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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: tryptkaloids]
    #25860375 - 03/08/19 09:00 AM (4 years, 10 months ago)

i dont agree with that at all.

Quote:

it takes the cleanest culture and utmost cleanest procedure




and you should have that anyway:shrug:

you are either sterile or not. clean or dirty. liquids or wedges. grains or needles. its all the same shit.

to say agar2g or g2g is easier/harder than liquids shows a lack of experience/understanding.


Quote:

stareatclouds said:

Or just learn how to use liquids properly




:werd:


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Invisiblestareatclouds
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: tryptkaloids]
    #25860388 - 03/08/19 09:10 AM (4 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

tryptkaloids said:
I think its important for us to give advice around other's requirements. if speed is important he should use a liquid, but if it's more important for it to work then he shouldn't. 




This doesn't make any sense and sounds like your experience is bleeding into your post. If someone is comfortable with LI, I say go for it. If they're not, A2G can work. I said as much in my post where he was asking for people's preference, by the way.

There is absolutely no rule that liquids are going to fail exponentially more so than others. And if it did, you'd be silly to trade speed for it. Regardless, all of this is about finding what is comfortable and works for you. I didn't tell him to abandon A2G, I gave him my preference on LI.


Quote:

don't let your love for liquids allow you to advise someone who may not be able to pull them off.  it takes more than having faith in your work and knowing basic sterile procedure for liquids to work.  it takes the cleanest culture and utmost cleanest procedure




Again, I said if he's comfortable with LI, that's my preference. No, it doesn't take the cleanest culture and utmost cleanest procedure, whatever the fuck that means.

Do y'all seriously have like B and C games where you're like, "Okay, A2G, I'll turn my AC on and practice my impression of a baby with whooping cough while I transfer this semi-clean wedge to grain I PC'd for 12 minutes on 1PSI" or what? Because I try and bat 1000 every SAB session and A2G is no different for me than LI. Its's the same exact procedure as anything else.

A2G is the same, but with LI it goes into sterilized water with a blender attachment. G2G is the same, only you're pouring a RM 1/2 pint into 10 jars, not a quart into quarts. Every sterile technique or application amounts to the exact same shit: do shit the right way.

Having faith in your work and procedure = clean cultures and clean technique. Again, there's no rule you need to go wild with LC and noc 207573276 jars.

How many successful LI's have you done?


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OfflineCamera93
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: stareatclouds]
    #25860405 - 03/08/19 09:19 AM (4 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

stareatclouds said:

Again, I said if he's comfortable with LI, that's my preference. No, it doesn't take the cleanest culture and utmost cleanest procedure, whatever the fuck that means.

Do y'all seriously have like B and C games where you're like, "Okay, A2G, I'll turn my AC on and practice my impression of a baby with whooping cough while I transfer this semi-clean wedge to grain I PC'd for 12 minutes on 1PSI" or what? Because I try and bat 1000 every SAB session and A2G is no different for me than LI. Its's the same exact procedure as anything else.

A2G is the same, but with LI it goes into sterilized water with a blender attachment. G2G is the same, only you're pouring a RM 1/2 pint into 10 jars, not a quart into quarts. Every sterile technique or application amounts to the exact same shit: do shit the right way.

Having faith in your work and procedure = clean cultures and clean technique. Again, there's no rule you need to go wild with LC and noc 207573276 jars.

How many successful LI's have you done?




Is the last aimed at me?
only 2



an example from the last, 5 quarts spawn in a unmod mono and yielded about 4oz dry back from MS

I like LI a lot, just wanted preference on how you guys like to noc up masters.


--------------------
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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Camera93]
    #25860417 - 03/08/19 09:24 AM (4 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Camera93 said:
just wanted preference on how you guys like to noc up masters.




any jar can be a masterr. i expand whatever looks the best and sometimes thats from g2g, a2g, lc.. whichever method gives me the cleanest end result.

whenever i make dedicated masters i always feel like im expanding subpar spawn. im tarded like that.


Edited by mushboy (03/08/19 09:33 AM)


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Invisiblestareatclouds
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Caps McGee]
    #25860431 - 03/08/19 09:29 AM (4 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Caps McGee said:
I think we're very similar and clash... idk... whatever it is... and isolated strains or not, they were no longer performing... some were agar pins of agar pins of agar pins... which I would think to aid in isolation as well... Either or, I respect stare... it's whatever I suppose




What do you mean isolated strains or not? That's the whole point. :lol: Do you think my argument was, "NO CHANCE IN HELL CAPS PUT AN AGAR PIN TO A NEW PLATE REPEATEDLY UNTIL HIS GROW WAS WORSE THAN BEFORE!"

You're running around proclaiming you've shown that 11/12 isolated strains from a clone perform worse than the original. And you clearly have not done the work you're claiming. Now you're not even sure they were isolated. And some were cloning pins of pins of pins lol

This is the problem, Caps. You guess and think and ballpark and estimate and Google and regurgitate as facts. I don't have a grudge against you, but you making shit up is not helping anybody, the board, or clandestine mycology in general. If you aren't willing to admit you're either bullshitting or were just wrong about the 11/12 isolating nonsense, then whatever. Do you. My overall advice is to just learn at the natural pace your skill dictates and post more from actual experience and not from RR's notes.

Camera,

Nah, to tryp. Did you do blenderless LI or did you switch the lids?


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Offlinetryptkaloids
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: stareatclouds]
    #25860445 - 03/08/19 09:39 AM (4 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

mushboy said:
Quote:

Camera93 said:
just wanted preference on how you guys like to noc up masters.




any jar can be a masterr. i expand whatever looks the best .



Exactly! a2g tends to look the best.

Quote:

stareatclouds said:
Quote:

tryptkaloids said:
I think its important for us to give advice around other's requirements. if speed is important he should use a liquid, but if it's more important for it to work then he shouldn't. 




This doesn't make any sense and sounds like your experience is bleeding into your post. If someone is comfortable with LI, I say go for it. If they're not, A2G can work. I said as much in my post where he was asking for people's preference, by the way.

There is absolutely no rule that liquids are going to fail exponentially more so than others. And if it did, you'd be silly to trade speed for it. Regardless, all of this is about finding what is comfortable and works for you. I didn't tell him to abandon A2G, I gave him my preference on LI.


Quote:

don't let your love for liquids allow you to advise someone who may not be able to pull them off.  it takes more than having faith in your work and knowing basic sterile procedure for liquids to work.  it takes the cleanest culture and utmost cleanest procedure




Again, I said if he's comfortable with LI, that's my preference. No, it doesn't take the cleanest culture and utmost cleanest procedure, whatever the fuck that means.

Do y'all seriously have like B and C games where you're like, "Okay, A2G, I'll turn my AC on and practice my impression of a baby with whooping cough while I transfer this semi-clean wedge to grain I PC'd for 12 minutes on 1PSI" or what? Because I try and bat 1000 every SAB session and A2G is no different for me than LI. Its's the same exact procedure as anything else.

A2G is the same, but with LI it goes into sterilized water with a blender attachment. G2G is the same, only you're pouring a RM 1/2 pint into 10 jars, not a quart into quarts. Every sterile technique or application amounts to the exact same shit: do shit the right way.

Having faith in your work and procedure = clean cultures and clean technique. Again, there's no rule you need to go wild with LC and noc 207573276 jars.

How many successful LI's have you done?



I've only done blenderless a few times with failure. don't feel like going back because I don't have the proper blender and can guarantee mushrooms by omitting the extra step... it takes more than just faith to ensure clean cultures... can't believe you just said that..
also, you scared caps away days ago


--------------------
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OfflineCamera93
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: stareatclouds]
    #25860464 - 03/08/19 09:46 AM (4 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

stareatclouds said:

Camera,

Nah, to tryp. Did you do blenderless LI or did you switch the lids?





blender-less both times, and the route I plan to go again.

I have 3 pasty plates with T2 Rustywhytes (2 transfers away from the germination plate?) , I wanna try and make some grain soak agar pastys for the T3 that hopefully looks good enough for inoculation.

Ill pour the T3 plates thin to better break up with the blender-less tek


--------------------
All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I’m fine.

Whatever you decide won’t really impact our survival
Close your eyes, and do the best that you can



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Invisiblestareatclouds
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: tryptkaloids]
    #25860489 - 03/08/19 09:54 AM (4 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

tryptkaloids said:
I've only done blenderless a few times with failure. don't feel like going back because I don't have the proper blender and can guarantee mushrooms by omitting the extra step... it takes more than just faith to ensure clean cultures... can't believe you just said that..




The proper blender is a $10 Oster that you can get at Target or Offer Up and/or Craigslist. It's not a mythical piece of machinery. But all you need is the blender blade attachment if you have a decently powerful drill. I have extra blender blade attachments and will mail you one RTV'd to a lid if you want? I'm pretty solid at LI and can help you get more comfortable with it if you'd like. It's never a bad idea to add another skill to your game and it 100% translates to all other sterile procedure.

If you failed at BLI, it has nothing to do with liquid and everything with basic technique, IMO. Definitely think if you're cool with A2G or whatever, keep it up. Mushrooms are the end goal.

I didn't say "have faith and your cultures will be clean." I said have faith in your technique and told you that having faith in your technique IS knowing your cultures are clean. Obviously I wouldn't expand to liquids if I didn't think my culture was clean.


Quote:

also, you scared caps away days ago




Oh, no! Who will answer every single question by parroting someone else's notes they pass off as their own? Edit: That was harsh and not totally accurate, but seriously, it's absolutely more harmful than helpful to bullshit about stuff. It's a massive pet peeve of mine when people do this because of how little testing we individually do in this hobby. The collective thought snowballs into "fact" super fast and folks should be a little more careful with the information they spread.

Meanwhile, Caps is out here spinning yarn about how his independent research is backing up RR's notes despite not understanding the basic principles of what his "tests" have shown. Sorry, but that is unacceptable and worth calling out. You don't get claim you've proven stuff without some scrutiny, and if he had proven this, he'd have proof. Dude's lying, plain and simple.

Perhaps I'm just grumpy, but I don't give a shit that he's told 500 noobs what ideal surface conditions are. If he wasn't the first to answer every single question, someone else would've answered all the same. And maybe even someone with the resume to provide said information?

Feel free to call me out if you think I'm bullshitting or not citing sources.

Cam,

You don't want to pour the plate "thin" so much as you want it "soft." That means more water/less agar than normal. This will help it break up easier because it's less gelatinous. You'll want to find a balance so that it breaks apart easy in the liquid, but has enough strength to be cut out. Munch's recipe should work.


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OfflineShaperDreaming
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Camera93]
    #25860514 - 03/08/19 10:06 AM (4 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

stareatclouds said:
A2G is agonizingly slow for me so I've never really done it. But for some, the added vector of LI isn't worth it.



Yeah, I started using soft agar with A2G and it's worked almost as fast as LC/LI. I've only worked with edible LC/LI created by others (thosewedonotname), and it was only a day or two ahead of my soft agar.

A full plate of soft agar dropped into a quart master and shaken vigorously works similarly to LI/LC in speed. It even looks like when you do LI/LC and shake, that hazy myc all over everything in two days.

Due to always working on KISS techniques, I try to reduce every added vector possible, even if it's a bit slower. Just seems safest to me in my space and budget.

I guess I'm saying, I'd love to see someone compare a good soft agar tiger drop shaken to a good LI/LC inoc shake. Colonization side by side compare would be fun.

We all know how fast G2G is from master. I'm trying to speed that up even further with using milo grains for my master so that they can have more inoculation points when g2g into oats since they're about 1/3 the size. :shrug: It was the same cost as Oats, thought it would be a fun experiment.


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Invisiblestareatclouds
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: ShaperDreaming]
    #25860521 - 03/08/19 10:12 AM (4 years, 10 months ago)

The benefit would be the amount of jars you get inoculated, not just the speed. But I could see the speed being comparable or even faster with softer agar. The agar itself sticks to the grains whereas the liquid often pools at the bottom or slides off. To combat this, I'd been adding something to my grain to speed up the colonization. Plan on doing more tests and writing a Tek so don't want to share much (nothing revolutionary), but early tests have faster colonization and a boost to the 2nd yield (very small sample size though).


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Offlineicetech
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: ShaperDreaming] * 1
    #25860526 - 03/08/19 10:13 AM (4 years, 10 months ago)

I switched to soft Agar recently and OMG i can't believe how fast shit grows in it.. I have had issues for a long time of myc taking forever in my old recipe, talked to someone on here and softened it up and just.. my god.. 1 week for what used to take 3-4.

Quote:

ShaperDreaming said:
Quote:

stareatclouds said:
A2G is agonizingly slow for me so I've never really done it. But for some, the added vector of LI isn't worth it.



Yeah, I started using soft agar with A2G and it's worked almost as fast as LC/LI. I've only worked with edible LC/LI created by others (thosewedonotname), and it was only a day or two ahead of my soft agar.

A full plate of soft agar dropped into a quart master and shaken vigorously works similarly to LI/LC in speed. It even looks like when you do LI/LC and shake, that hazy myc all over everything in two days.

Due to always working on KISS techniques, I try to reduce every added vector possible, even if it's a bit slower. Just seems safest to me in my space and budget.

I guess I'm saying, I'd love to see someone compare a good soft agar tiger drop shaken to a good LI/LC inoc shake. Colonization side by side compare would be fun.

We all know how fast G2G is from master. I'm trying to speed that up even further with using milo grains for my master so that they can have more inoculation points when g2g into oats since they're about 1/3 the size. :shrug: It was the same cost as Oats, thought it would be a fun experiment.




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Offlinetryptkaloids
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: stareatclouds]
    #25860533 - 03/08/19 10:15 AM (4 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

stareatclouds said:
all you need is the blender blade attachment if you have a decently powerful drill. I have extra blender blade attachments and will mail you one RTV'd to a lid if you want? I'm pretty solid at LI and can help you get more comfortable with it if you'd like.


that would be killer
Quote:

also, you scared caps away days ago




Quote:

stareatclouds said:
Oh, no! Who will answer every single question by parroting someone else's notes they pass off as their own? Edit: That was harsh and not totally accurate, but seriously, it's absolutely more harmful than helpful to bullshit about stuff. It's a massive pet peeve of mine when people do this because of how little testing we individually do in this hobby. The collective thought snowballs into "fact" super fast and folks should be a little more careful with the information they spread.

Meanwhile, Caps is out here spinning yarn about how his independent research is backing up RR's notes despite not understanding the basic principles of what his "tests" have shown. Sorry, but that is unacceptable and worth calling out. You don't get claim you've proven stuff without some scrutiny, and if he had proven this, he'd have proof. Dude's lying, plain and simple.

Perhaps I'm just grumpy, but I don't give a shit that he's told 500 noobs what ideal surface conditions are. If he wasn't the first to answer every single question, someone else would've answered all the same. And maybe even someone with the resume to provide said information?

Feel free to call me out if you think I'm bullshitting or not citing sources.



lol, no need to explain yourself. maybe I'm speaking for myself, but I think we all understand where you're coming from. I just hate to see you continue to beat a dead horse


--------------------
"Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage
Flowchart for Recommended plan of action.
Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms
Use the Damn search engine
After you know what you're doing, take a break 
Pick a book, Make some chips!
Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
 


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Invisiblestareatclouds
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: tryptkaloids]
    #25860538 - 03/08/19 10:17 AM (4 years, 10 months ago)

I'll PM you when I have it ready. Going to plan a bunch of lid stuff within the month so I'll tie it into that. Are you able to record your SAB sessions?


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OfflineShaperDreaming
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: stareatclouds] * 1
    #25860539 - 03/08/19 10:17 AM (4 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

stareatclouds said:
The benefit would be the amount of jars you get inoculated, not just the speed.



This totally makes sense, and is also not really a factor for me. I could take one plate of soft agar and noc up 4 quart jars decently easily... I don't really have the space to go bigger :shrug: Those 4 quart jars could be 40 fully colonized quarts in about 3-4 weeks no problem. I couldn't even take care of that many :lol:


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Offlinetryptkaloids
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: stareatclouds]
    #25860557 - 03/08/19 10:21 AM (4 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

stareatclouds said:
I'll PM you when I have it ready. Going to plan a bunch of lid stuff within the month so I'll tie it into that. Are you able to record your SAB sessions?



lost my phone last week so itll be a couple weeks


--------------------
"Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage
Flowchart for Recommended plan of action.
Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms
Use the Damn search engine
After you know what you're doing, take a break 
Pick a book, Make some chips!
Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
 


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Invisiblestareatclouds
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: ShaperDreaming]
    #25860578 - 03/08/19 10:26 AM (4 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

ShaperDreaming said:
Quote:

stareatclouds said:
The benefit would be the amount of jars you get inoculated, not just the speed.



This totally makes sense, and is also not really a factor for me. I could take one plate of soft agar and noc up 4 quart jars decently easily... I don't really have the space to go bigger :shrug: Those 4 quart jars could be 40 fully colonized quarts in about 3-4 weeks no problem. I couldn't even take care of that many :lol:




Definitely. I trade speed for number of jars anyway. For instance, an agar plate goes into 120ml of water and inoculates 12-18 jars. This often takes me 14-18 days. It's all about whatever works for you. I don't mind the extra time when I want more spawn.

Like I said to trip, it's a good technique to learn which translates to other things. Personally, I like diving into a bunch of shit. The Josex poke for LC is also rad and very, very easy to do.


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Offlinetryptkaloids
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: stareatclouds]
    #25860595 - 03/08/19 10:31 AM (4 years, 10 months ago)

I've always struggled with the poke too. I always worry about lids when it comes to liquids. what setup do you use? unmodified? rubber side down?


--------------------
"Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage
Flowchart for Recommended plan of action.
Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms
Use the Damn search engine
After you know what you're doing, take a break 
Pick a book, Make some chips!
Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
 


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InvisibleMr Piggy
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: tryptkaloids]
    #25860605 - 03/08/19 10:35 AM (4 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

tryptkaloids said:
... rubber side down...




Seeing this confused me when I first got here.

In the BC world it means "I hope you don't crash, good luck!"


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OfflineShaperDreaming
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: stareatclouds]
    #25860623 - 03/08/19 10:41 AM (4 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

stareatclouds said:
The Josex poke for LC is also rad and very, very easy to do.



Honestly, I'm likely going to start doing this for agar soon, then I could see expanding it to LC. I just need to get my temp in my living situation settled first.


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: ShaperDreaming]
    #25860631 - 03/08/19 10:45 AM (4 years, 10 months ago)

josex poke is the shit. twas first time i seriously attempted LC and it quickly grew out of hand:awesomenod:


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