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Sherlock Shrooms
Neophyte



Registered: 06/25/19
Posts: 606
Loc: Under the Sun
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bodhisatta]
#26098124 - 07/09/19 12:49 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: Im concerned about people who can't get every kind of spawn grain to work well. What are you missing on the other kinds of grain you think is good if not that then have you always been insufficiency sterilizing. Then again i think some people are like fuck oats just because I exist and say i like them 
Pasty, Eatyoualive, and many others have attested to certain batches or brands of grains being problematic. In the threads discussing it, and my experience with it, the picture I got is that some crops are sprayed with endospores making the endospore count so high on the dried grains that bacteria shows up pretty quickly in grain jars. Pasty even did 2 separate PC cycles to try and knock it out. Organic grains seem more prone to it, and if you're unlucky and the bag of grains didn't sit for a long time before you purchase or use it then the endospore count will still be pretty high. Switching from organic rye to conventional oats made a big improvement in my grows
-------------------- "When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned, Nor shall the flame scorch you."

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gizmo1



Registered: 06/15/11
Posts: 3,831
Loc: FREEDOM
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Quote:
Sherlock Shrooms said: It seems a bunch of folks like wheat. I was having serious bacterial issues with rye athough it was organic rye. In the same run I made some spawn with oats and some with rye and all the tubs with rye contamed fast, I could see the wetspot in all those jars. I think the crop was just treated with endospores before harvest and I purchased it shortly after. Are wheatberries not prone to these problems? I suppose making sure its conventional may help avoid it. I could get wheatberries super cheap. More inoculation points too
If you can get them super cheap id suggest you try them out. Ive used plenty of wheat berries and never had a problem with them. Who knows you might like them and if not... well... no harm no foul?
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ShaperDreaming
Weirdo



Registered: 10/30/18
Posts: 3,429
Loc: United States
Last seen: 2 years, 3 days
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Quote:
SunnyDayze said:
Quote:
gizmo1 said:
Quote:
Boogieman47 said:
yeah oats suck always made me question my spawn I believe its due to the hull and maybe being more starchy leading the myc to look like that I switched to wheat and will never again use oats
I fucks with wheat but cant find it anywhere. Especially at a decent price im going to be usimg oats for the first time I like how they are uniform like wheat and rye. Ill see how i like them after I burn through this 120#s of them I got if I dont love them by then ill be looking for a good source of wheat.
I just bought 200# of oats yesterday for $72. I finally found rye and wheat after searching but the same amount would be $240. I’ll keep using oats for now lol
This is my reason for using Oats. I'd have to pay 2+ times as much for most other grains. For the few times oats haven't worked out well for me I know it was very much my fault. Most other grains also require more annoying prep work. I've never had problems with oats, especially once they're sterilized. That jar's question-ability for me had nothing to do with the oats.
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van hatton
Still a noob


Registered: 11/23/14
Posts: 5,617
Loc: Michigan
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bodhisatta]
#26098151 - 07/09/19 01:09 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: Im concerned about people who can't get every kind of spawn grain to work well. What are you missing on the other kinds of grain you think is good if not that then have you always been insufficiency sterilizing. Then again i think some people are like fuck oats just because I exist and say i like them 
My rye. That's all.
Here's the last bag if wheat i got that pushed me over the edge 
-------------------- If I ever give out misinformation please inform me so I can have the correct information. Tmethyl said: Chuck Norris once roundhouse kicked a monotub that wasn't pinning fast enough. The force of the kick rearranged the genetics of the mushrooms, we now call them Penis Envy. Caps McGee said:
Fun part is figuring out what works best for you
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Sherlock Shrooms
Neophyte



Registered: 06/25/19
Posts: 606
Loc: Under the Sun
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: van hatton]
#26098164 - 07/09/19 01:16 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Holy cow thats messy stuff. I like that oats don't need to be rinsed and never clump at least for me.
-------------------- "When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned, Nor shall the flame scorch you."

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k5hd2y
Depersonalized & Complete


Registered: 04/13/17
Posts: 675
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: van hatton]
#26098167 - 07/09/19 01:16 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Is that rocks and all chaff?
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van hatton
Still a noob


Registered: 11/23/14
Posts: 5,617
Loc: Michigan
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Yeah that's why I'm fucking with oats now.
And no it's wheat bran
-------------------- If I ever give out misinformation please inform me so I can have the correct information. Tmethyl said: Chuck Norris once roundhouse kicked a monotub that wasn't pinning fast enough. The force of the kick rearranged the genetics of the mushrooms, we now call them Penis Envy. Caps McGee said:
Fun part is figuring out what works best for you
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gizmo1



Registered: 06/15/11
Posts: 3,831
Loc: FREEDOM
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Quote:
ShaperDreaming said:
Quote:
SunnyDayze said:
Quote:
gizmo1 said:
Quote:
Boogieman47 said:
yeah oats suck always made me question my spawn I believe its due to the hull and maybe being more starchy leading the myc to look like that I switched to wheat and will never again use oats
I fucks with wheat but cant find it anywhere. Especially at a decent price im going to be usimg oats for the first time I like how they are uniform like wheat and rye. Ill see how i like them after I burn through this 120#s of them I got if I dont love them by then ill be looking for a good source of wheat.
I just bought 200# of oats yesterday for $72. I finally found rye and wheat after searching but the same amount would be $240. I’ll keep using oats for now lol
This is my reason for using Oats. I'd have to pay 2+ times as much for most other grains. For the few times oats haven't worked out well for me I know it was very much my fault. Most other grains also require more annoying prep work. I've never had problems with oats, especially once they're sterilized. That jar's question-ability for me had nothing to do with the oats.
Nothing wrong with using oats if you like them im going to be using them for my first time so idk if I like them yet. I know one thing I bought the "cleaned" oats that are supposed to be less dusty. I call bullshit lol dustiest grains ive ever dealt with and I grew up on a farm dealing with alot of feed grains lol.
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FiatFirmamentum
Stranger


Registered: 04/15/19
Posts: 59
Loc: Central EU
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Quote:
Sherlock Shrooms said: It seems a bunch of folks like wheat. I was having serious bacterial issues with rye athough it was organic rye. In the same run I made some spawn with oats and some with rye and all the tubs with rye contamed fast, I could see the wetspot in all those jars. I think the crop was just treated with endospores before harvest and I purchased it shortly after. Are wheatberries not prone to these problems? I suppose making sure its conventional may help avoid it. I could get wheatberries super cheap. More inoculation points too
That doesn't sound as legit explanation. Medical grade sterilization is controlled using biological indicators - we put lots of spores of Geobacillus into capsule and run sterillization cycle. If spores don't grow, sterilization was successful. If your grains ever got contaminated without opening, you didn't achieve high enough temperature inside of grain jar for long enough - chance that anything will survive professional sterilization are one to million.
Of course, certain exceptions exist, but archaeans able to survive sterilization will go dormant under 70*C, because it's too cold for them.
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Boogieman47
Let's boogie


Registered: 03/05/16
Posts: 9,712
Loc: Under your bed
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I used oats for over a year probably atleast a ton of them maybe even more I just dont like how the myc looks I deleted the pictures but had side by sides of wheat to oats and the wheat looked way better ... I grew lots of shrooms with oats but it's just the way it looks that I dont like ...
I get wheat for 13$ oats are actually more here 17$ milk is 11 and millet is like 15 ..
I been good Nate just chillin trying to stay safe in this crazy life Haha what baout you man ??
Giz sometimes you gotta ask for recleaned wheat or something like that when I asked for whole wheat they looked at me lime I was dumb it literally took 10 minutes for then ti be like oh you mean recleaned wheat ?? I was like seriously what's the fucking difference Haha.. I would talk to a manager at your feed shop
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Sherlock Shrooms
Neophyte



Registered: 06/25/19
Posts: 606
Loc: Under the Sun
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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We are not doing professional sterilization in PC's. A more accurate term would be minimization. Bacterial endospores survive even at 20 psi for 3 hours. This is why one should use a large amount of inoculant so that cube myc can completely colonize the jar in as short a time as possible, if 3 weQuote:
FiatFirmamentum said:
Quote:
Sherlock Shrooms said: It seems a bunch of folks like wheat. I was having serious bacterial issues with rye athough it was organic rye. In the same run I made some spawn with oats and some with rye and all the tubs with rye contamed fast, I could see the wetspot in all those jars. I think the crop was just treated with endospores before harvest and I purchased it shortly after. Are wheatberries not prone to these problems? I suppose making sure its conventional may help avoid it. I could get wheatberries super cheap. More inoculation points too
That doesn't sound as legit explanation. Medical grade sterilization is controlled using biological indicators - we put lots of spores of Geobacillus into capsule and run sterillization cycle. If spores don't grow, sterilization was successful. If your grains ever got contaminated without opening, you didn't achieve high enough temperature inside of grain jar for long enough - chance that anything will survive professional sterilization are one to million.
Of course, certain exceptions exist, but archaeans able to survive sterilization will go dormant under 70*C, because it's too cold for them.
We are not doing professional sterilization in PC's. A more accurate term would be minimization. Bacterial endospores survive even at 20 psi for 3 hours. This is why you should use a large amount of inoculant so that cube myc can completely colonize the jar in as short a time as possible, if 3 weeks pass before the grains are fully colonized you may run into bacterial issues. They were there all along. So the higher the endospore count to begin with the more you may end up with at the end
-------------------- "When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned, Nor shall the flame scorch you."

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Boogieman47
Let's boogie


Registered: 03/05/16
Posts: 9,712
Loc: Under your bed
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Yeah our PC wont cook shit off that's why I call it pastuerizing our grain Haha but yeah I notice I am getting more bacteria in my jars lately and I have been making sure the agar is super clean .. it would be crazy to get some heat immune bacteria after all this time we would be fucked there is some bacillus from Morocco I think that can withstand like 700 farenheit or some crazy temp like that
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van hatton
Still a noob


Registered: 11/23/14
Posts: 5,617
Loc: Michigan
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Boogieman47]
#26098290 - 07/09/19 02:26 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Jars probably just have hella condensation giving bacteria an environment bloom.
Fuck summer I hate fighting the heat. Way easier to deal with cold.
-------------------- If I ever give out misinformation please inform me so I can have the correct information. Tmethyl said: Chuck Norris once roundhouse kicked a monotub that wasn't pinning fast enough. The force of the kick rearranged the genetics of the mushrooms, we now call them Penis Envy. Caps McGee said:
Fun part is figuring out what works best for you
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Quote:
Sherlock Shrooms said:
Quote:
bodhisatta said: Im concerned about people who can't get every kind of spawn grain to work well. What are you missing on the other kinds of grain you think is good if not that then have you always been insufficiency sterilizing. Then again i think some people are like fuck oats just because I exist and say i like them 
Pasty, Eatyoualive, and many others have attested to certain batches or brands of grains being problematic. In the threads discussing it, and my experience with it, the picture I got is that some crops are sprayed with endospores making the endospore count so high on the dried grains that bacteria shows up pretty quickly in grain jars. Pasty even did 2 separate PC cycles to try and knock it out. Organic grains seem more prone to it, and if you're unlucky and the bag of grains didn't sit for a long time before you purchase or use it then the endospore count will still be pretty high. Switching from organic rye to conventional oats made a big improvement in my grows
Time doesn't kill endospores they're made to survive decades of inappropriate conditions. The endospores are endogenous to the grain. All plants have endophytes. Endospores are very easily killed by sterilization. That's the point of sterilization to kill hardened non-vegitative cells. Almost all vegitative growth dies at 170F only hardened survival structures like spores survive above that for the most part.
One of these days I'll try to buy some of those autoclave validation packs that are loaded with literally billions of endospores and load some into the middle of grain jars. But until then I'm pretty adamant sufficient sterilization makes all endospore worries absolutely irrelevant
Next time someone gets bacterial grain and also owns a scope it would be worth it to see if the bacteria that is growing is even a endospore forming one. Because if it isn't it came from you definitively
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Boogieman47
Let's boogie


Registered: 03/05/16
Posts: 9,712
Loc: Under your bed
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: van hatton]
#26098298 - 07/09/19 02:28 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yeah for sure my tubs need to be dialed alot more, and watched due to my ac going so much it's a small room so the air blows hard it's just a little wall unit but in a 12 x 16 area it can do some fae damage Haha..
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ShaperDreaming
Weirdo



Registered: 10/30/18
Posts: 3,429
Loc: United States
Last seen: 2 years, 3 days
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: van hatton]
#26098299 - 07/09/19 02:29 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
van hatton said: Jars probably just have hella condensation giving bacteria an environment bloom.
Fuck summer I hate fighting the heat. Way easier to deal with cold.
Yup, also summer promotes general mold spores in the air. So condensation/heat invites bacteria, summer/heat excites mold spores in the air.
Fuck mush cult is so much easier in the fall/early winter.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Still heat and moisture don't create bacteria they only help it out if it's already there
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van hatton
Still a noob


Registered: 11/23/14
Posts: 5,617
Loc: Michigan
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bodhisatta]
#26098312 - 07/09/19 02:35 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said:
Quote:
Sherlock Shrooms said:
Quote:
bodhisatta said: Im concerned about people who can't get every kind of spawn grain to work well. What are you missing on the other kinds of grain you think is good if not that then have you always been insufficiency sterilizing. Then again i think some people are like fuck oats just because I exist and say i like them 
Pasty, Eatyoualive, and many others have attested to certain batches or brands of grains being problematic. In the threads discussing it, and my experience with it, the picture I got is that some crops are sprayed with endospores making the endospore count so high on the dried grains that bacteria shows up pretty quickly in grain jars. Pasty even did 2 separate PC cycles to try and knock it out. Organic grains seem more prone to it, and if you're unlucky and the bag of grains didn't sit for a long time before you purchase or use it then the endospore count will still be pretty high. Switching from organic rye to conventional oats made a big improvement in my grows
Time doesn't kill endospores they're made to survive decades of inappropriate conditions. The endospores are endogenous to the grain. All plants have endophytes. Endospores are very easily killed by sterilization. That's the point of sterilization to kill hardened non-vegitative cells. Almost all vegitative growth dies at 170F only hardened survival structures like spores survive above that for the most part.
One of these days I'll try to buy some of those autoclave validation packs that are loaded with literally billions of endospores and load some into the middle of grain jars. But until then I'm pretty adamant sufficient sterilization makes all endospore worries absolutely irrelevant
Next time someone gets bacterial grain and also owns a scope it would be worth it to see if the bacteria that is growing is even a endospore forming one. Because if it isn't it came from you definitively
In a perfect world sure.
Science can say anything it wants but real world applications is where it matters.
If your having constant failure then switch grains and you start killing pretty good chance it was the grain and not you
In those studies they are not sterilizing grain they are doing those individual bacteria.
Edit: you fucker ninja editted before I could respond.
-------------------- If I ever give out misinformation please inform me so I can have the correct information. Tmethyl said: Chuck Norris once roundhouse kicked a monotub that wasn't pinning fast enough. The force of the kick rearranged the genetics of the mushrooms, we now call them Penis Envy. Caps McGee said:
Fun part is figuring out what works best for you
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: van hatton]
#26098324 - 07/09/19 02:41 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Canned meat exists. Im sure that's probably one of the more difficult things to sterilize.
My buddy took over my old place. Using the same equipment, same residence, same grain, and my cultures. And has been failing miserably for months in a row.
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ShaperDreaming
Weirdo



Registered: 10/30/18
Posts: 3,429
Loc: United States
Last seen: 2 years, 3 days
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bodhisatta]
#26098331 - 07/09/19 02:44 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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