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OfflineFailboat
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: rickyswamps]
    #26171961 - 09/06/19 07:10 AM (4 years, 4 months ago)

Field capacity is a vague term that means little. If you can squeeze it and water drips out then it's too wet. Clones and MS can both perform well when done properly. First your spawn needs to be clean and second your coir needs to be not too wet.


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OfflineCthulhu23
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Failboat]
    #26172051 - 09/06/19 08:24 AM (4 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Quirkmeister92 said:
Field capacity is a vague term that means little. If you can squeeze it and water drips out then it's too wet.




Isn’t that precisely what field capacity is, though?  Too wet = above field capacity; a few drops = right around field capacity.  Maybe you’re saying it’s not precise enough of a term (I.e., you’d prefer something like “field capacity is exactly x amount of water to y amount of coir”)?

As with many aspects of this hobby, I’ve found there’s much that is imprecise because there are so many variables and individual factors.


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OfflineEdmunter
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Failboat]
    #26172086 - 09/06/19 08:48 AM (4 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Quirkmeister92 said:
Field capacity is a vague term that means little. If you can squeeze it and water drips out then it's too wet. Clones and MS can both perform well when done properly. First your spawn needs to be clean and second your coir needs to be not too wet.




Has the definition of field capacity changed then?


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OfflineEdmunter
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Edmunter]
    #26172098 - 09/06/19 08:53 AM (4 years, 4 months ago)



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OfflineShaperDreaming
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Edmunter]
    #26172133 - 09/06/19 09:14 AM (4 years, 4 months ago)

Here's from my shoebox assembly tek for field capacity:

Quote:

ShaperDreaming said:
JUST UNDER FIELD CAPACITY


I will be using 100% coir for this tek. One of my aims with all this work, besides SFF, is to also KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!), meaning that I aim to avoid any extra points of contamination. So, I will only be using Coco Coir w/o any verm or gypsum.

One of the keys to my tek is to ensure that your coir is just under field capacity. How you set that up is in my SFF Coir Prep Tek, and the key that you want is to be able to squeeze the fuck out of it w/o almost any water running out of it. This gif makes it hard to see (zoom in for better view), but there is maybe 1 drop runs between my knuckles at a point, that's it. I had to squeeze the ever-loving-shit out of it too. This is how you test for field capacity.



Using just below field capacity coir allows you to create better surface conditions for a shoebox that you can set and ignore for the whole fruiting process. You'll see later that we create a very moist top-coat which will draw mushrooms towards the surface, avoiding side/bottom pins.




I think the thing about it being a vague term is that most people misinterpret it, and also that needs a visual/manual inspection to ensure. I even lie in this tek because "just below" is actually just field capacity, but people usually are over field capacity when they make their substrates, so I tried to get people to aim even lower. Coir actually needs very little initial hydration to support a full first flush of mushies.


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OfflineFailboat
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Edmunter]
    #26172147 - 09/06/19 09:23 AM (4 years, 4 months ago)

Sometimes people think their coir is at field capacity when it is really too wet is my point. Rickyswamps said his coir was at field capacity, but as Cthulu pointed out there is much imprecision with mush cult. Only rickyswamps knows how wet his coir really was, or perhaps he is actually unsure as well considering overhydrated coir is more wet at the bottom of the batch and if he didn't squeeze test all of it that could be his problem. I'm trying to help troublshoot here and so I need as much info as possible to rule out the variables. Telling me hydrated to field capacity isn't descriptive ebough to be sure that hydration is or is not the problem to address. If you know how much coir was hydrated with how much water and the physical attributes of the batch then that information could help, but if you don't even know this info then were kind of guessing in the dark.

:whatshesaid:


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OfflineMLPismyOPSEC
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Failboat]
    #26172199 - 09/06/19 09:44 AM (4 years, 4 months ago)

IMO, RogerRabbit's video of field capacity is the tiniest bit over-hydrated, and Shaper's is about as perfect as your going to get. Shoot for somewhere in between those two examples, and you are golden. There should be enough moisture that when you squeeze, you get somewhere between "knuckles a little damp" and "4 or 5 small droplets of water dripping from your palm." If there is anything close to a stream of water dripping from your palm, it's way too wet. And it's extremely easy to become too wet!


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Invisiblerickyswamps
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: MLPismyOPSEC]
    #26172226 - 09/06/19 10:00 AM (4 years, 4 months ago)

Lol. The hydration of the coir isn’t the problem.  I appreciate the help though.  My questions are about finding good clone cultures.  Just assume I grow them right.


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OfflineFishLevelMidnight
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: rickyswamps]
    #26172246 - 09/06/19 10:11 AM (4 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah I have had clones, especially pin clones, that do not perform as well as MS.

I have been enjoying using MS T2 for almost all of my grows- more genetics- and it always does well.

A good clone can kill it of course but unless you need C amount in D time, than why not run MS and not get the short stubby clones or the clones that push out like 3 huge fruit?


--------------------





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OfflineShaperDreaming
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: rickyswamps]
    #26172248 - 09/06/19 10:12 AM (4 years, 4 months ago)

Back to your original issue at hand Ricky: that seems really weird to have that much dysfunction from clones. I've worked with about half a dozen clones at this point, and they've all performed decently well, and I usually only cloned one to two fruits to work with from a good flush. Some were as good as MS and I ditched them (2) and just started back from spores at that point. The others perform quite well, particularly my PE6 clone (which somehow pumps out first flush sporeless, then second flush has spores... fucking wild, I love it).

Honestly, I don't think clones are as critical to getting good fruits as some people do. Starting from spores and a few transfers of isolation usually gets me as decent results as most clones, with the occasional crap (same with clones).

To have 9/10 clones turn out crap does seem to indicate a problem with something besides the cloning process though :heart: Good luck!


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OfflineShaperDreaming
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: FishLevelMidnight]
    #26172250 - 09/06/19 10:13 AM (4 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

FishLevelMidnight said:
I have been enjoying using MS T2 for almost all of my grows- more genetics- and it always does well.




T3 for me, but yeah, same. I only do clones when phenotype hunting now. Some good isolation on agar goes a really long way.


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Offlinetryptkaloids
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: ShaperDreaming]
    #26172282 - 09/06/19 10:37 AM (4 years, 4 months ago)

You can assume you're doing everything right, but you still arent getting the results you want... Why not make an adjustment? Maybe all you clones really are shit, but you will never know until you keep trying to make those genes work


--------------------
"Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage
Flowchart for Recommended plan of action.
Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms
Use the Damn search engine
After you know what you're doing, take a break 
Pick a book, Make some chips!
Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
 


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OfflineFailboat
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: tryptkaloids]
    #26172312 - 09/06/19 10:55 AM (4 years, 4 months ago)

A clone that doesn't fruit sounds strange. Even more strange; a clone that doesn't fruit and fruits poorly. Ditch it or troubleshoot are the only options. Otherwise, assuming you "grow them right" you'll get the same inconsistent results. Sounds contradictory to me...:smoker:


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Invisiblerickyswamps
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: tryptkaloids]
    #26172337 - 09/06/19 11:06 AM (4 years, 4 months ago)

I’m all about making adjustments and improvements.  I’ve just already been through the heartaches Is properly hydrating coco.  Done it too wet, done it too dry, and seen it done right.  And as I said a couple times, I grow MS and clones side by side and have never had a clone culture showing superior results.

Quirk, they fruit.  Was getting 80-90g dry from monos.  It’s not like it’s a disaster.  Just not any better.

Shaper and Fish, those are my feelings too.  Get it clean and run it.  Just always read about how clones are the ticket to solid canopies, high yields, and consistent potency.  So did a lot of culture work, and wasn’t impressed...:shrug:  so that’s why I asked.  Looking for some testimonials from folks that have success!


Edited by rickyswamps (09/06/19 11:08 AM)


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OfflineEdmunter
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: rickyswamps]
    #26172342 - 09/06/19 11:09 AM (4 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

rickyswamps said:
I’m all about making adjustments and improvements.  I’ve just already been through the heartaches Is properly hydrating coco.  Done it too wet, done it too dry, and seen it done right.  And as I said a couple times, I grow MS and clones side by side and have never had a clone culture showing superior results.

Shaper and Fish, those are my feelings too.  Get it clean and run it.  Just always read about how clones are the ticket to solid canopies, high yields, and consistent potency.  So did a lot of culture work, and wasn’t impressed...:shrug:  so that’s why I asked.  Looking for some testimonials from folks that have success!




Clone


Same variety
MS


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Offlinetryptkaloids
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Edmunter]
    #26172351 - 09/06/19 11:13 AM (4 years, 4 months ago)

Clones can be just as much of a crapshoot as MS. You Gotta weed out the bad ones


--------------------
"Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage
Flowchart for Recommended plan of action.
Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms
Use the Damn search engine
After you know what you're doing, take a break 
Pick a book, Make some chips!
Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
 


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Offlinejunk_f00d
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Edmunter]
    #26172354 - 09/06/19 11:15 AM (4 years, 4 months ago)

So when gearing up to do hundreds of isolates for testing, what's the best way to test them? It's infeasible for me to run hundreds of monotubs and thousands of mason jars (and wasteful even if it was feasible). Is spawning a quart jar to 8x4 disposable foil trays a good idea? IS it worth downsizing to pint jars or smaller just for isolate testing purposes? I couldn't find teks on this so if someone wants to link me that'd be great! Nothing like great, well written advice from the veterans :mushroom2:


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Offlinetryptkaloids
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: junk_f00d]
    #26172362 - 09/06/19 11:17 AM (4 years, 4 months ago)

Look up invitro grows like the v tek, pasty's straw recipe, and muda bottles. Those are all decent clone testers


--------------------
"Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage
Flowchart for Recommended plan of action.
Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms
Use the Damn search engine
After you know what you're doing, take a break 
Pick a book, Make some chips!
Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
 


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Offlineverum subsequentis
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: junk_f00d]
    #26172363 - 09/06/19 11:18 AM (4 years, 4 months ago)

I doubt you have hundreds of isolates but.... anywho. If you want to test a bunch of cultures, I'd say go with shoeboxes. I have around 20 different cultures in shoes at the moment. I throw as many shoes as can fit into monotubs and then just treat them the same as a tub.


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Offlinetryptkaloids
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: tryptkaloids]
    #26172366 - 09/06/19 11:19 AM (4 years, 4 months ago)

:lol: :whathesaid:


--------------------
"Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage
Flowchart for Recommended plan of action.
Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms
Use the Damn search engine
After you know what you're doing, take a break 
Pick a book, Make some chips!
Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
 


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