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Munchauzen


Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 14,342
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Mateja] 2
#26613813 - 04/19/20 08:25 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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If I leave my hydrated coir in my mixing tub long enough, it grows pin mold.
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sh4d0ws
LSx


Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 12,086
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: MLPismyOPSEC]
#26613902 - 04/19/20 09:15 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
MLPismyOPSEC said:
Quote:
Ovoidhunter said: Can I shake my jars to hard and too much? I shook some jars for probably a good 5 minutes thinking it would distribute grains better. Did I actually just damage the mycelium and stunt growth?
Short answer no. But taking a while to break up is a sign of contamination. Good spawn breaks up really fast. I've started to leave a stopwatch running, if it takes more than 3 minutes to break up, it's a little bacterial. If it takes more than 5 minutes, it's pretty sketchy.
I have noticed some correlation between bacterial spawn being slightly harder to break up, but trying to accurately gauge that seems near impossible, and you don't know the force you are applying each time you hit the jar. Still I think it is true that really bacterial spawn can be harder to break up sometimes.
@Mateah
What if the mycelium grows to the top of the coir, allowing it to wick in contaminates? If the coir isn't fully colonized it might work but if even a strand of mycelium grows up to the top of the coir, it could potentially wick in some contaminate I would think. I'm jsut thinking out loud here I got no idea but it seems possible.
Did you try any without hydrated coir?
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Mateja


Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: sh4d0ws]
#26614001 - 04/19/20 10:16 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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No, all cakes are topped off with hydrated coir in the same manner, about 5mm thick layer. The last few BRF grows i didn't even use verm to top it off instead just the BRF mix inside the jars and I didn't notice any difference from having a verm layer. It expensive, and I hate it when it trickles down the sides of the jar and messes up visibility.
Quote:
sh4d0ws said: What if the mycelium grows to the top of the coir, allowing it to wick in contaminates? If the coir isn't fully colonized it might work but if even a strand of mycelium grows up to the top of the coir, it could potentially wick in some contaminate I would think.
Assumin that spores could only possibly land in one of the 4 inoculation spots, having myc colonize the substrate from the lower/mid level of the sub and three dimensionally, as the colony reaches the top of the sub and starts to grip the coir on top then by then any spore wicked downwards should meet only already colonized sub below, even if some parts of the upper BRF mix isn't fully colonized and a spore is somehow wicked down that spore still has slim chances of germinating in time before the area gets reached by myc. I'm also just thinking from the top of my head and visualizing possible events.. Also after having left several 80mm agar plates with the lid off for 20min inside the SAB while entering, exiting and passing by the SAB and grow room several times during those 20 min and still nothing germinated on any of the plates even after 60days. I feel there is a one in thousand chance that a spore would be able to find its way into a needle sized hole during those 10 sec it takes for me to inoculate a cake. (I think mushboy went even much longer with exposed petris in a similar test with also no growth of any kind) I'm in no way waving off this risk were discussing I'm just expressing my views so far, I've done many cakes and can not remember one of them contaminating visibly with the epicenter being below an inoculation point.
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
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Mateja


Registered: 07/14/16
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Munchauzen]
#26614021 - 04/19/20 10:30 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Munchauzen said: If I leave my hydrated coir in my mixing tub long enough, it grows pin mold.
The one time I've had mold growing in my mixing tub was when I left the wooden spatula inside the coir tub. I thought the spatula got colonized from the sub up but on later reflection I remember the colony being thinnest whispiest on coir and looked more sturdy and vigorous on the spatula so my assumption from that was that the spatula provided the conditions for germination rather than the coir (in my case at least) and one other more time that I've seen grayish/white thin wispy stuff growing on straight coir was this one time and I initially assumed that since there was no spatula this other time the coir indeed must have supported germination itself. Then suddenly it dawned on me that I've had during that spawning session several times been scooping coir with my hands that I've seconds ago used to pull out grain spawn from jars, so I believe now that myc fragments from the spawn transferred from my hands into the hydrated coir and then I took a closer look at the stuff growing in the coir and I was fairly positive that it was just extremely weakened dying cube myc only and not some grayish mold as I initially thought. I don't have microscope so I don't know for sure.
I'll definitely do some experiments soon to find out what can even be defined as viable live fragment of mold and what it can do on straight coir and what it can do on top of healthy colonized substrates.
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
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poisoned
untitled



Registered: 04/17/13
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Mateja]
#26614330 - 04/20/20 04:43 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mateah said:
Quote:
poisoned said: Wet coir on top is sketching me out a bit. Contams could travel down that water and contaminate the brf.
Correct me if I'm wrong but you're in a way either assuming that a mold or bacteria spore will land on the wet coir, germinate the coir and continue to colonize the entire sub? Or you're assuming a sort of scenario where contaminant spores land on top of the hydrated coir and somehow get wicked down to nutritious parts where they germinate? (or if there's a third alternative you're thinking about that I missed)
I was thinking about the third alternative where living bacteria lands on coir. While it's not an issue with colonized spawn, because it doesn't have much to feed on and dies off, I'm wondering if it can reach the myc because it has some stored energy to reproduce and reach the cake that way.
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Psyche delics
Hypochondriac


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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: poisoned]
#26614461 - 04/20/20 06:37 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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I have some 2.5 year old spore syringes I'm gonna put on agar hopefully they're still viable I don't mind iF I have to clean it up a little anyone ever use old syringes?
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poisoned
untitled



Registered: 04/17/13
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Yeah, it could still work, especially if it was stored in a fridge. Might take a bit longer to germinate tho.
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A.k.a
Stranger



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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: poisoned]
#26614610 - 04/20/20 08:17 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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So I just recently started using a real pressure cooker instead of an instant pot.
The jars coming out of my presto are way different than I’m used to.
The seeds are much darker and wetter looking and usually clumped together until I do the redistribution shake when I take them out.
Is that normal? They seem to be working fine and look normal after a day or two, I’m assuming as the wbs soaks up the moisture.
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LAGM2020     
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Hobbit GDF
Deadhead



Registered: 02/14/19
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: A.k.a] 1
#26614639 - 04/20/20 08:28 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yeah exactly that. Shake them when u pull them out the PC and then another 12 hours later. Or I do every 12hrs until it looks good.
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Mateja


Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: poisoned]
#26614646 - 04/20/20 08:32 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
poisoned said:
Quote:
Mateah said:
Quote:
poisoned said: Wet coir on top is sketching me out a bit. Contams could travel down that water and contaminate the brf.
Correct me if I'm wrong but you're in a way either assuming that a mold or bacteria spore will land on the wet coir, germinate the coir and continue to colonize the entire sub? Or you're assuming a sort of scenario where contaminant spores land on top of the hydrated coir and somehow get wicked down to nutritious parts where they germinate? (or if there's a third alternative you're thinking about that I missed)
I was thinking about the third alternative where living bacteria lands on coir. While it's not an issue with colonized spawn, because it doesn't have much to feed on
I dont think that's how bacteria works tho, it's more or less a fish out of water when not propagated in liquids, unlike fungus mycelium which is mobile and agile bacterial colonies are dependant on moving water to be able to migrate around like it means business. The drier the environment the more handicapped this organism becomes. Colonies can and will tho take advantage of the more moist or wet parts of substrates or where there's lots of condensation but I just don't see how a colony would be able to go to town in an environment as loose and porous a BRF mix or on the outside of perfectly prepped grains that are dry.. The only time you'll ever see a bacterial colony on a petri dish amount to anything bigger than a lil speck is when there is a fair amount of condensation inside the plate in form of moving water. I know House hold green molds can survive for periods in dry open air cause I've seen them colonize rock hard slices of bread, flour, brick walls and what not. And from what source would a bacterial colonie even come from to suddenly appear floating inside an SAB all fresh and viable and that hasn't gone dormant and dried back into a spore or some other defensive strategy. I'm in no way expert nor well read on bacteria but I've read enough about the organism to understand that it's something completely different compared to mold.
This is one key reason why the BRF mix offers such high success rate when inoculated with bacterial spores, it's very far from optimal bacteria breeding ground.
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
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dmppb
On course


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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: A.k.a]
#26614746 - 04/20/20 09:19 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
A.k.a said: So I just recently started using a real pressure cooker instead of an instant pot.
The jars coming out of my presto are way different than I’m used to.
The seeds are much darker and wetter looking and usually clumped together until I do the redistribution shake when I take them out.
Is that normal? They seem to be working fine and look normal after a day or two, I’m assuming as the wbs soaks up the moisture.
yeah it happens to me too , some water at the bottom or on the side of the jar , then it's gone when shaken or in a day or two , if there's any water still in a couple of day then it's bad
-------------------- ...and when you loose control ; you'll reap the harvest you have sown.
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RyeHumor
MasterProcrastinator



Registered: 02/21/20
Posts: 210
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: dmppb]
#26614883 - 04/20/20 10:12 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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I got my buddy started on a pf tek grow.
He followed all the directions but decided to try one inoculation hole in the center of the lid as apposed to four.
I'm under the impression it should still be fine, the jars appear to be colonizing just fine. And I don't think you need much FAE to begin with.
Anyone have personal experience with it cause issues or working out like this?
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MLPismyOPSEC
That One Ponyfucker


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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: sh4d0ws]
#26614920 - 04/20/20 10:30 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
sh4d0ws said: I have noticed some correlation between bacterial spawn being slightly harder to break up, but trying to accurately gauge that seems near impossible, and you don't know the force you are applying each time you hit the jar. Still I think it is true that really bacterial spawn can be harder to break up sometimes.
Totally agree with you, it's practically impossible to quantify shaking/time/force directly with how bacterial it is. I'm just going from my own results of the spawn that has taken 5 minutes to shake producing a smaller first flush per quart than spawn that took 3 minutes or less. It's a rough and approximate correlation, and i'm mostly only using time as a factor because when you're shaking 40+ jars, i really don't like shaking jars for hours
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TedsDead



Registered: 01/03/17
Posts: 4,998
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: sh4d0ws]
#26614939 - 04/20/20 10:37 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
sh4d0ws said:
Quote:
MLPismyOPSEC said:
Quote:
Ovoidhunter said: Can I shake my jars to hard and too much? I shook some jars for probably a good 5 minutes thinking it would distribute grains better. Did I actually just damage the mycelium and stunt growth?
Short answer no. But taking a while to break up is a sign of contamination. Good spawn breaks up really fast. I've started to leave a stopwatch running, if it takes more than 3 minutes to break up, it's a little bacterial. If it takes more than 5 minutes, it's pretty sketchy.
I have noticed some correlation between bacterial spawn being slightly harder to break up, but trying to accurately gauge that seems near impossible, and you don't know the force you are applying each time you hit the jar. Still I think it is true that really bacterial spawn can be harder to break up sometimes.
it definitely is. you really notice it when you break up the bags but also some strains break up a little easier than others do also
-------------------- weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed... -the fabulous furry freak bros If you can buy it, you can burn it!
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Kimble
Idiot

Registered: 03/08/18
Posts: 508
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: TedsDead]
#26615062 - 04/20/20 11:27 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Got a tub here at seven days in. It appears to be fruiting already just with a particularly poor pin set. Should i case this? Harvest the early birds? Chill and let it do it's thang?
It's the last time I forget to use a liner. 7QT MS 1:1 CVG. I saved some CVG to put on a pseudo case at spawn about 1/4".
I've never seen pins before day 11 and never had so few before. What's the craic?
I'm hunting for clones. Should I be looking to swipe them early or let them mature to see the specific characteristics?
  
So for the vague questiony post.
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A.k.a
Stranger



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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Kimble] 1
#26615085 - 04/20/20 11:34 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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I’d leave it alone.
My first thought when reading your post was contam causing early pins but the pictures look pretty good. There’s a lot of spawn so maybe it just recovered fast. Sometimes with some cultures or with thicker top layers the myc won’t really colonize the surface but stays just underneath. When I’ve had it happen I mostly see knots poking through.
What did you use to level your surface??
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LAGM2020     
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Kimble
Idiot

Registered: 03/08/18
Posts: 508
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: A.k.a]
#26615222 - 04/20/20 12:18 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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I used a straight edge rule thing to flatten the surface. I was careful not to compact it. It could be a little bacterial perhaps though not enough to make me question the jars too much.
I'll let it ride, thanks.
Edited by Kimble (04/20/20 12:49 PM)
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Culliganman360
Stranger



Registered: 06/05/19
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Kimble]
#26615497 - 04/20/20 02:10 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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This a straight noob Q. But 🤷🏻♂️ Since I been cultin for a year now I been wiping jar lids before gtg transfer with wet iso napkin haven’t been able to find iso so now I use diluted bleach for my wipe downs . But is it really necessary to wipe the jar before G2g? Or can I go without
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poisoned
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Registered: 04/17/13
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I'd highly recommend you to wipe at least your master jar.
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staytrippy420


Registered: 03/23/13
Posts: 2,337
Loc: Canada
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: poisoned] 1
#26615711 - 04/20/20 03:56 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Forget to wipe one and find out
-------------------- Tek's I use LAGM2020
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