You keep talking about blanks being clean
I suggest next time you go to spawn your bags/jars to take a colonized grain and put it on a blank dish to see how it plays out

Beautiful hood :rockon:


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All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I’m fine.

Whatever you decide won’t really impact our survival
Close your eyes, and do the best that you can



Edited by Camera93 (07/27/20 12:46 PM)


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OfflineSherlock Shrooms
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Sherlock Shrooms]
    #26847869 - 07/27/20 12:51 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I bought a fogger and unloaded 2 gallons of decon 30 a solution designed for mold remediation across my entire house, even my darn garage, and 2 seperate times in my grow room. I am surrounded by open fields the sun dries up everything around my house. It's smoking hot here too. Not in my spawn and fruiting room though, I use an AC in there and keep it between 68 to 70 all the time. I applied the decon 30 quite generously. I have used very high spawn counts in the past hoping that would right this wrong like 2 spawn to 1 sub ratios but that didn't help at all. Oh ok you're suggesting I take a colonized grain from the spawn and drop it on agar at full colonization of the bag or jar and see what it does, I'll do that next time. The mycoparasite thing sounds right. What the hell do I do about it as it keeps appearing on every single culture? I'm afraid to get more potent chemicals to bomb my house with as I don't want to kill my family..


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"When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned, Nor shall the flame scorch you."


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OfflineSherlock Shrooms
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Sherlock Shrooms]
    #26847890 - 07/27/20 01:04 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I steam pastuerized the CVG in bags in a large 22 gallon crawfish cooker. 1 tub worth of sub and casing per bag folded over at the top and clamped down with binder clips. I had the tubs already cleaned out with micropore tape on them and after the substrate temps were between 140 and 150 for an hour I carefully and quickly unloaded the bags from the cooker with gloves on. I put 1 bag into 1 tub and let them cool in there. Then when I went to load the tubs I did it directly in front of the flow hood using gloves and such. My spawn bags and jars colonize inside of other cleaned out tubs to keep them clean and nearly spore free. This was after I bombed the shizz out of my entire house too. What the hell can I do to get away from this mycoparasite if that's what it is? I even do Bod's double printing technique to let contaminant spores drop off on the first print getting a near asceptic second print..


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"When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned, Nor shall the flame scorch you."


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InvisibleSrirachi
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Sherlock Shrooms]
    #26847961 - 07/27/20 01:33 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

A couple thoughts that may or may not be helpful to you-

You run the temps on your jars a little higher and for a little longer than I do, and that will convert starches to sugars, which invites contaminate organisms. I won't even address anyone who disagrees, to each their own, but this is real. Stamets says so too btw, but I have seen in my own efforts how overheating grains and LCs hinders performance.

If you want a good deep penetration try running a lower PSI for a longer time. I feel like this was central to recovering from my massive washouts years ago that took me completely out of this for a year because I was just so frustrated.

Another thing I caught myself doing was running my sealer too hot. It makes very, very tiny pinholes around the seal when you start to, but do not completely, melt through the bag. I switched to a 5mm sealer thinking the 2mm was too weak, but now I believe the actual positive change was not the width of the seal, but the fact that I dialed the heat down because I trusted the 5mm seal. I'm talking about bags that still held air like they were sealed perfectly when you grabbed them, but I started noticing on old bags how overheating the seal was causing weak spots and even micro-holes.

My money is on the PC temps though. Some people will get it hotter and it'll be fine, but grains vary by type and even by region. I'd drop down to running quarts at 15PSI for 2 hours, maybe, on one run, and see what happens.

One last thought that is probably NOT it, but what the hell, nothing about this is normal... Could the wood of your flowhood's cabinet be holding a live mold culture? Maybe seal it with a good marine varnish?


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Srirachi]
    #26848003 - 07/27/20 01:50 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Call me ignorant but if you got a hood isnt contamination like 99.99999% caused directly by technique? Hands in front of sterile air flow, dirty inoculate ect..

Like with a sab maybe you catch a draft or dont spray(even tho I dont) cat jumps on the box while working, family members opening doors while you work ect..

If his hood was defective his entire efforts would explode in mold immediately. Since molds coming in before pinning/second flush and based on the pics I'd say his problem is in his agar/inoculate. No where else.


Edited by mushboy (07/27/20 01:54 PM)


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OfflineSherlock Shrooms
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Srirachi]
    #26848106 - 07/27/20 02:29 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Srirachi said:
A couple thoughts that may or may not be helpful to you-

You run the temps on your jars a little higher and for a little longer than I do, and that will convert starches to sugars, which invites contaminate organisms. I won't even address anyone who disagrees, to each their own, but this is real. Stamets says so too btw, but I have seen in my own efforts how overheating grains and LCs hinders performance.

If you want a good deep penetration try running a lower PSI for a longer time. I feel like this was central to recovering from my massive washouts years ago that took me completely out of this for a year because I was just so frustrated.

Another thing I caught myself doing was running my sealer too hot. It makes very, very tiny pinholes around the seal when you start to, but do not completely, melt through the bag. I switched to a 5mm sealer thinking the 2mm was too weak, but now I believe the actual positive change was not the width of the seal, but the fact that I dialed the heat down because I trusted the 5mm seal. I'm talking about bags that still held air like they were sealed perfectly when you grabbed them, but I started noticing on old bags how overheating the seal was causing weak spots and even micro-holes.

My money is on the PC temps though. Some people will get it hotter and it'll be fine, but grains vary by type and even by region. I'd drop down to running quarts at 15PSI for 2 hours, maybe, on one run, and see what happens.

One last thought that is probably NOT it, but what the hell, nothing about this is normal... Could the wood of your flowhood's cabinet be holding a live mold culture? Maybe seal it with a good marine varnish?



That's a really brilliant idea about the excessive heat creating more available sugars for contaminant cultures. Funny that in the beginning I had normal rockers that kept the PC at 15 psi and I never ran the PC so long. And when I didn't get some strange contam my tubs would go 4 and 5 flushes no problem. Now I never make it past the second flush. I did seal the wood in my flow hood with several coats of polyurethane however it was a low gloss one so I've been thinking about getting some high gloss stuff and doing several coats of that. Regardless though I work right in front of the filter so it's probably not that. I'll also pay attention to the bag sealer. I inspect the seal very closely looking for those tiny holes you speak about and haven't seen any. If I turn the heat down any lower it doesn't heat it enough to seal the gussets together so I think it's at the right temp. Besides switching from jars to bags hasn't made this problem any worse or better. Thanks for the thoughtful advice!


--------------------
"When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned, Nor shall the flame scorch you."


Edited by Sherlock Shrooms (07/27/20 02:30 PM)


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Invisiblesandman420
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy]
    #26848107 - 07/27/20 02:31 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Are you growing from your own prints or ordering them? You could just simply have a contaminated bunch of prints you are working on. Mycoparasites whatever it may or may not be one, if it was they can contaminate the prints. That's kinda their thing.


If you did have something like this you would want to order fresh prints from like 2 other fresh new sources and start fresh agar plates.

There is also chemical fungicide agar but....


--------------------
- Sandbag Tek - How To Sterilize Spawn Bags - All About Static Pressure / Pressure Drop for DIY Flow Hoods - Sandman's LC Tek-

Marijuanaut escapes earth to cultivate - Grow-room is church temple of the new stoner breed


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OfflineSherlock Shrooms
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy]
    #26848131 - 07/27/20 02:42 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

mushboy said:
Call me ignorant but if you got a hood isnt contamination like 99.99999% caused directly by technique? Hands in front of sterile air flow, dirty inoculate ect..

Like with a sab maybe you catch a draft or dont spray(even tho I dont) cat jumps on the box while working, family members opening doors while you work ect..

If his hood was defective his entire efforts would explode in mold immediately. Since molds coming in before pinning/second flush and based on the pics I'd say his problem is in his agar/inoculate. No where else.




Mushboy I'd love for that to be the case because then all I'd have to do is brush up on my sterile technique. And I know this is the conventional wisdom that almost everyone says in these situations. However since having these problems and repeating these process thousands of times I am 99.99% sure I can't be anymore careful with my sterile work. I mean really I handle the stuff like it's some kind of biological warfare and if I slipped all of mankind would be wiped out or something. The amount of alcohol I go through is silly, and I move incredibly slow and methodically visualizing each move before I make it like some kind of chess match with fatal consequences. I know you don't see me post much around here but I've studied so much on this site and have made thousands upon thousands of plates and jars and have been traumatized by the epic amounts of consistent losses I've suffered over the past 2 years. At this point hearing that I'm not moving my hands correctly doesn't feel very helpful or thoughtful. No disrespect man I know you've got a lot of experience. Isn't it strange that it's never a different contaminant? Seriously.. It's always the same exact type of green at around the same time in the grow cycle regardless of which variety I grow. I never see it in a plate or in a jar or bag once, no exceptions. If my technique was off then surely at some point I'd see rhizopus pop up, or cobweb, or even something green inside of a jar like I used to all the time when I started growing.


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OfflineSherlock Shrooms
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: sandman420]
    #26848139 - 07/27/20 02:50 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

sandman420 said:
Are you growing from your own prints or ordering them? You could just simply have a contaminated bunch of prints you are working on. Mycoparasites whatever it may or may not be one, if it was they can contaminate the prints. That's kinda their thing.


If you did have something like this you would want to order fresh prints from like 2 other fresh new sources and start fresh agar plates.

There is also chemical fungicide agar but....




I've been growing from my own prints for the past few years. I use Bod's double printing technique and get what seem to be nearly asceptic prints on the second print which is all I use.. I get bugged out ordering prints from places as I don't wish to get watched. Had a friend try ordering some several months ago but they were bunk prints. One was so old and dried up I couldn't get it to grow, another was covered in mold and streaking it didn't even help, and another was such a pathetically small fruiting variety that I get more out of growing my current varieties and throwing out 50% or more of everything I do, and the rest were just truffles. Disappointing. You think I should find a better source and get prints from outside my home as the same parasitic spore may be finding its way onto all my prints?? That would be fucked!


--------------------
"When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned, Nor shall the flame scorch you."


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OfflineSherlock Shrooms
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Sherlock Shrooms]
    #26848143 - 07/27/20 02:52 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

And what's up with chemical fungicide agar? Is there some kind of agar that kills only certain types of fungi or something?


--------------------
"When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned, Nor shall the flame scorch you."


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Sherlock Shrooms] * 1
    #26848150 - 07/27/20 02:53 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Post pics of your cultures(if you havent already)

Let's see em:popcorn:


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Offlineicetech
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Sherlock Shrooms]
    #26848149 - 07/27/20 02:53 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Hadn't heard of bods double prints, will check that out..

And yeah, i'm a bit paranoid ordering spores. trying to find some pan cyans right now from someone i can trust:)


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Invisiblenatedawgnow
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Sherlock Shrooms]
    #26848152 - 07/27/20 02:56 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Possibly in the culture itself, deeply intertwined.

You say it is across multiple varieties, where do you get your sub and have you
tried switching up substrates?

To ensure that it isnt your spawn, take a jar and case it with coir.
Or take the jar, break it up into a shoebox without sub and case it with coir.

If a coir cased jar or spawn contams it's almost definitely your spawn and my
money would be bet on intertwined contam.

Have you ever done blank transfers? You said you've let stuff sit open to verify
your hoods integrity, bjt have you done a transfer from a blank petri to a
blank jar to make sure nothing hitched a ride? I do this every 6 months or so


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OfflineSherlock Shrooms
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: natedawgnow]
    #26848184 - 07/27/20 03:14 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

natedawgnow said:
Possibly in the culture itself, deeply intertwined.

You say it is across multiple varieties, where do you get your sub and have you
tried switching up substrates?

To ensure that it isnt your spawn, take a jar and case it with coir.
Or take the jar, break it up into a shoebox without sub and case it with coir.

If a coir cased jar or spawn contams it's almost definitely your spawn and my
money would be bet on intertwined contam.

Have you ever done blank transfers? You said you've let stuff sit open to verify
your hoods integrity, bjt have you done a transfer from a blank petri to a
blank jar to make sure nothing hitched a ride? I do this every 6 months or so




Hi Nate. Yes I've done blank/ghost transfers with plates and also jars and haven't seen any of those contam. I even held the scalpel up in front of different parts of my filter for minutes at a time before I did the blank transfer into agar and still no contams. I'll do it again though soon to be sure.

I'll try casing a jar and just breaking up a jar of spawn into a shoebox with no sub, casing it and seeing what happens. I haven't tried that. I did forget about a few colonized jars that I just found. they are like 4 or 6 months old and shrunk and exploded with fruits inside the jar but no contams. What you're suggesting though would allow a meshed in contam to sporulate more readily though as they often need air so I'll try that out.

I get coir from different places and I thought I may have been getting some bad coir so I switched brands from grow it, to zoo med, to roots organic, to black gold and get all the same results. Sometimes I include gypsum and verm and other times I don't but it's always the same outcome. I used to do bucket tek while using heat proof gloves and getting in there and breaking up all the small chunks in a cooler while it was piping hot to ensure thorough killing of all potential mold spores. That didn't help so now I have been loading the hydrated and broken up coir into large spawn bags and steam pasteurizing it in a big 22 gallon crawfish cooker, that didn't change a thing either...

I thought for a while it was a meshed in contam on my cultures but I do bod's double print technique and collect new prints from different varieties and start them and keep seeing the same exact contam. Unless sandman is right and there is some pervasive parasitic contam that is getting onto all my prints and therefore infused into all of my cultures. That would be fucked. Anybody got some prints of a good producing variety I could try out?


--------------------
"When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned, Nor shall the flame scorch you."


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OfflineSherlock Shrooms
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Sherlock Shrooms]
    #26848204 - 07/27/20 03:23 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Mushboy here are some pics of my agar



I have to wait for my girlfriend to wake up to take pics of the grain spawn because her camera is fancy and I have no idea how to use it :lol: I'll definitely post them in a few hours though..


--------------------
"When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned, Nor shall the flame scorch you."


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Sherlock Shrooms]
    #26848207 - 07/27/20 03:26 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

:strokebeard2:


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OfflineCrashTest
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Sherlock Shrooms] * 1
    #26848210 - 07/27/20 03:27 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Check out this jar, it was just an experiment, but looking successful so far



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:mushroom2: this account is automated, any posts related to activities or advice thereof are strictly opinions from numerous online sites and are for informational purposes only - CrashTest2020:mushroom2:



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OfflineSherlock Shrooms
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Sherlock Shrooms]
    #26848211 - 07/27/20 03:28 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

In the first pic on the right half of the plate at around 11 oclock I see the little sprouts that indicate bacteria according to madseason's contam thread but in all those pics thats the only thing I can see that's a bit off. I have some new stuff from spore that is like 4 transfers away I'll take pics of later too and post that..

Those pics are from a few weeks ago or so since I can't take any at the moment. But that's what all my stuff looks like


--------------------
"When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned, Nor shall the flame scorch you."


Edited by Sherlock Shrooms (07/27/20 03:30 PM)


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Invisiblec10h12n2o
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Sherlock Shrooms]
    #26848216 - 07/27/20 03:31 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Sherlock Shrooms said:
crackheadedly sterile with everything




Lol thats a new one to me, you must have a different breed of local crackheads than i am used to


--------------------

C10's Agar Guide + Tips and Tricks | c10's Flow Hood Build Guide


"Partial knowledge is more triumphant than complete knowledge; it takes things to be simpler than they are, and so makes its theory more popular and convincing."

"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies"
― Friedrich Nietzsche


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