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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
verum subsequentis said: pasty, you use foil on your spawn bags? How so? That confuses me.
I do bags all the time without sleeves. I accordion fold the bottom three bags just to keep the water from traveling up the bag and the next two layers of bags just get nicely rolled. I can explain that better if you wish.
I can't say whether or not the sleeve is needed though because i cool and download my pc in front of the flow. I can say that i nicely folded bag does seem to seal up rather well though.
Just tear off a piece of foil. Fold it so it just wide enough to fit in the bag opening and slide it down as a barrier between the filter patch and the other side of the bag. Basically pretend it’s a tyvek sleeve made out of foil. I do that because a couple times the patch was stuck to the opposite side of the bag and I’m worried about pinholes or tears.
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Legend21
Legend



Registered: 04/27/18
Posts: 1,148
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Pastywhyte]
#25997977 - 05/17/19 01:21 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Can you do bags without a Flow Hood?
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Doc9151
Mycologist



Registered: 02/23/17
Posts: 13,753
Loc: Gulf Coast USA
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Failboat]
#25997986 - 05/17/19 01:23 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Quirkmeister92 said: How does the seal hold up? Is it gonna get stuck and then wrecked when opened like the 2 piece?
I've been using the same 2 piece lids for 2yrs now, minus a few tossed in the trash due to rust. The lid should be used upside down in the band, use tyvek for filters.
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  Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593
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stareatclouds
star eat clouds?



Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 9,887
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Legend21]
#25998277 - 05/17/19 04:19 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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I'm currently still trying to get my bag sterilization process optimized. I'm winding up with pin holes more often than I'd like. I have the inside of the PC wrapped in foil, as well as the trivets. Try not to exceed 15PSI or let the PC run dry. I'm always worried the bags expanding into the rings will mess with them. Overall it looks like only the top row of 2 bags gets messed up.
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sandman420
Saint PP



Registered: 06/17/04
Posts: 5,384
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There is no need to wrap the inside of your PC with anything at all. The only reason a bag will melt from touching the sides is if you run out of water or use an enourmously oversised propane cooker that laps over the sides. The pinholes can be from a few things but being in contact with wrinkled up foil while soft and hot could do it.
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stareatclouds
star eat clouds?



Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 9,887
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Quote:
verum subsequentis said: pasty, you use foil on your spawn bags? How so? That confuses me.
I do bags all the time without sleeves. I accordion fold the bottom three bags just to keep the water from traveling up the bag and the next two layers of bags just get nicely rolled. I can explain that better if you wish.
I can't say whether or not the sleeve is needed though because i cool and download my pc in front of the flow. I can say that i nicely folded bag does seem to seal up rather well though.
The foil provides the barrier between the filter patch and plastic that the Tyvek sleeve did.
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sandman420
Saint PP



Registered: 06/17/04
Posts: 5,384
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Ok but why? There is no need for that.
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SunnyDayze
Finder of shrubberies



Registered: 12/30/17
Posts: 2,230
Loc: Canada
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Legend21]
#25998726 - 05/17/19 08:34 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Legend21 said: Can you do bags without a Flow Hood?
Yes. You have a higher chance of contam but it can be done. Are you talking G2G? If so just raise up your SAB some way. I used coir bricks on edge and put a garbage bag over then placed the SAB on it. Wasn’t perfect as the bricks weren’t exactly the same but it worked, got 4 or 5 extra inches in height lol

If you are using LI or LC then it’s easy.
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dmppb
On course


Registered: 11/11/11
Posts: 1,043
Loc: universe
Last seen: 2 months, 17 days
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: SunnyDayze]
#25998762 - 05/17/19 08:54 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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question ;
you vent your pc's for sterilizing liquids ( agar ) ? if so , how long ?
-------------------- ...and when you loose control ; you'll reap the harvest you have sown.
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SunnyDayze
Finder of shrubberies



Registered: 12/30/17
Posts: 2,230
Loc: Canada
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: dmppb]
#25998767 - 05/17/19 08:58 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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dmppb
On course


Registered: 11/11/11
Posts: 1,043
Loc: universe
Last seen: 2 months, 17 days
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: SunnyDayze]
#25998808 - 05/17/19 09:29 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
SunnyDayze said: Vent every time. And this is a good read.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=2&Number=25493951&PHPSESSID=&fpart=1#25493951
yeah , i'm just worried about caramelizing my sugars , i started venting my pcs not that long ago , just checking
-------------------- ...and when you loose control ; you'll reap the harvest you have sown.
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SunnyDayze
Finder of shrubberies



Registered: 12/30/17
Posts: 2,230
Loc: Canada
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: dmppb]
#25998819 - 05/17/19 09:35 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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I vent for 20 minutes, manual says 10 but found my jars were contaminating. All good since I upped my vent time.
Even with agar or lc I vent for 20 and pc for 25-30. I haven’t had any trouble with caramelization but I don’t crank it on high either to heat up or vent.
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dmppb
On course


Registered: 11/11/11
Posts: 1,043
Loc: universe
Last seen: 2 months, 17 days
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: SunnyDayze]
#25998879 - 05/17/19 10:31 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
SunnyDayze said: I vent for 20 minutes, manual says 10 but found my jars were contaminating. All good since I upped my vent time.
Even with agar or lc I vent for 20 and pc for 25-30. I haven’t had any trouble with caramelization but I don’t crank it on high either to heat up or vent.
cool ; what kind of contams , bacteria or mold ? i keep getting bacteria or yellow drops that i think is yeast infection , i vent for 10 minutes , i'll try 20 from now on ,
-------------------- ...and when you loose control ; you'll reap the harvest you have sown.
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stareatclouds
star eat clouds?



Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 9,887
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: sandman420]
#25999026 - 05/18/19 02:17 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
sandman420 said: There is no need to wrap the inside of your PC with anything at all. The only reason a bag will melt from touching the sides is if you run out of water or use an enourmously oversised propane cooker that laps over the sides. The pinholes can be from a few things but being in contact with wrinkled up foil while soft and hot could do it.
I've seen this repeated many times, but have read many people saying the opposite. I had a much better record after doing so and multiple cultivators who are better than me do so, so worth a shot.
The bit about wrinkled foil causing them is valid. That's why I foiled my trivet because some of the holes were rusty and a little jagged. Going to assess mine in a bit because I know I've ripped and messed them up when removing bottom bags.
Quote:
sandman420 said: Ok but why? There is no need for that.
Because the filter can stick to the plastic on the bag and rip off/become compromised when unfolding it.
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Yesum
Furry as Fuc



Registered: 11/05/12
Posts: 13,124
Loc: Central Part of Town
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I dont vent for liquids. Never have problems with plates going bad.
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stareatclouds
star eat clouds?



Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 9,887
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: SunnyDayze]
#25999126 - 05/18/19 05:09 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
SunnyDayze said:
Quote:
Legend21 said: Can you do bags without a Flow Hood?
Yes. You have a higher chance of contam but it can be done. Are you talking G2G? If so just raise up your SAB some way. I used coir bricks on edge and put a garbage bag over then placed the SAB on it. Wasn’t perfect as the bricks weren’t exactly the same but it worked, got 4 or 5 extra inches in height lol

If you are using LI or LC then it’s easy.

Put clear tape on the arm hole section to reinforce it a bit and cut out cirles with my scalpel.
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Legend21
Legend



Registered: 04/27/18
Posts: 1,148
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: SunnyDayze]
#25999133 - 05/18/19 05:18 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
SunnyDayze said:
Quote:
Legend21 said: Can you do bags without a Flow Hood?
Yes. You have a higher chance of contam but it can be done. Are you talking G2G? If so just raise up your SAB some way. I used coir bricks on edge and put a garbage bag over then placed the SAB on it. Wasn’t perfect as the bricks weren’t exactly the same but it worked, got 4 or 5 extra inches in height lol

If you are using LI or LC then it’s easy.
I was mainly thinking about just the sealing process. Like everyone says they unload their PC and bags in front of their flowhood so I was wondering how people without one unload and seal the bags.
But yeah I’d probably do g2g. I appreciate that explanation of how to do it! I really like the idea of bags for some reason.
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sandman420
Saint PP



Registered: 06/17/04
Posts: 5,384
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Legend21]
#25999178 - 05/18/19 06:04 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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I unload my bags in the open air from the PC, and move them to a shelf next to my hood before I inoculate in front of a flowhood one at a time. Grabbing one from the shelf next to me as I go. My pc isn't possible to move to a flowhood.
Guys I absolutely 100% promise you that there is no need to wrap your pc with anything for bags. It is simple thermodynamics that the walls of the PC can not get any hotter than the water underneath them, which can not POSSIBLY be any warmer than 250 degrees at 15 psi...Unless you run out of water or the flames lap over the sides really badly. It's just not possible. I have done thousands of bags over 15 years without wrapping anything and with bags in FULL contact of the sides....And I have melted some once or twice...when I ran out of water only, or when I used a CRAZY propane burner.
There is no need to worry about the filter sticking in or out either, it is hydrophobic and also it doesn't stick to itself or the bag in any way whatsoever... Th filter is made from PTFE or woven PP and there is no way it will stick to anything.
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sandman420
Saint PP



Registered: 06/17/04
Posts: 5,384
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: sandman420]
#25999182 - 05/18/19 06:08 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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heh...woven PP
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SunnyDayze
Finder of shrubberies



Registered: 12/30/17
Posts: 2,230
Loc: Canada
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Yesum]
#25999198 - 05/18/19 06:27 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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I haven’t had problems with melting bags, I use gas too but just don’t have it on max. Could someone have gotten the wrong bags?
PP polypropylene is autoclaveable and PE polyethylene is for lower temps.
@stare, order some new trivets! Lol. I have an AA and they sell all those parts, I haven’t looked at trivets but I order new gauges and pressure release valves periodically (about every 5-7 years) and they aren’t too expensive.
Quote:
Yesum said: I dont vent for liquids. Never have problems with plates going bad. 
How long and what pressure do you sterilize for? I never had troubles with liquids even with the shorter vent but for consistency in pressure it’s just what I do.
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