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J. Jack Flash
stranger than ever.

Registered: 11/20/13
Posts: 1,500
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bodhisatta]
#25999561 - 05/18/19 09:20 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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re: agar sterility
i do no pour. i do vent.
however. sometimes i have a little agar solution left when pouring plates. sometimes i put this into pint zipjars and microwave them for two minutes. they boil vigorously. they don't contaminate in storage. i mostly use zipjars for germination plates, so they're likely to contaminate in use.
i reckon there are about zero bacterial endospores in agar powder, lme, or tap water, so simple boiling is probably sufficient for agar solution. could be wrong.
also, i am deffo retarded.
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the j stands for jesus.2020 new years grow along
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stareatclouds
star eat clouds?



Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 9,887
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: dmppb]
#25999565 - 05/18/19 09:22 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Aye,
Why would you throw out the grain?
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AyePlus
Stony Danza



Registered: 12/18/14
Posts: 3,393
Loc: Fairfield, Connecticut
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Because its been pressure cooked for three hours, running it for another 3 hours would carmelize it, itβll still grow mushrooms but it takes almost twice as long to colonize IME. Iβve done it becore and it was a bad idea, now I just feed it to red wigglers.
I also only run grain once a week and if it sat until the next run it would surely contaminate.
-------------------- Learn about breeding
  C10βs agar guide Good surface conditions = Good pinsets Read more, post less. π
π° πΌ π΄ π
π΄ π° πΌ π
π΄ π° πΌ π² π» πΈ π½ πΆ π
π
π° πΏ
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stareatclouds
star eat clouds?



Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 9,887
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: AyePlus]
#25999592 - 05/18/19 09:35 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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I don't think you need to run it for 3 hours, though. I don't think your horse grain that's been prepped and sterilized for 3 hours reverts back to the original spore load because you dumped the bag open air into a fresh bag/jars. I've had bags burst or become compromised and I tossed them in for an hour and the grain worked. To each their own, though, I can see your schedule not permitting.
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,281
Loc: where?
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: AyePlus]
#25999594 - 05/18/19 09:36 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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your jars mold in a week?
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AyePlus
Stony Danza



Registered: 12/18/14
Posts: 3,393
Loc: Fairfield, Connecticut
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy]
#25999599 - 05/18/19 09:38 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Iβm talking about popped bags, sterilized grain thats sat in open air for a week definitely molds.
Ya stare Iβve thought about it but usually my cookers sit to cool overnight and dont get opened till the next night when I get home from work and by the time I know how many bags failed Iβm usually reasy for bed, not another PC cycle. If it was 6 bags worth Iβd consider but its usually 1-3, i guess I could load them into jars and run but scheduling that is the biggest issue by far. For me making and inoculating bags is a 2-3 day process. Cook + strain grain sat/sun, sterilize sun/mon noc mon/tues.
-------------------- Learn about breeding
  C10βs agar guide Good surface conditions = Good pinsets Read more, post less. π
π° πΌ π΄ π
π΄ π° πΌ π
π΄ π° πΌ π² π» πΈ π½ πΆ π
π
π° πΏ
Edited by AyePlus (05/18/19 09:42 AM)
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stareatclouds
star eat clouds?



Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 9,887
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy]
#25999602 - 05/18/19 09:38 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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I believe he's saying if his bags pop in the PC, they'll be exposed to open air upon discovery, thus more vulnerable. But you could throw a handful of trich into a bag after 3 hours and be fine running it for far less.
But it's preference I guess. I like CVG bags for this.
Right, and those mold spores are killed off way, way before you complete the 6th hour of sterilizing. You have a sterilized batch of grains that has been exposed to your home. I would personally load them into whatever and run them for 45-60 after. Tons of people do 4 hours at once and I've done grain jars twice at 20 hours 20PSI a month or so apart and not caramelized.
I should note I have no numbers on average mold spores in a home (don't think you can know this anyway) or how many endospores or whatever. Anybody feel free to correct me and tell me 3 hours is needed again.
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,281
Loc: where?
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: AyePlus]
#25999605 - 05/18/19 09:39 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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derp
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AyePlus
Stony Danza



Registered: 12/18/14
Posts: 3,393
Loc: Fairfield, Connecticut
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy]
#25999622 - 05/18/19 09:48 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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When I ran them twice before they got dark and colonization took at least a week longer. Grain is cheap and time is $$ so dank ass grain fed worm castings for all my veggies isnβt a total loss. Just wish I could save the bags from popping in the first place, but it doesnt seem to matter how I run them and theres a 60% chance at least one pops. He most successfull method Iβve found so far is using the tall half pint jars full of water and sealed places in the air spaces between the bags. That pushes my chances of a failed bag down to about 30% but they still happen pretty regularly.
-------------------- Learn about breeding
  C10βs agar guide Good surface conditions = Good pinsets Read more, post less. π
π° πΌ π΄ π
π΄ π° πΌ π
π΄ π° πΌ π² π» πΈ π½ πΆ π
π
π° πΏ
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stareatclouds
star eat clouds?



Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 9,887
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: AyePlus]
#25999625 - 05/18/19 09:51 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Right, time is the reason I'd run them for 45-60 and save them. My grain prep takes me quite a while. Do you have pictures on how you're loading your PC? How are you using those 1/2 pints? I'm tired and do not follow.
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sandman420
Saint PP



Registered: 06/17/04
Posts: 5,384
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: AyePlus]
#25999626 - 05/18/19 09:51 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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damn sorry for totally botching your name. I caint reed gud.
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Asura
Cyantist


Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 5,047
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 12 days, 7 minutes
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy]
#25999633 - 05/18/19 09:55 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Can I get in on this discussion? 
I had two bags get holes in the 4 hour run last night. The bags that were good, I wrapped in a thin kitchen towel.
I have to re-run the bags along with some new bags. 12 full quarts of hpoo total.
Is 10 minutes venting enough for all this? It's what I've always done, but I have no idea whether I should adjust up or down and what circumstances dictate that if at all.
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Yesum
Furry as Fuc



Registered: 11/05/12
Posts: 13,124
Loc: Central Part of Town
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Asura]
#25999636 - 05/18/19 09:58 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Oh shit. Congrats man. My bad bro. I didnt see till just now.
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stareatclouds
star eat clouds?



Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 9,887
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Asura]
#25999644 - 05/18/19 10:01 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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All good, sandy. You keep mentioning bags melting, but that was never the issue. The heat making the bags more brittle and slightly damaged was the issue, leading to super tiny pin holes. You don't think the integrity of the bag is changed by longer duration or higher PSI?
Asura,
I usually do 10 minutes, but I just make sure it's a steady stream of stream coming out and not air. It varies on the time. And my gauge will usually be up like 3-5 PSI or so.
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verum subsequentis
seeker of truth



Registered: 03/22/16
Posts: 8,732
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: AyePlus]
#25999649 - 05/18/19 10:04 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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As far as the filter melting to the plastic. I use no foil and have never seen it "melt" to the plastic. I have noticed that one must be careful when unfolding the bags. I guess it might technically be "melted" to the plastic but i haven't found it to be a problem as long as i'm careful not to be rough on it while unfolding.
As far as bags melting to the sides, it never happens in my AA but has happened in my presto. And no, I didn't run out of water or let the flames lap up the sides. I don't know exactly why it happens but have found that placing a wall of foil between the bags and pc walls has stopped it.
As far as pin wholes in bags/ other problems. I sometimes have one bag per run that does something strange and don't know why. My last run had one bag balloon out like a mofo. It's super thin in that spot now and i'm afraid to shake it. I used to use tyvek sleeves but have stopped but I'm thinking about throwing them in this run because it's easy and may just keep that one odd bag from fucking off.
As far as venting goes.... I always properly vent and I see no reason to EVER not do it. Throwing an extra fifteen minutes into a two hour project is not an issue for me.
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Asura
Cyantist


Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 5,047
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 12 days, 7 minutes
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Thanks stare! It's always a steady stream for sure. My guage does the same. And things start sounding pretty intense, too.
I would love to figure out how to run more than 4 of these bags, but I'm not gonna lie...I'm chicken
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sandman420
Saint PP



Registered: 06/17/04
Posts: 5,384
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Yesum]
#25999656 - 05/18/19 10:09 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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10-15 minutes venting is plenty for bags.
Pinholes or blowouts in the bottom corners can be caused from stacking too much weight on the bags. They do best if you can possibly keep them one level high with nothing on top. When they bags get to 250 degrees they don't melt but they are very very soft and easy to puncture or rip. Lots of weight expands the bags out and can cause the bottom corners to rupture. Were the bags that were good on top of the bad ones?
That's not the only cause though. The trivet that the bag sits on can be a problem from the same principle. Super hot bags are soft. If it is is somehow pinched against a particularly sharp edge in just the right way it can cause a hole. Weight on top compressing it hard against a sharp part of the trivet and it's even worse.
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AyePlus
Stony Danza



Registered: 12/18/14
Posts: 3,393
Loc: Fairfield, Connecticut
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Quote:
stareatclouds said: Right, time is the reason I'd run them for 45-60 and save them. My grain prep takes me quite a while. Do you have pictures on how you're loading your PC? How are you using those 1/2 pints? I'm tired and do not follow.
Iβll take pics next time. But I put 6 bags total, two bags and two tall half pints per layer, I use jar rings under the trivet, but not between bags or bags/cooker. The bags have a space between them on the short side of the bag, into these spaces I put the half pint jars. My thought is it fills the space the bags would expand into and pop, and it also provides more mass so the cooker cools slower.
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sandman420
Saint PP



Registered: 06/17/04
Posts: 5,384
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: sandman420]
#25999661 - 05/18/19 10:11 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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It's perfectly normal for there to be some/lots of distortion of the bags but it shouldn't be brittle at all or have any holes so you must have been close to melting temp.
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Asura
Cyantist


Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 5,047
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 12 days, 7 minutes
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: sandman420]
#25999666 - 05/18/19 10:14 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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@sandman
Yep, the good bags were on top. I have two trivets, though. I stack jar lids on the bottom, put a trivet on top of that with a layer of bags, then put the second trivet on top of that with the final layer of bags. Then I set a plate on top of that. If I don't have some weight on the bags, sometimes it looks like Bigfoot went in there and kicked the shit out of everything.
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