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Moabfighter
Tam Fighter



Registered: 12/13/15
Posts: 2,710
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bodhisatta] 1
#25795109 - 02/06/19 12:58 PM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Man you guys have no idea how bad I wish I could pull this shit off again my signature pictures. Got it once or three times, and molded out about 30 tubs since. Just can’t do it.
-------------------- KSSS And PE WBS.
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tryptkaloids
Learner



Registered: 02/08/15
Posts: 12,641
Loc: Exact Center
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Moabfighter] 1
#25795197 - 02/06/19 01:40 PM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Yes you can moab! Run us through your procedure. There's gotta be a hole bro
-------------------- "Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage Flowchart for Recommended plan of action. Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms Use the Damn search engine After you know what you're doing, take a break Pick a book, Make some chips! Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
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Psilosopherr
A psilly goose



Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 12,278
Last seen: 1 month, 10 days
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: tryptkaloids]
#25795247 - 02/06/19 01:58 PM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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question: if I have a woodlover like azure outside in a flower pot and I've spawned it a time or two, can I just keep super spawning it until I hit the senescence roof?
Don't see why not but never hear of people doing this really.
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tryptkaloids
Learner



Registered: 02/08/15
Posts: 12,641
Loc: Exact Center
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Psilosopherr]
#25795289 - 02/06/19 02:18 PM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Not sure what that means lol
-------------------- "Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage Flowchart for Recommended plan of action. Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms Use the Damn search engine After you know what you're doing, take a break Pick a book, Make some chips! Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
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Psilosopherr
A psilly goose



Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 12,278
Last seen: 1 month, 10 days
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: tryptkaloids]
#25795293 - 02/06/19 02:19 PM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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what super spawn? Its when you use colonized bulk sub as spawn and just spawn it again
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tryptkaloids
Learner


Registered: 02/08/15
Posts: 12,641
Loc: Exact Center
Last seen: 3 days, 9 hours
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Psilosopherr]
#25795507 - 02/06/19 04:05 PM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Sounds like the opposite of super but with woodlovers it shouldnt be a huge deal
-------------------- "Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage Flowchart for Recommended plan of action. Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms Use the Damn search engine After you know what you're doing, take a break Pick a book, Make some chips! Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: tryptkaloids]
#25796688 - 02/07/19 06:34 AM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Here is some data and notes on Cubensis you all might like: You will notice that some vendor sites, especially those selling spores will have some data on Cubensis, many will say it fruits from dung (coprophilous fungi) and "enriched soils". Over the years I have done several tests, and also recently adapted Cubensis to behave as a wood loving mycelium (lignicolous fungi, which decay phenols). I can tell you Cubensis does indeed adapt, and behaves as a primary decomposer if the adaption is supported (nutrients such as nitrogen, potassium, and so on). We know dung is a natural fertilizer, it's high in nitrogen, potassium, so on, it also contains ample cellulose, and some soluble carbon sources. In order to fully adapt Cubensis to phenols (black tea in this case), I needed to add soluble MG (nitrogen etc), and soluble sucrose. After adaption took place, the Cubensis was able to fully support it's self on 100% tea, and twice as much (pH 5.8). In comparison, the adapted Cubensis is 4-5x faster than un-adapted Azure, using the same batch of T-Gel, and the same containers. Enzymatic Degradation of Lignin in Soil - PDF, note: Coir is a composition of cellulose, lignin (polyphenol), and other.
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https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25794328#25794328 | Recipe A (MG + Sucrose), trying to fruit.
Edited by Ferather (02/07/19 06:50 AM)
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Failboat
Fuck Up

Registered: 02/01/18
Posts: 8,736
Last seen: 7 hours, 51 minutes
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather]
#25796717 - 02/07/19 06:54 AM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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So in summary? Sounds like you're saying that if adapted to wood you can feed it a tea for hydration and nutrition over time, and that it grows much faster than Azurescens. How does it compare to unadapted cubensis? Comparing cube and azur growth seems a bit fruitless. What use is this information?
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Failboat]
#25796778 - 02/07/19 07:50 AM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Azure is lignicolous, and white-rot, it normally decays phenols in wood and other plants as a source of carbon (it also converts it). Other than cellulose, phenols are the next most abundant carbon source, this includes materials such as coco coir.
These types of phenols and polyphenols are usually inhibitory (even anti-fungal), and acidic.
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Cubensis can decay both cellulose (fiber) and phenols, however in order to so, and well, it requires a certain value of nutrients.
Germinating Cubensis using a wood peg, onto T-Gel did work, but it was very weak and stalled. Similar would happen if you put spores onto coir. My adapted Cubensis however, is able to decay, convert and utilize phenols, and it's not weak whatsoever, much the opposite.
This would mean that if I where to place a wedge into 100% coir, I would have a higher chance of success. However, it would be very likely that I would need to enrich the coir with additional nutrients.
Coir like wood, is fairly poor in nitrogen content, wood: ~0.1%, coir: ~0.4%.
Lignicolous mycelium can-will germinate on plant phenols, and can-will throw away carbon to alter ratios.
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When grain is used, which actually has a fairly high ratio of usable nitrogen, the additional nitrogen can be spread. 100g of coco coir will provide much more, and a larger array of, nutrients than 100g of vermiculite.
So lets say you used a grain that has a 11:1 carbon-nitrogen ratio (optimal is 25-30:1).
Since the vermiculite adds no nutrients, no carbon or nitrogen, the ratio is unchanged if mixed. If you mixed the grain with coir, you would alter the carbon-nitrogen ratio.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24012223#24012223
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In addition to the nitrogen and other essential A-Z nutrients (potassium, vitamins, etc) provided by the whole grain, it also provides starch. Both starch and cellulose, are composed of glucose units, both are carbohydrates, however cellulose is very slow to react.
So an additional benefit of grain spawn, is the faster decay starch, which is then spent, stored, converted, so on. Note, in order to decay complex cellulose at a good rate, additional or ample enzymes are needed.
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Not everyone is interested in 50-50 grain-coir by weight (dry), other methods are cheaper.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather] 1
#25796790 - 02/07/19 07:58 AM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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In summary i wana see cubes do at least half as good off of wood or they're not wood adapted.
Them growing poorly on agar isn't a sign they've adapted to anything
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bodhisatta]
#25796813 - 02/07/19 08:05 AM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Can I do wood + paper or 100% wood? I will be enriching it WL-Tek, both are nitrogen deficient (cold substrates). I will also be using grain spawn as standard, in my case a thin single layer at the bottom.
It will look like these images, except I will fill the container a bit more.
Edited by Ferather (02/07/19 08:20 AM)
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather]
#25796843 - 02/07/19 08:26 AM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Can't wait. If it takes twice as long to colonize as a similar container of BRF or grain and yields half as much then what?
We don't use wood with cubes because colonization takes forever and yield sucks. It's a fraction of the efficiency. If you change that maybe just maybe it would be interesting or worth a look.
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ithikuss
Level 4 Mage



Registered: 08/13/18
Posts: 650
Loc: Nightosphere
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather]
#25796845 - 02/07/19 08:28 AM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Whoops, just accidentally let my sub get cracked in 3 while flipping it to get some early bloomers from the bottom, even though I have been getting less side pins but dang are they getting big when I do... Whelp time to see how durable it was... besides the bein too thin and falling apart.. part.... Don't charge me with sub assault... I didn't mean it
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Edited by ithikuss (02/07/19 08:28 AM)
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: ithikuss]
#25796869 - 02/07/19 08:41 AM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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@ bodhisatta
I would attempt various changes, and then if to no avail, I would deem WL-Tek "not optimal" for Cubensis, I have no problem there. However, what I have established is Cubensis can decay phenols, what enzymes and reactions it uses I have no idea.
I should also have selective growth, given the spores where germinated almost on the end media.
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growlingmycelium
/@_@/



Registered: 04/15/16
Posts: 346
Loc: Durkadurkastan
Last seen: 7 months, 20 days
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather]
#25798483 - 02/08/19 01:00 AM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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God I need to check in more then I do.... I care more about this then Uni but fuck I pay 20K plus for one year and not this.... Shit... ill be doing this professionally within a year for the betterment of my country and it just baffles me I started here a few years ago....
I'm seeing a lot of folks say my problem was genetic, many other folks comparing about conditions.... okay I dont know who to trust... yall have hight ratings..
Ill have 20 on a certain Temp and RH, another rack of 18 on a specific temp controlled and another base line in another room, at another temp and RH. The base line will be my 73 fruit room with 6K bulb standard. Ill hash out what this problem is using real science.
I'ts not rocket science it's just mycology. Ill update but I'm sure no one cares.
Are these alleged "MS" not MS? I suspect so. I suspect this is a genetic issue rather then an environmental because I did 3 basline experiments and got similar results but the law of large numbers says to extrapolate.
I plan to go from these 18 Shoe boxes from this B+ MS to 50 Within a month, not including the Monotubs as well.
Ill be backkkkk
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Edmunter
Mr



Registered: 05/01/13
Posts: 5,699
Last seen: 19 days, 5 hours
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Whats the recommended straw prep tek atm?
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Edmunter
Mr



Registered: 05/01/13
Posts: 5,699
Last seen: 19 days, 5 hours
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Edmunter]
#25798647 - 02/08/19 05:01 AM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Its ok I found this one https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25161969 which is similar to RR's so must be the go to......
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Edmunter
Mr



Registered: 05/01/13
Posts: 5,699
Last seen: 19 days, 5 hours
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Edmunter]
#25799405 - 02/08/19 01:29 PM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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When pasteurising straw is it okayTo leave it overnightIn the water
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Edmunter]
#25799529 - 02/08/19 02:39 PM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Some note and information consolidtion, feel free to improve-correct anything:
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I'm not so sure you can strictly 'improve' potency, if that's what people are looking for, however, it's very possible to adapt mycelium and dial in conditions that reach the genetic potency cap. > Mycelium need nitrogen to produce ample active materials, as well as other materials, so lets say it had a nitrogen deficiency, this would effect total production and yield. > Cubensis grown in gourmet conditions (lots of oxygen, light and humidity) bruised more than when grown in low-medium oxygen, more moderate conditions. > The physical mass of Cubensis is higher than most other actives, it's potential for nutrient capacity should be higher than thin alternatives. > Total physical yield should reduce if more active materials are being produced, leaving less for other materials.
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A media will have a limited amount of usable resources, lets say two fungi collected 25g of carbon and 1g of nitrogen, to spend, as a workable example. Fungi (A) utilizes 20g of carbon and 0.5g of nitrogen to produce fruit body mass, that leaves 5g C and 0.5g N. Fungi (B) utilizes 10g of carbon and 0.5g of nitrogen to produce actives, that leaves 15g C and 0.5g N.
Fungi (A) produces more fruit mass, fungi (B) produces more active materials.
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Increased oxygen would increase overall oxidative stress, and the correct response would be to produce more antioxidants.
Reactive oxygen species and antioxidant properties from mushrooms - Has illustrations. Oxidative stress in industrial fungi - Short version, no illustrations.
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Extract from my journal, in relation to above.
Baeocystin: [C11]--[H15]--[N2]--[O4]--[P] Norbaeocystin: [C10]--[H13]--[N2]--[O4]--[P]
Psilocybin: [C12]--[H17]--[N2]--[O4]--[P] Psilocin: [C12]--[H16]--[N2]--[O]
From above:
"Psilocybin is a tryptamine compound with a chemical structure containing an indole ring linked to an ethylamine substituent. It is chemically related to the amino acid tryptophan, and is structurally similar to serotonin." "Psilocybin is a member of the tryptophan-based compounds that originally functioned as antioxidants in earlier life forms before assuming more complex functions in multicellular organisms."
"Psilocin is relatively unstable in solution due to its phenolic hydroxy (-OH) group. In the presence of oxygen it readily forms bluish and dark black degradation products" "Most species of psilocybin-containing mushrooms bruise blue when handled or damaged due to the oxidization of phenolic compounds"
"Psilocin is broken down by the enzyme monoamine oxidase. Some psilocin is not broken down, and forms a glucuronide"
Notes:
Nor-baeocystin are analogs of psilocybin, meaning single or various elements are added or removed. It appears they can be phosphorylated or dephosphorylated (cleaved, added, a cycle?). All four compounds contain carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen and oxygen.
Serotonin: [C10]--[H12]--[N2]--[O]
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Note, the most potent mushrooms usually produce little mass (thin, small, hollow) and can be wood loving (lignicolous). Phenols require oxygen and oxygen radicals to decay properly, In my mind this is relative to above. Antioxidants could be considered like wearing gloves to use a hot oven (cooks food).
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Here I made a WL-Tek block (paper + MG soluble nutrients) with grain spawn, and compared the same block, indoors and outdoors. The indoor setup had good FAE, you might say lots, but in fact it's medium, and outdoors I got max FAE.

Info on oxygen and king oyster here.
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Cubensis grown in high O2, with 10g of rice and 10g of enriched paper, spend media sample. 16g total weight from all the fruits, they where fairly solid and hard to cut.

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ShaperDreaming
Weirdo



Registered: 10/30/18
Posts: 3,429
Loc: United States
Last seen: 2 years, 3 days
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather] 1
#25799554 - 02/08/19 02:56 PM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ferather said:

Lots of good info. I just wanted to chime in and say this thing looks disgusting...
I'd still eat it
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