Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Mushroom-Hut Liquid Cultures   North Spore Bulk Substrate   PhytoExtractum Kratom Powder for Sale   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds

Jump to first unread post Pages: < First | < Back | 1287 | 1288 | 1289 | 1290 | 1291 | 1292 | 1293 | 1294 | 1295 | 1296 | 1297 | 1298 | 1299 | 1300 | 1301 | 1302 | 1303 | 1304 | 1305 | 1306 | 1307 | Next > | Last >
OfflineEdmunter
Mr
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/01/13
Posts: 5,699
Last seen: 19 days, 9 hours
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: junk_f00d]
    #26172371 - 09/06/19 11:20 AM (4 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

junk_f00d said:
So when gearing up to do hundreds of isolates for testing, what's the best way to test them? It's infeasible for me to run hundreds of monotubs and thousands of mason jars (and wasteful even if it was feasible). Is spawning a quart jar to 8x4 disposable foil trays a good idea? IS it worth downsizing to pint jars or smaller just for isolate testing purposes? I couldn't find teks on this so if someone wants to link me that'd be great! Nothing like great, well written advice from the veterans :mushroom2:




I was told looking for isolates is a fools mission unless you want to cross it of the tick list.  Finding a decent clone for most people is easier. 

Saying that, If you look at my photo below I have 4 shoeboxes in 1 mono so you could test 4 per mono which I use 2 quarts per box.  Test 20 a month.....ect


Edited by Edmunter (09/06/19 11:22 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineverum subsequentis
seeker of truth
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 03/22/16
Posts: 8,732
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Edmunter]
    #26172380 - 09/06/19 11:24 AM (4 years, 4 months ago)

i test in shoes. 1 q spawn to roughly 2-2.5 q sub. i also throw them into tubs and treat just like any other tub


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinejunk_f00d
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/04/15
Posts: 933
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26172710 - 09/06/19 02:37 PM (4 years, 4 months ago)

I don't have hundreds of isolates but I'm on the hunt. I like the idea of doing shoeboxes in a mono, it's nice if my fruiting environment is as similar as possible to a monotub so I know I'm getting stuff that flourishes in there. I thought about just getting many tiny monotubs (20+) and stacking them away when not in use.. Is that dumb? I think 10qts is a good size for a single quart but idk. Maybe I'll look into using pint size jars for testing and go even smaller.

Also, who said hunting for isolates is foolish? I mean I also have clone cultures, but I'm always looking to improve and have time to kill so :shrug:


Edited by junk_f00d (09/06/19 02:45 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLtLurker
Lost Sailor
 User Gallery


Registered: 01/03/18
Posts: 7,535
Loc: Borderlands Flag
Last seen: 6 days, 7 hours
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: junk_f00d]
    #26172734 - 09/06/19 02:49 PM (4 years, 4 months ago)

An isolate is a single set of genetics, a single strain, 2 spores mated only. It takes a really long time, a shit ton of transfers, and a keen eye for vectoring to accomplish a true isolate. Verum's PE isolate project took him over a year to actually get some isolates to test.

It's very common for people to throw isolate around but meaning what we call a clone, or just an even nice culture.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinejunk_f00d
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/04/15
Posts: 933
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: LtLurker]
    #26172758 - 09/06/19 02:54 PM (4 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

keen eye for vectoring




wdym?

I'm aware it will take time, but the process is fun. I just want some perfectly circular agar plates to call my own and slants I can be proud of :crazy2:

And from what I've heard it can be accomplished in a much shorter time span than a year..



Edited by junk_f00d (09/06/19 03:00 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLtLurker
Lost Sailor
 User Gallery


Registered: 01/03/18
Posts: 7,535
Loc: Borderlands Flag
Last seen: 6 days, 7 hours
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: junk_f00d]
    #26172771 - 09/06/19 02:59 PM (4 years, 4 months ago)

ok, i misunderstood thinking you said you had a bunch to test.

If you wanna do it for the love of the game and see what you can do, then fuck yea go for it and share your progress with us.

e/ I suppose the more diluted your starting syringe is the less time it could take. Apparently with the right tools you could even start with an isolate by isolating 2 spores from the get-go.


Edited by LtLurker (09/06/19 03:14 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinejunk_f00d
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/04/15
Posts: 933
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: LtLurker]
    #26172781 - 09/06/19 03:04 PM (4 years, 4 months ago)

:rockon:  :rockon:  :rockon:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinejunk_f00d
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/04/15
Posts: 933
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: junk_f00d]
    #26172892 - 09/06/19 04:21 PM (4 years, 4 months ago)

I don't understand how accurately propogating non-isolated clone cultures works.

When you clone a non-isolated shroomie and grow it on agar it starts to sector cuz many strains reside in that clone. Got it. Where I'm confused is how to accurately grow this culture - since the beautiful shroom I picked was a genetic hodge podge, simply grabbing any leading edge would, I assume, omit other strains to some extent (similar to how strain isolation works by repeated isolation), and this could change the results similar to how repeated isolation attemps would.. Though AFAIK strains do share genetic information as they merge or whatever, so any random pick from the clone culture plate should still have genetic info from the clone. But on the other end, if you propogate leading edge sectors enough you end up with an isolate, not a clone culture.. Does that make sense?

I guess what I'm asking is if you can perfectly propogate a non-isolated clone culture? Or do you just end up with a closley related new culture? Hope that makes sense I'm just confused on what's going on here.


Edited by junk_f00d (09/06/19 05:58 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleFiatFirmamentum
Stranger
Male

Registered: 04/15/19
Posts: 59
Loc: Central EU
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: LtLurker]
    #26172952 - 09/06/19 05:00 PM (4 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

LtLurker said:
An isolate is a single set of genetics, a single strain, 2 spores mated only. It takes a really long time, a shit ton of transfers, and a keen eye for vectoring to accomplish a true isolate. Verum's PE isolate project took him over a year to actually get some isolates to test.

It's very common for people to throw isolate around but meaning what we call a clone, or just an even nice culture.




I believe that fastest way to get isolate would be by using methods established in microbiology as effective.

I have read somewhere figure that fully colonized plate contains ~1g of wet oyster mycelium. Let's assume it's the same for cubensis. Average mass of yeast cell is around 60 picograms. Let's assume it's the same for cubensis. Therefore, we can expect that in fully colonized plate there are ~1.5 x 1010 (!) cubensis cells.

Typical wedge can be easily put in 1.5ml tube, it's around 6% of media volume in plate (108.95 cells). We blend it in 500ml of sterile water, therefore each ml contains around 1750705 cells. That's way too much. Therefore, we throw out 509ml of liquid inoculant (by putting 1ml in sterile syringe), and refill to 500ml. Now it's only 3501 cells per ml. Therefore our 10μL inoculation loop will contain around 35 cells. Assuming standard 90mm Petri plate and 45cm streaking path, we can expect less than 1 cell per cm.

Unfortunately, this reasoning assumes that cells don't clump together, but it still should yield much better results than manual transfers. Other good results can probably come from adapting the biopsy method.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLtLurker
Lost Sailor
 User Gallery


Registered: 01/03/18
Posts: 7,535
Loc: Borderlands Flag
Last seen: 6 days, 7 hours
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: FiatFirmamentum]
    #26172985 - 09/06/19 05:15 PM (4 years, 4 months ago)

Sounds like dilution but for mycellium instead of spores. I suppose it could work, but with clumping and anastosmosis, your streaks my still have a similar "strain count", just starting from a smaller piece. Don't take that as definite, just how it's sounding at first glance. Blending's gonna add some unpredictability i'd think.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinetryptkaloids
Learner
I'm a teapot


Registered: 02/08/15
Posts: 12,641
Loc: Exact Center
Last seen: 3 days, 13 hours
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: junk_f00d]
    #26173156 - 09/06/19 07:18 PM (4 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

junk_f00d said:
I don't understand how accurately propogating non-isolated clone cultures works.

When you clone a non-isolated shroomie and grow it on agar it starts to sector cuz many strains reside in that clone. Got it. Where I'm confused is how to accurately grow this culture - since the beautiful shroom I picked was a genetic hodge podge, simply grabbing any leading edge would, I assume, omit other strains to some extent (similar to how strain isolation works by repeated isolation), and this could change the results similar to how repeated isolation attemps would.. Though AFAIK strains do share genetic information as they merge or whatever, so any random pick from the clone culture plate should still have genetic info from the clone. But on the other end, if you propogate leading edge sectors enough you end up with an isolate, not a clone culture.. Does that make sense?

I guess what I'm asking is if you can perfectly propogate a non-isolated clone culture? Or do you just end up with a closley related new culture? Hope that makes sense I'm just confused on what's going on here.



The short answer is we don't know. This site is the leading source and none of us have genetic testing equipment. There's a few members here who understand how genes merge so youll have to track them down, theres a lot of info but we don't knkw where the line is


--------------------
"Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage
Flowchart for Recommended plan of action.
Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms
Use the Damn search engine
After you know what you're doing, take a break 
Pick a book, Make some chips!
Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
 


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleCaps McGee
Grandaddy Smurfshack
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 10/28/17
Posts: 14,357
Loc: ally known as ... Flag
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: tryptkaloids]
    #26173170 - 09/06/19 07:31 PM (4 years, 4 months ago)

Taking tissue and transferring until it's clean; like anyone else... Not trying to sound like an ass, but not sure what you asking exactly? Lol nimrod...
Quote:

rickyswamps said:
Quote:

Caps McGee said:
Quote:

tryptkaloids said:
My bet is it's a conditions problem



I guarantee it... 10 different clones?
:justno:
No way your luck is that bad... I'd bet on excess moisture ... classic newb move




How would you come to that conclusion?  The clones are grown in the same conditions as MS tubs.  The clones yield, just not as good as the MS tubs.  Not my first go at this. 

Was looking for constructive advice instead of "classic newb move."




Conclusion drawn from the evidence my friend... suppose the same way quirk deduced conditions the issue... Constructive advice is there: lay off the water... NEWB!
:hyperlol:
Also, get your panties out of a wad: i dont look at whos posting what, couldve sworn it was a new registry? I just call em booboo... not that field capacity has changed, just a growing realization that it's slightly wet for mushrooms to have optimal set and forget conditions... But I'll not waste any more of your time with my nonsense... We're a group of scientists sharing information, I didn't mean to hurt you...


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinejunk_f00d
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/04/15
Posts: 933
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: tryptkaloids]
    #26173179 - 09/06/19 07:40 PM (4 years, 4 months ago)

OK, I had a feeling this was the case. So it seems like the best way then to propogate clone cultures accurately is to take enough tissue samples so that you can afford to drop entire plates into jars (tic tac toe tiger drop style like a baller), so that all sectors/strains are present? I imagine then one sector may become more dominant, but :shrug: I guess another method would be taking wedges from each sector, putting into a grain jar and just hoping that anastamosis hooks a brutha up.

Just hypothetically. I don't do this personally but I might start just for fun and compare it to what I normally do (just take a wedge from a good looking sector into a new master jar).


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleCaps McGee
Grandaddy Smurfshack
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 10/28/17
Posts: 14,357
Loc: ally known as ... Flag
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: junk_f00d]
    #26173205 - 09/06/19 08:01 PM (4 years, 4 months ago)

No... take 2-5 tissue samples per intended clone in case any fail, transfer away from the rotting tissue before introducing the culture to sterile any thing... I've used a few tissue plates and gotten away with it, but generally ends poorly... transfer at least once, until the culture grows out uniform in shape and form before use... spend the extra time and plates to save yourself LOADS more on the back end... short cut and get cut short, ya digs?

If there are sectors displaying  (unlikely with an MS clone culture, as it will still contain too many strains to unpack) then transfer those that look the most aggressive and clean...


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleYesum
Furry as Fuc
Male User Gallery


Registered: 11/05/12
Posts: 13,124
Loc: Central Part of Town
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Caps McGee]
    #26173242 - 09/06/19 08:24 PM (4 years, 4 months ago)

I think there talking about trying to keep original characteristics from a clone. How everytime you transfer from a leading sector you run the risk of loosing characteristics from the original clone


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleCaps McGee
Grandaddy Smurfshack
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 10/28/17
Posts: 14,357
Loc: ally known as ... Flag
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Yesum]
    #26173254 - 09/06/19 08:33 PM (4 years, 4 months ago)

Absolutely... but not transfering runs the risk of never fruiting and losing ALL, not just some characteristics... keep the original tissue plate in cold storage if this is the concern... this will slow or stop the development of contamination, and preserve all available genetics
.. thing about that is, even the tissue sample will be of more isolated genetics than the fruit as a whole, and realistically, the characteristics being sought after, very well transferred away from with the chosen tissue, and dried/discarded with the remnant donor


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinejunk_f00d
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/04/15
Posts: 933
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Caps McGee]
    #26173270 - 09/06/19 08:47 PM (4 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Caps McGee said:
thing about that is, even the tissue sample will be of more isolated genetics than the fruit as a whole, and realistically, the characteristics being sought after, very well transferred away from with the chosen tissue, and dried/discarded with the remnant donor




This is what I'm getting at (now you're getting it :wink:). I'm wondering if there's a way, even just hypothetically, to mitigate the slight isolation that occurs when doing tissue transfers from clone cultures.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleCaps McGee
Grandaddy Smurfshack
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 10/28/17
Posts: 14,357
Loc: ally known as ... Flag
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: junk_f00d]
    #26173278 - 09/06/19 08:51 PM (4 years, 4 months ago)

No... clone the whole fruit, hope the rotting tissue doesn't cause bacteria I suppose... I doubt the difference discernable, and suspect this exercise to likely be one of futility


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleYesum
Furry as Fuc
Male User Gallery


Registered: 11/05/12
Posts: 13,124
Loc: Central Part of Town
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Caps McGee]
    #26173286 - 09/06/19 08:55 PM (4 years, 4 months ago)

Also by not taking from the sector when it displays itself should help to right.  Or no. You know. Take a clean piece just not from the leading sector when it shows.

I've actually been thinking about this lately myself.

Of course you have to keep transferring.

I clone whole fruits all the time. Because I'm a gangster. There just not fruits taken from a tub but rather a fruiting petri


--------------------


Edited by Yesum (09/06/19 09:05 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
modboy
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,281
Loc: where?
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Yesum]
    #26173298 - 09/06/19 09:08 PM (4 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Yesum said:
Because I'm a gangster.




:coolcat:



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < First | < Back | 1287 | 1288 | 1289 | 1290 | 1291 | 1292 | 1293 | 1294 | 1295 | 1296 | 1297 | 1298 | 1299 | 1300 | 1301 | 1302 | 1303 | 1304 | 1305 | 1306 | 1307 | Next > | Last >

Shop: Mushroom-Hut Liquid Cultures   North Spore Bulk Substrate   PhytoExtractum Kratom Powder for Sale   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* alt.drugs.mushrooms.cultivation (good/bad idea) BikeCourier 6,440 9 10/26/21 06:04 PM
by LogicaL Chaos
* Vegetative growth VS generative growth? LoveLightPeace 1,542 1 06/04/18 02:15 PM
by jason9086
* casing from "The mushroom Cultivator" upupup 17,893 8 11/13/20 10:41 AM
by tiptrippy
* YoshiTrainer's guide to low-prep grains
( 1 2 3 4 ... 12 13 all )
YoshiTrainer 8,238 249 01/07/24 06:48 PM
by MoJim
* Important - All Cultivators please read.
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 all )
ThorA 41,587 103 05/31/05 03:35 AM
by Anno
* Post deleted by users_request
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
McMan 25,295 93 05/06/01 01:56 PM
by 3DSHROOM
* Post deleted by users_request
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
NuShroomPharmerII 26,676 85 06/04/01 04:53 PM
by MNmyc
* VOTE!! Outdoor Cultivation Forum w/Moe For Mod!!
( 1 2 3 4 all )
TM 23,449 73 04/13/10 01:30 AM
by jingus

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Shroomism, george castanza, RogerRabbit, veggie, mushboy, fahtster, LogicaL Chaos, 13shrooms, Stipe-n Cap, Pastywhyte, bodhisatta, Tormato, Land Trout, A.k.a
1,194,943 topic views. 28 members, 255 guests and 100 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.032 seconds spending 0.015 seconds on 13 queries.