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InvisibleCaps McGee
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Re: ******NEED HELP***** [Re: TheNoob406] * 1
    #26017626 - 05/28/19 05:40 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Light isn't a pinning trigger  (for cubensis), only full colonization and evaporation... 24hr light isn't natural: for natural results, provide natural conditions?  :shrug:

Don't change thread titles


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Cultivation general discussion [Re: TheNoob406]
    #26017791 - 05/28/19 08:19 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

TheNoob406 said:
So in my FC I left my light on 24/7 to start pinning and when I did achieve this I had swollen stems and small caps. I’m currently going to do 12/12 on them will this help get them back to normal I’m new to taxonomy and some guided wisdom from and expert would be much appreciated!!



Good conditions will help them get normal. Build a proper FC and Don't skip steps of the PF tek.


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Invisiblestareatclouds
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Re: Cultivation general discussion [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26018087 - 05/28/19 11:06 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

LtLurker said:
Quote:

Caps McGee said:
I believe one of the largest benefits of using brf is that it is fairly resistant to contaminants when compared to other grains.



i think that only applies to pf-jars, not just the flour itself.




*clunks your heads together like Moe*

You're both kind of right, I reckon, but "resistant" wouldn't be the right word. BRF will get fucked up in shitty conditions like anything else. The jars for PF Tek are "safer" for noobs because you shoot through the verm barrier in a tiny hole which is easier than what we do. This perk wouldn't change if BRF was swapped out for something else, but the likelihood of them reaching acceptable sterilization would.

But from what I've always understood, BRF itself is a much "safer" substrate (what's good, Caps) because brown rice has less/no endospores to begin with. This was always promoted by RR, but I've never seen it confirmed anywhere and I think he might've stopped saying it as much in more recent times. I would tend to believe it since you can steam BRF jars successfully, which I did in my attempt.

Regardless, I think the difference comes with it being floured. Brown rice flour is ground down and pulverized and since the flour is a homogenous substrate comprised of tiny particles, it's easier to kill endospores in the PC cycle. As opposed to our bulky grains and air pockets and all that shit.


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OfflineLtLurker
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Re: Cultivation general discussion [Re: stareatclouds]
    #26018121 - 05/28/19 11:23 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

That last part is what I understand makes it viable for steam sterilizing, Because you're dealing with flour instead of whole grains and all the reasons you said.

I thought the 2/3rds verm is adding something to the "contam resistant" property, making it a harder substrate for contams to compete with Mycellium on.

I get the dry verm makes it a little more fool-proof to innoc, but even when sterile tek is good, grain jars contam out more often(or atleast contam worse) than pf jars made with the same syringe ime. I don't really think that's the major factor that makes it perform better with syringes.

/e I'm also unsure about the endo spore being lower on rice being the main factor. If you try to make whole brown rice like a grain jar, it seems to contam as easily as any other grain jar. Although it's possible on the little attempts i did and seen something else could be at play.


Edited by LtLurker (05/28/19 11:26 AM)


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Invisiblestareatclouds
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Re: Cultivation general discussion [Re: LtLurker]
    #26018131 - 05/28/19 11:28 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

I don't think it makes it a harder substrate to compete with. That's essentially what pasteurizing does with manure or something. What it does is separate that nutritious substrate from the contaminants as a barrier. Dry verm itself isn't going to contam, it'll just collect whatever shit falls through and the BRF is protected. That's why you wash and scrape off the verm after birthing.

RR says people make WBS and rye flour for PF Tek and can't do it with steaming only, fwiw.

I honestly don't know shit about inoculating spores in a grain jar as I've never done it. But I would assume the failure rates can be partially explained by the better sterilization with BRF, probably the jars, and more importantly, squirting a bajillion spores into a fluffy, aerated and nutritious substrate is much more optimal than slick grains. Faster germination and growth = smaller window for bad shit to come for the gold, sucka.

Similarly, that's why many folks add something to their grains for texture when using liquids. They "catch" and begin germinating quicker than when they pool on the bottom and slide around.


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OfflineLtLurker
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Re: Cultivation general discussion [Re: stareatclouds]
    #26018167 - 05/28/19 11:44 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

I'm a little confused on the first bit and think we may have a little misunderstanding. I understand how the dry verm filter works, that's not where I'm confused/curious.

I'm more focused on the mixture below the dry layer and wonder why cakes fail less than 1/10(with dry verm layer or filter lid) while grain jars with same syringes will crap out 1/3.
If it was just about endo spores and nature of brown rice, wouldn't jars of sterile brf(or just whole rice) have a contam rate more akin to cake's 1/10, instead of grain jar's 1/3?

Interesting on the wbs and rye flour. I have tried grinding oats and that didn't really work for cakes either.

/e to accommodate your edit.
Hmm, so you think it's mainly just faster/better germination because it's coarse and getting a jump up on competition? Good angle, fits.

I really don't think it's better sterilization at all. You put a clean plate into sterilized grains and you don't have problems. If it was about imperfectly sterilized grains with higher endo spore count, shouldn't it contam how ever you inoculate it, or atleast show mild contamination.


Edited by LtLurker (05/28/19 11:49 AM)


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Invisiblestareatclouds
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Re: Cultivation general discussion [Re: LtLurker]
    #26018188 - 05/28/19 11:57 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

It's not only about endospores and sterilization (spore syringes are dirty anyway). As I said, the conditions are the major difference and one is most optimal for rapid germination and the others less so. Without verm, which helps with water retention and texture, I'd expect a different result. Shit, IIRC, you get a completely different texture if you mess up the order you mix the water into PF Tek.

Similarly, you don't pack down the substrate in the jar because it'll make it tougher for the mycelium to freely colonize and eat. Only BRF sucks. My Stropharia syringes I made, first try, all had bacteria on the plates I tested them on. All colonized BRF jars fine, though. Being able to shoot a bunch of spores into favorable conditions gives an advantage. Straight BRF or grain is not equal to PF Tek recipe. Just like my oat jars reach full colonization a full few days slower than the jars I throw ground dog food in. :smile:


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Cultivation general discussion [Re: stareatclouds]
    #26018224 - 05/28/19 12:18 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

I think you could use any kind of grain flour and PF cakes by virtue of their design and consistency will not go bad as often as grain jars if both were inoculated with the same spore syringe. Endospores may not like to germinate in cakes. Or if it does it has no way of spreading as easily.


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OfflineLtLurker
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Re: Cultivation general discussion [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26018249 - 05/28/19 12:30 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

So we're right back around to the texture of a cake(2/3 verm) being the more plausible driver of the different results? I think we've made it full circle on this one. :lol:
Thanks for batting this around.

And yes for sure mixing it wrong order will fuck up your cakes. Water and flour makes dough, you wind up with a weird, sticky, balling mixture if you don't mix water & verm first before adding flour.


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OfflineShaperDreaming
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Re: Cultivation general discussion [Re: LtLurker] * 3
    #26018331 - 05/28/19 01:00 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Hey ya'll. I've been working on some parts of a larger TEK I plan to put together. I've posted them in some smaller threads, but thought I'd get a larger pool of people to look at these and see if you wanted to comment and give advice on it.

SFF Oat Prep and Storage TEK
SFF Shoebox Assembly TEK

Thanks!

I have plans to put together a coir prep and an agar tek as well soon, then I'll compile it all into a larger TEK for start-to-finish set-and-forget shoebox teks. So right now things are still in-progress, hence me keeping them as journals for the moment.


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Offlinebutterflyaway
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: ShaperDreaming]
    #26018464 - 05/28/19 02:08 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

So, I’ve had a great first flush with this new batch of shoeboxes I just harvested delivering almost 700 grams wet with 8 cakes.  Could be better, I’m still learning.  But I have encountered fruit that just doesn’t fully mature.  I’ve been waiting for this fruit to mature since this weekend.  It seems like the spores have dropped inside the veil.  What should I do?  Harvest or wait? Does it matter at this point? Why does this happen? Anyone know?

 

My harvest.

     


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Offlineibuprofemin
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: butterflyaway]
    #26018859 - 05/28/19 04:44 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

If you were to put agar wedges from two different varieties of cubensis in a grain jar, would you just end up with kinda a half and half mix of either?


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InvisibleJ. Jack Flash
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: J. Jack Flash]
    #26018927 - 05/28/19 05:17 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

J. Jack Flash said:
... if i find it i'll post up.




apparently i was a much more credulous fool just a few short years ago. i reckon this is what i was thinking of: https://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_article10.shtml

"In the 1980s, German mycologist Dr. Jochen Gartz, went so far as to file a patent (No. 88-09773, Akad. Wiss. DDR) on brown rice after his discovery that this medium supported the cultivation of P. cubensis of unprecedented potency--1% psilocybin/psilocin by dry weight (which almost equals Panaeolus cyanescens), the highest natural potency ever reported of this mushroom."

a fairly lengthy search thru thegooglemachine last night yielded no substantiating evidence or research on the topic. so true or not, this is the only source i can find. i might have a look thru the journals on the university library access.

carry on.


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OfflineFailboat
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: J. Jack Flash]
    #26018974 - 05/28/19 05:41 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

I have a monotub which shows no signs of contamination except just on the surface where there seems to be trich spores, but no real myc. I'm a bit perplexed and rather annoyed. I spawned it with a top layer.


Edited by Failboat (05/28/19 05:47 PM)


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InvisibleJ. Jack Flash
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Failboat]
    #26018978 - 05/28/19 05:42 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

it look like super fine white threads?


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OfflineFailboat
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: J. Jack Flash]
    #26019054 - 05/28/19 06:18 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

No, just a little green on the top of the dark coir top layer. The bottom looks fine, cube myc, which has broken the surface in two small spots with no green.


Edited by Failboat (05/28/19 06:22 PM)


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OfflineShineonyoucrazy
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Failboat]
    #26019149 - 05/28/19 06:59 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Just tossing the idea out to see if there is any interest in it.  Its an aa925 pressure cooker and also the conversion to turn it into a sterilizer.  Only issue it has is has discoloration inside on the bottom from using Mason jar rings to raise the trivet. Looking to get $175 + shipping cost, but I'm open to offers.  Sorry it's kinda dusty, I've had it in storage. I'll have to clean it up nice and shiney and take some new pics. PM me if interested



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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Failboat] * 1
    #26019300 - 05/28/19 08:17 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Quirkmeister92 said:
No, just a little green on the top of the dark coir top layer. The bottom looks fine, cube myc, which has broken the surface in two small spots with no green.





that entire top layer as that snow dusted trichy myc look to it.


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InvisibleCaps McGee
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy]
    #26019316 - 05/28/19 08:21 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Shineonyoucrazy said:
Just tossing the idea out to see if there is any interest in it.  Its an aa925 pressure cooker and also the conversion to turn it into a sterilizer.  Only issue it has is has discoloration inside on the bottom from using Mason jar rings to raise the trivet. Looking to get $175  shipping cost, but I'm open to offers.  Sorry it's kinda dusty, I've had it in storage. I'll have to clean it up nice and shiney and take some new pics. PM me if interested






Maybe better suited for marketplace?
Quote:

mushboy said:
that entire top layer as that snow dusted trichy myc look to it.



:whathesaid:


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Edited by Caps McGee (05/28/19 08:28 PM)


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Offlinevinnie boombotz
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Caps McGee]
    #26019345 - 05/28/19 08:30 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Sprouting these seed mixtures before adding the mycelium inoculant does not just take seemingly hard, impervious encapsulated seeds and turn them into softer, accessible sprouts, although that is indeed part of the advantage of sprouting in the mushroom growth context. Germination also biochemically removes barriers to bioavailability of the desirable seed constituents, such as the undesirable phytic acid or other antinutrients such as enzyme inhibitors, by hydrolyzing them as part of the sprouting phenomenon. Germinating the seeds or grains that make up the mushroom growth medium was disclosed in U.S. Published Patent Application No. 20150305249, and yet even that excellent method is still susceptible of further improvement.

https://patents.justia.com/patent/20180000013

I can't find any info on using germinated seeds, except for this patent. Has anyone tried this, or read anything more about it?


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