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gizmo1



Registered: 06/15/11
Posts: 3,831
Loc: FREEDOM
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: tedoro]
#26481005 - 02/11/20 08:21 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
tedoro said: Thats pretty good thinking. I wouldn't need more than your exterior measurement to convince me. Clearly the interior is warmer than that. Others have mentioned that thinner substrates dry out quicker, as they must... so you might need to isolate the differences somehow. Perhaps the drying slows them, no?
Yea im sure it does. Ive been havimg problems keeping the surface conditions up in my tapered tub the thin side dries out and the thick side will still have moisture beads. I try to mist just the one side but it doesn't really work that way.
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AyePlus
Stony Danza



Registered: 12/18/14
Posts: 3,393
Loc: Fairfield, Connecticut
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: gizmo1]
#26481017 - 02/11/20 08:33 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Thinner subs evaporate faster so take more maintenance, the 2.5-4“ is more of a guide than a rule, but the correlation between depth and surface area is definitely a consideration, a smaller tote like a shoebox will work better with a 1” deep sub than a full size mono, and on the other side of things you can also spawn smaller totes deeper because they wont heat up as much as a big deep mono. Amd if you do a wider range of spawn to sub IE 1:4 totes wont heat up as quickly because less nutrition= less energy= less heat generated..
More important than how deep is even depth or you’ll get uneven pinning and evap like Giz.
Same thing happens when the top layer is uneven, you’ll get quicker pinning in areas where its thinner.
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jbgtaa
extraterrestrial



Registered: 06/09/19
Posts: 1,785
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: PrimalSoup]
#26481026 - 02/11/20 08:38 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said: There was a pic a while back of this really thin sub with massive fruits, made me go "huh?" Maybe it was photoshopped? My experience is always thicker is better, up to something like four inches or so...
Would be interesting to do a tub and step it instead of taper...but it still doesn't prove it because I don't really know how far the myc transports stuff.
I’m pretty sure that thicker substrate gives better surface conditions just by its own metabolism, but check this out
  Those are second flush cubensis, with full (not hollow) stems and they almost pushed the lid off a 27 qt tub. I noticed all of my second flush fruits are ridiculously huge, and I’m nearly sure it has something to do with water content after a flush. Even using the exact same genetics from the same plate, I just got a bunch of tubs that wouldn’t fruit past a certain point of dryness, so idrk how to replicate those results without already going through the first flush.
This was a 3qt tub so obviously he substrate was about 3 inches thick, but this type of shit even happens with my 1qt shoeboxes. It could very well be genetics Just my 2¢ and experience.
-------------------- If the thunder don't get ya, the lightning will. In another time's forgotten space, your eyes looked through your mother's face. Trade List Forever giving away prints. PM at anytime for a free print.
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tedoro
ToadStool Tender



Registered: 02/06/15
Posts: 2,204
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: AyePlus]
#26481027 - 02/11/20 08:39 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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very interesting.
Some of my underbed 28q totes have an uneven floor.... there is a "footprint" that is inches smaller than the walls. Wonder if that could cause edges to pin more.
-------------------- -------------------- Deep pour soft agar plates-->bags of WBS-->Low Profile Monos Clean spawn thread | Put a thermometer on your PC
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Sockadin



Registered: 01/03/10
Posts: 7,244
Last seen: 2 months, 19 days
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: AyePlus]
#26481034 - 02/11/20 08:41 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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So if the goal is Even Pinset and not to much heat that what your saying is that 3-4 is the sweet spot for shoeboxes.
What about substrate hydration vs substrate depth in a mono compared to a shoebox? I am loving Primalsoup's hydration test of PE in shoeboxes at different levels 20+ 30+ 40 + 50+ 60+ 70+
Like IMO I love the 30+ flush that Primal Produced, but would a 30+ 4" be better or worse than a 70+ 1.5 inch?
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Sockadin



Registered: 01/03/10
Posts: 7,244
Last seen: 2 months, 19 days
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: jbgtaa]
#26481041 - 02/11/20 08:44 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
jbgtaa said:
Quote:
PrimalSoup said: There was a pic a while back of this really thin sub with massive fruits, made me go "huh?" Maybe it was photoshopped? My experience is always thicker is better, up to something like four inches or so...
Would be interesting to do a tub and step it instead of taper...but it still doesn't prove it because I don't really know how far the myc transports stuff.
I’m pretty sure that thicker substrate gives better surface conditions just by its own metabolism, but check this out
  Those are second flush cubensis, with full (not hollow) stems and they almost pushed the lid off a 27 qt tub. I noticed all of my second flush fruits are ridiculously huge, and I’m nearly sure it has something to do with water content after a flush. Even using the exact same genetics from the same plate, I just got a bunch of tubs that wouldn’t fruit past a certain point of dryness, so idrk how to replicate those results without already going through the first flush.
This was a 3qt tub so obviously he substrate was about 3 inches thick, but this type of shit even happens with my 1qt shoeboxes. It could very well be genetics Just my 2¢ and experience.
So I am 6' 5" tall with 76" wing span, I wanted to share this picture because this was the daddy of TMF that I sent to Stromrider years ago.
Some people have said it was due to lack of FAE>.
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sh4d0ws
LSx


Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 12,086
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Sockadin]
#26481042 - 02/11/20 08:44 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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These grew from a 1" maybe 1.5" max sub level, that would be after adding the jiffy casing too
I think some varieties still tend to push out fatties even if the sub is thin...genetics is my best guess
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AyePlus
Stony Danza



Registered: 12/18/14
Posts: 3,393
Loc: Fairfield, Connecticut
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: sh4d0ws]
#26481065 - 02/11/20 08:57 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Genetics definitely plays a huge part. But so does moisture content of sub, brightness of lights and FAE.
I’f say as a general rule of thumb:
Wettish sub + Bright lights + High FAE = short fat dark capped dense fruits
Regular sub +Low lights + low FAE = long skinny fruits with small pale caps
Wet sub + low fae = stalling slow growth lots of aborts or first flush is all shorties trich before first flush, especially if there are temp swings
Different genetics respond differently to different conditions. I have a homie locally who I’ve traded clones with and his method made them turn out different, some varieties respond very well to high fae and some do alright no matter how stagnant the air is. Gotta learn what your clones like or just find genetics thatxperform well in your conditions..
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TedsDead



Registered: 01/03/17
Posts: 4,998
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: AyePlus]
#26481073 - 02/11/20 08:59 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
AyePlus said:
Wettish sub + Bright lights + High FAE = short fat dark capped dense fruits
... mine dont look that bad
-------------------- weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed... -the fabulous furry freak bros If you can buy it, you can burn it!
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: gizmo1]
#26481082 - 02/11/20 09:03 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
gizmo1 said: My theory is a thicker sub heats up more and therefore colonizes faster. Can anyone think of a good way to test this?
I know thick subs heat up 'cause I've monitored them and they end up way above ambient. And it makes sense the thicker the warmer.
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Sockadin]
#26481086 - 02/11/20 09:07 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sockadin said: So if the goal is Even Pinset and not to much heat that what your saying is that 3-4 is the sweet spot for shoeboxes.
What about substrate hydration vs substrate depth in a mono compared to a shoebox? I am loving Primalsoup's hydration test of PE in shoeboxes at different levels 20+ 30+ 40 + 50+ 60+ 70+
Like IMO I love the 30+ flush that Primal Produced, but would a 30+ 4" be better or worse than a 70+ 1.5 inch?
yeah but those were single mycoquarts of rye in 3 cup containers, so pretty small shoes. I think you'd have to try it with sub hydration too, but how to test that out? I always just go to field capacity because, well...field capacity.
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TedsDead



Registered: 01/03/17
Posts: 4,998
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: PrimalSoup]
#26481088 - 02/11/20 09:08 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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@ Gizmo: a temp probe or gun works well. that only works assuming your room was too cold and needed to be warmer for conditions to be ideal. if your space is too hot you might toasst your spawn hand have it trich out
-------------------- weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed... -the fabulous furry freak bros If you can buy it, you can burn it!
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25947396#25947396
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gizmo1



Registered: 06/15/11
Posts: 3,831
Loc: FREEDOM
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: TedsDead]
#26481103 - 02/11/20 09:19 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
TedsDead said: @ Gizmo: a temp probe or gun works well. that only works assuming your room was too cold and needed to be warmer for conditions to be ideal. if your space is too hot you might toasst your spawn hand have it trich out
Im not sure I understand this post by gun you mean infared thermometer? If so thats what I used in the first place but that omly measures surface temps im more interested in the temps in the center of the substrate I guess. Also yes I could see how if it was too hot in the room already this could cause a problem but over the last month Ive been monitoring surface temps in all my tubs and I've never really seen more than like a 3.5°F rise over ambient room temperatures. With around 3° being the norm. Im not sure if the center temp is much higher than the surface and if so if the center of a thick sub is significantly hotter than a thin sub. I guess this is what im curious about.
Edit actually I have no idea what the ambient room temp is just surface temp of empty tub walls random shit compared to the colonizing tubs.
Edited by gizmo1 (02/11/20 09:53 PM)
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TedsDead



Registered: 01/03/17
Posts: 4,998
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: gizmo1]
#26481117 - 02/11/20 09:25 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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yes that is what i meant by gun you can buy one of those in/out RH/temp sensors and burry the probe in the sub of one of the totes whenm u spawn. I did that with the thermostat sensor probe way back when I used to fuck with heat mats an shit in the winter
-------------------- weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed... -the fabulous furry freak bros If you can buy it, you can burn it!
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25947396#25947396
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jbgtaa
extraterrestrial



Registered: 06/09/19
Posts: 1,785
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: TedsDead]
#26481160 - 02/11/20 10:03 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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I think field capacity is a good “starting point”. It’s all very nuanced but wet(er) grain could grant the moisture needed to get those types of massive fruits on the first flush, using field capacity (or slightly less than) coir. You know what I’m saying?
-------------------- If the thunder don't get ya, the lightning will. In another time's forgotten space, your eyes looked through your mother's face. Trade List Forever giving away prints. PM at anytime for a free print.
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TedsDead



Registered: 01/03/17
Posts: 4,998
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: jbgtaa]
#26481161 - 02/11/20 10:07 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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hmm... im curious to do a grain hydration to total yield comparison across a strain test. hadnt considered how that might factor in before thanks for that
-------------------- weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed... -the fabulous furry freak bros If you can buy it, you can burn it!
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25947396#25947396
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Oregonic



Registered: 11/05/10
Posts: 315
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: TedsDead]
#26481203 - 02/11/20 11:04 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Didn't wanna start a new thread for this, just wanna throw it out there and see what anyone thinks about my situation. Might be a little long and I apologise if I'm derailing any current discussion here! Appreciate if anyone takes the time to read.
So it's been a while since I've been into mush cult, it sucks to say but I had decided to take a break because trich was owning my ass. There were other factors but ultimately it was the trich that made me give up.
After getting back on the shroomery and looking at some old pics, I've got the fuckin itch again and I'm planning on getting back into it, and would like some insight and advice to avoid the same situation unfolding. A bit about the setup, techs and such: standard monotubs with coir/verm (classic bucket Tek), mostly rye for spawn but sometimes oats. Had a homemade flowhood and inoculation methods varied between agar wedge > grain, g2g, and the blender blade lid liquid inoc (forget what y'all called that). Pretty standard stuff.
For the record: my contam rate on plates and in spawn jars, at least to meets the eye, was very low. I constantly had dozens upon dozens of plates at once between a side project of trying to isolate and multiple xfers per clone/spore swipe for peace of mind before noccing jars - and I rarely had bad plates or so I think. Same for jars, spawn always appeared very clean and getting a bad jar was pretty rare. And up until the trich outbreak my tubs were always pretty on point. Not always perfect and had room for improvement, but satisfactory by most standards.
The trich would always show itself during or shortly after letting the myc colonize the coir. In fact I think it started out as seeing my first trich after a first flush and then progressively earlier, to the point where, at worst, trich could start to overtake during colonization in the tub and not even be able to get a flush.
With everything I've read, everyone will probably say "it's your grain spawn", and while I can't disagree because tbh I don't know, just makes no damn sense considering nearly every jar used to always be beautiful healthy myc that colonized at good rates. I'm not saying my jars were always pe
Considering I'd gotten by for quite some time without seeing trich to not even being able to get a flush, I can't help but think the first contam plus subsequent trich contams created a massive trich sporeload in the room I used, making it so when I spawned my tubs with cvg in open air the trich spores were just too plentiful. Looking back I should have tried mixing tubs in another space and taking more care when disposing of bad tubs (I tried to be very careful with this but... Yeah) but hindsight 20/20. Considering I feel my spawn was typically clean and I'd had low to non existent contam rates pre-tub phase, is this a possibility that my space had simply become too contaminated with trich spores?
For the longest time when brainstorming what had gone wrong I was thinking my flowhood could be the culprit and my grain spawn wasn't as clean as meets the eye. Before getting back into the swing of things would it be adequate to test my flowhood by leaving a few open dishes in front of it to see if I pick up any contams? What would be a reasonable number of plates/tests and what length of time to let t he plates sit without showing contams in order to deem the FH safe?
Fun side note: I'd found some forgotten unused PCd rye jars that were 100% clean so I know it's not my AA PC. I also found half a sleeve of unused, poured plates showing zero contams so I suspect the FH is fine but I realize this isn't a perfect "test". It also hurts to admit but I uh, also found a batch of old forgotten colonized jars, and while there are metabolites present there's no sign of trich, just sad, shriveled and shrunken grain spawn.
Did my laziness and apparent carelessness when dealing with a couple of trich'd tubs just completely fuck my space? When I start back up I'm going to use a different space and ideally split things up between several spaces. How many of you guys do *everything* in the same room? Have any of you had your asses handed to you by trich and recovered?
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Oregonic]
#26481228 - 02/11/20 11:28 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Oregonic said: With everything I've read, everyone will probably say "it's your grain spawn", and while I can't disagree because tbh I don't know, just makes no damn sense considering nearly every jar used to always be beautiful healthy myc that colonized at good rates. I'm not saying my jars were always pe
Yeah I've had trich problems and recovered. And yeah it seems like it shows up once and then more often and then starts to show up everywhere. The spores get into shit but they don't live forever.
So #1 if it's a problem is clean everything you can manage. Maybe switch out locations for spawn running, for fruiting, the usual. Change your sub around as well. Burn your house down and use the insurance to buy a new one that's never been grown in. Or just do something else for a few years until the spores degrade. Spawn under semi-sterile conditions without any fans running or open windows. Fit out a room so you can wipe it all down and never bring anything into it that's been anywhere near the growing area.
But #2 is yeah it could be your spawn. It can look healthy and all but carry the spores or a low level infection that doesn't show up until the myc colonizes certain subs and (I guess) puts out some sort of chemical signal that the trich reads to say "party time!" That's just what it does IME. If it's bad it just shows up right at the worst time and then it makes itself a habit of that.
Compromised spawn in any way will give trich a hold. That's why usually it won't show up on healthy tubs until right near the end of flushes. It's a good reason to compost tubs that have seen their better days. Compromised spawn will invite it in before it even fruits, I had that happen just the other day with some old so-so jars that I cased out to see if they would produce anything. You see that green you gotta get it outside quick and leave it covered up while you do so...
Think about it like this - when you start out fresh you usually never see trich. It takes a while and some infestations before it gets a foothold. So figure out how to get back to fresh and go from there.
Fuck, long answer, but long question. Good luck.
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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Sankhara
Trump's lost child


Registered: 02/11/18
Posts: 546
Loc: Argentina
Last seen: 8 days, 21 hours
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: PrimalSoup]
#26481386 - 02/12/20 03:45 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Sooo... I am looking into trying something new, Should i go with PE or sclerotia forming?
I know about their potency differences and how differently they are grown. Just curious what do you guys think?
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A.k.a
Stranger



Registered: 10/27/19
Posts: 16,781
Loc: Gaming the system
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Sankhara]
#26481512 - 02/12/20 07:31 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Does this growth look suspect??
I don’t like the look of those long fingers but I’m not sure if it’s just the culture or thickness of top layer.
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LAGM2020     
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