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OfflineHidingInPlainSight
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LSA test #2
    #2352763 - 02/19/04 12:50 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

February 18, 2004

Recently I was over at idontclassify's house and helped him harvest a bunch of Heavenly Blue seed pods from his plants he was growing.

We ground up around 300-400 seeds and are using 91% isopropyl alcohol to extract the LSA.

The test will be seeing how potency differs in seeds from homegrown plants, compared to seeds from stores.

If the experiment goes well and he trips good, I will be dosing the same amount then writing a trip report.

More updates to follow.


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InvisibleZippoZM
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Re: LSA test #2 [Re: HidingInPlainSight]
    #2352844 - 02/19/04 02:18 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

okay heres the problem, las is water soluable, and a polar molecule, which means that alcahol ( a non-polar solvent) will not extract your lsa. so basically whatever seed mush that you have left has all of your alkaloids.

although i could be wrong, im sick and tired, i would like to hear neuro's opinion


--------------------
PEACE

:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."


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Invisibleplura16
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Re: LSA test #2 [Re: ZippoZ]
    #2352884 - 02/19/04 02:30 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

cant wait to hear the report.

someone has used this method on hbwr as well, but used high proof drinkable ethanol.


peace


--------------------

- USA -


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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Re: LSA test #2 [Re: plura16]
    #2353082 - 02/19/04 03:13 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Dont EVER EXTRACT HBWR!!!! YOU ARE EXTRACTING THE TOXINS ALSO!

Buy some Ololiuqui and extract it. MGs con : very very weak, HBWR : Very toxic, Ololiuqui : No toxins and a little less potent then HBWR.


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Offlineneuro
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Re: LSA test #2 [Re: ZippoZ]
    #2353866 - 02/19/04 09:30 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

alcohol is polar.


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Invisibleplura16
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Re: LSA test #2 [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #2353876 - 02/19/04 09:34 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

theshiftingwalls said:
Dont EVER EXTRACT HBWR!!!! YOU ARE EXTRACTING THE TOXINS ALSO!

Buy some Ololiuqui and extract it. MGs con : very very weak, HBWR : Very toxic, Ololiuqui : No toxins and a little less potent then HBWR.




someone would rather have extract than eat the whole seeds... nausea.. also the crushed seeds get a wash or two before they are extracted - this must remove at least some of the unwanted items.

The extract is sweet.


peace


--------------------

- USA -


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OfflineCerebralFlower
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Re: LSA test #2 [Re: HidingInPlainSight]
    #2380707 - 02/26/04 08:18 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

On monday I took 12(10 packs) grams of store bought Heavenly Blues... No extraction, just crush, add water, drink, eat. wait
It was crazy... had to smoke pot after about 2 for the effects to reveal themselves to me, then i was deep in the trip. My girlfriend and I ended up giving eachother a bad trip for about 5 hours tho :frown:
Very shitty for that time.
No more MG for me.
Good luck for idontclassify


--------------------
God says dance with your heart
And shake free of you desire

Where theres a will theres always a way
When you get confused listen to the music play



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OfflineFesterBestertester
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Re: LSA test #2 [Re: CerebralFlower]
    #2382580 - 02/27/04 11:37 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

My girlfriend and I ended up giving eachother a bad trip for about 5 hours tho



So you and your girlfriend were arguing (like couples do), I wouldn't trip with my gf around myself (she can be a bad trip without psychedelics), but if I did, I wouldn't blame my bummer experience on the seeds.
Trip with some good MALE friends, or even by yourself, it's not even fair to discount them after trying them only once.


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OfflineHidingInPlainSight
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Re: LSA test #2 [Re: HidingInPlainSight]
    #2388873 - 02/29/04 02:31 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Here's the deal:

idontclassify doesn't want to eat the extract. So I am going to.

There are only some things I need to get out of the way:

The extract has been on a plate just sitting there in the open air for about four to five days.

Question: Will the air make it lose potency, and that is it? Or will it grow mold on it or grow bacteria, etc? making it unsafe to eat??


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Offlineneuro
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Re: LSA test #2 [Re: HidingInPlainSight]
    #2388984 - 02/29/04 03:25 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

If it' still damp and contains things that are suitable for growth it could get bacteria/fungal growth.

If it's dry it's fine. Could lose potency but probably not much.


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OfflineHidingInPlainSight
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Re: LSA test #2 [Re: HidingInPlainSight]
    #2392737 - 03/01/04 11:13 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Well, I took the extract about 15 minutes ago.

I've noticed a slight heart rate increase, and tingling in the extremeties.

Obvious perception change, and noticing slight shifting/breathing, and increase in color intensity.

More updates to follow.  :gd_icon:


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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Re: LSA test #2 [Re: HidingInPlainSight]
    #2392753 - 03/01/04 11:16 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Go smoke your self some cannabis. :3rd_eye:


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OfflineHidingInPlainSight
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Re: LSA test #2 [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #2392913 - 03/02/04 12:04 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Unfortuantely, I live under the my parents.

Nothing like the 80.07.01 version of Chinacat Sunflower to get me in the mood.  :smile:

I'm also digging on Alan's Psychedelic Breakfast from the Atom Heart Mother album by Pink Floyd.

The tingliness in the extremities has gone away and there is a warm feeling all over, and a slightly noticable increase in body temperature.

Breathing/shifting is evident in the periphreal, but I have to try to see it.


Edited by HidingInPlainSight (03/02/04 12:07 AM)


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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Re: LSA test #2 [Re: HidingInPlainSight]
    #2392937 - 03/02/04 12:18 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Try to go outside for a bit. :gd_icon:


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OfflineHidingInPlainSight
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Re: LSA test #2 [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #2393179 - 03/02/04 01:43 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

From my experience, I'd say the "goal" of the project failed.

The goal was to get the full range of effects from LSA.

Anyways, I've come to the conclusion that LSA (via morning glory seeds) has its specific character but does not provide an equal/better alternative to LSD or psilocybin.

Is there a method of extraction to get close to pure LSA powder???


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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Re: LSA test #2 [Re: HidingInPlainSight]
    #2396351 - 03/02/04 08:08 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Why dont you just eat some virgin seeds? MGs suck all around.


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OfflineHidingInPlainSight
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Re: LSA test #2 [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #2401024 - 03/04/04 02:40 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

virgin seeds?


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OfflineHooty
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Re: LSA test #2 [Re: HidingInPlainSight]
    #2403598 - 03/04/04 06:46 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

he's talking about Ololiqui also known as Turbina Corymobosa or Rivea corymobosa. It's another vine that contains LSA in the seeds but much more potent than morning glories, supposedly a lot cleaner and more enjoyable trip too. The dosage is closer to HBW than MGs.


--------------------


Without love in the dream
It will never come true


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InvisibleAdden
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Re: LSA test #2 [Re: HidingInPlainSight]
    #2404928 - 03/05/04 12:55 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

This is from nan's. Can't link it for some reason, long read, but worth it.

I'm going to do HBWR, Flying Saucers, Heavenly Blues, and Ololiqui (all organic). See if the trips are different if they were extracted seperately. It's going to take two years for the HBWR but it will be worth it, as I know they are VERY potent seeds.


A Method for the Extraction and Usage of LSA from Hawaiian Baby Woodrose Seeds or Morning Glory Seeds (15 medium doses)
by Dave Mennenoh
HBWR: To dose, you don't have to remove all the shell, but just take a pocket knife and scrape all the "dark-brown" stuff off until the seed is completely a "creme" color.

Items you will need:
? 128 HBWR seeds (No hulls); seeds only. Or 3,500 MG seeds.
? A 50ml liquor bottle. These are the small 'airplane'-sized ones. It should state 50ml on it.
? A quantity of non-polar solvent. Coleman's White gas is perfect.
? 190 proof Everclear, or Vodka. Ethanol. (Bacardi 151)
? A small funnel comes in handy.
? A couple small jars with good lids.
? Some coffee filters.

Extraction Instructions:
1. Grind the seeds to a powder in a coffee grinder. Place the powder into a small jar and pour in enough of the White gas to fully cover the seeds. You can't really use too much, but leave enough room so it shakes well. Screw on the lid and shake well for a few minutes. Let it sit for an hour or so, shaking every so often. Shaking is good.
2. Pour the seed / solvent solution through a coffee filter and let it drain. Putting the coffee filter into a funnel first works well. The solvent is no longer needed but can be re-used, so save it. Spread out the seed mush on the coffee filter which it is in, on a plate or something, and let the seeds fully dry out. You should smell no solvent when it's fully evaporated. It may take a couple of hours. Don't breathe the solvent fumes, if you can help it.
3. Once the seeds are fully dried place the powder into a clean small jar, with a good tight fitting lid. Fill the 50ml liquor bottle with your Ethanol (this is to measure it) and then dump that amount into the small jar with the seed powder. Shake well. This should sit for 3 days and shake it whenever you think of it.
4. Okay 3 days have passed, it's almost time. Again, stick a coffee filter in a funnel and then pour the Ethanol / Seed solution into the filter. Let it drain thoroughly. Once it's close you can squeeze out excess alcohol, but be careful not to break the filter. You can now discard the seeds, as the good stuff is in the alcohol solution that's left.
5. Now pour the solution into the 50ml liquor bottle and let it sit for a couple of hours. Any seed powder remaining in the solution will settle to the bottom. Once it has, pour off the alcohol, rinse the seed crap out of the bottle, and pour the alcohol solution back in. Add enough of the clean alcohol to fill the bottle and you're done.
6. You now have 50ml of drinkable alcohol containing the extract from 150 HBWR seeds, which should be a yellowish, clear liquid, that looks much like tequila.
7. Normal dosage of HBWR is 5-12 seeds, MG about 200-400 seeds and it's easy to measure. You can either get an oral syringe at any drug store that has a 1-5ml gradated gauge on the side, or use measuring spoons. 1tsp=5ml of liquid. 1ml of the 'tincture' = 3 seeds. I've found that 3ml of the liquid works very well. Mix with water, or anything else.
8. This method works very well, is easy to dose, easy to prepare, and you should not experience any nausea. Also, because the LSA's are extracted they take way less longer to start working. Expect to feel the effects within an hour.
9. Keep your little bottle in the fridge. Heat is bad for all tryptamines.
10. Something to note: You can evaporate off the alcohol and you will be left with the alkaloids which you can put into gel caps etc. But, this is harder to dose, etc. I've found the alcohol method very easy and precise.


TECHNICAL EXTRACTION PROCESS
EXTRACTION:
The method I use is a general one - I copied it from one used by some scientists to extract mescaline from peyote, but I have since seen close variations used on many plants. This procedure is followed, whenever a plant is studied for its alkaloids. A few ingredients and bits of equipment are necessary. I am a chemist, and have my own chemistry set. I have considered manufacture, but I find that there are enough interesting things to do just extracting natural compounds, which is much easier, indeed, possible in the home.
You will need:
A few flasks, glass containers, etc. of suitable sizes, depending on how large a volume you are playing with. A separating funnel is almost essential - this could be tricky to get without a little effort. If you don't know, it is an inverted conical flask with a hole at the top to pour stuff in , and a tap at the bottom to let the stuff out accurately . It is used for separating immiscible layers. A vacuum filtration apparatus would be very useful; I did have a bodgy one rigged up myself, but it was always difficult to use. Some kind of still, though, is pretty important to have, although conceivably for a once off you could get by without it, if you don't mind breathing in a lot of solvent. As far as still goes it is to recover solvent, and leave goodness as a residue at the bottom. I use a bit of quickfit I nicked: a round bottom flask, short column, thermometer on top, and a small condenser... takes for ever, but don't expect to follow this procedure in anything under a day. Other bits and pieces: A filtre of some sort is a necessity; preferably a good one, with a vacuum pump if you are filtring gluggy stuff (cactus is the worst, sticky goo, e.g., other things like seeds and bark are better).
People have been known to use such devices as coffee filtres, t-shirts, tins with holes in the bottom (as a filtre press) and so on. Whatever you can scrounge. A lab buchner funnel, sidearm flask, and venturi pump are ideal. All this stuff is standard in any chemical lab, regardless of discipline. (cont'd in part ii) CTION part ii: Chemicals necessary: The paydirt (obviously) Some solvents: methanol (lots), and a non polar solvent. Some people use ether - this is dangerous and doesn't dissolve everything. Your best bet is probably something chlorinated - I use dichloromethane, although chloroform will do (don't breath too much - it is fun at first, but ends up making you feel ill). Drycleaning fluid... petrol.... I don't know what you have access to.
Dichloromethane is good because it is non-toxic, volatile, and a good solvent. It has a major drawback: separation is often very difficult once you have placed your gluggy plant muck in there. The shot is to use large quantities of everything, and be patient. You will also need an acid (Hydrogen chloride is good) and a base/alkali (Sodium hydroxide is good - that way, if you stuff up, you end up synthesizing salt instead of something nasty.) Also useful: acid/base indicator paper, boiling chips (porcelain grains) and activated charcoal - see local chemist.
The idea is this: Most fun compounds (the only exception is maybe THC, and alcohol if you count that) are basic - they contain nitrogen. So: in general, if you react them with hydrochloric acid, the form a water soluble chloride. If you react them with dilute base in the aqueous phase, they go back to being a base, which is insoluble in water, but soluble in organic non-polar solvents (like CH2Cl2). So, the theory is, that only a base will go from water to solvent and back to water etc. when changed from acidic to basic and back to acidic. This gives you a way of removing all the other crap which is not alkaloid from a sample. That is the theory. When I do this, if I can get down to some brown or green sludge that I can throw down or smoke, I am happy with a good days work. Ideally, you should end up with lovely white crystals, but I think that would require a lot of time and effort, and indeed a considerable loss of product in the process.
Procedure:
Get your stuff. Dry it as much as possible - this makes life easier later on. You will never get all the water out, but too bad. Chop it up as fine as possible: a blender comes in handy. You may wish to chop then dry. A word of caution : try to avoid exposing your stuff to excessive heat. I dry in low heat oven. Heat and air destroy good compounds from upwards of 100 degs C. All this bit will depend on exactly what you are extracting. Once it is finely divided - powdered if possible, put it in a big container, and cover it with methanol. Alternatives to methanol here are ethanol (not as good) and acetone (good solvent - rips the crap out of anything, but is more reactive - can react with your actives). Now, depending on what your stuff is, you have to let the methanol have time to remove it all. This is best done by leaving in a quiet warm place for a few days, even up to a week, and shaking it occasionally so it is mixed. Some papers recommend solvent extraction (soxhlet apparatus) and refluxing at the boiling point of the methanol (80 degs or so - I can't remember). I usually just rely on time to get the good stuff out. When you are ready (early in the morning), filtre the muck, to give you methanol+dissolved brown gunk, and a residue soaked with methanol. The residue still contains a lot of good stuff, so soak again for an hour, and repeat, and do a third time if you are feeling generous (3 is the magic number in extraction work).
When you are done, there is another thing you can do finally, if desired: depending on what your stuff is, mix it up with dilute hydrochloric acid, 1M is appropriate. let stand for an hour, then filtre (this may be very difficult) That will get the last of the alkaloids out of the substrate. (continued in part iii) EXTRACTION part iii You now have a methanol-plant stuff mixture, and a dilute HCL-plant stuff mixture, if you bothered to do that part. Evaporate the methanol, to leave a small amount of goo. This will contain water, a bit of methanol, and all kinds of resins and muck, and if you are lucky, the alkaloids. If a very quick and crude extraction was all that was desired, then after stripping the last of the methanol with vacuum if possible, this residue could be smoked eaten or whathaveyou. I leave that to your discretion.
However, if a cleaner product is desired, the double layer extraction will need to be performed. Combine the evaporated methanol gunge with the hydrochloric acid filtrate if you have any. If you don't then mix the methanol stuff with an excess of dilute (1M) HCl. Feel free to filtre again at this point. Anything of marginal solubility here is no good to you. Get the stuff as clean as possible. Boiling with activated charcoal is another useful trick for removing gunge. Just boil it up, and filter off the charcoal for a cleaner brew. You should now have an acid aqueous solution of alkaloids and water solubles from the plant. Take your acidic solution, and bassify. This is done by mixing in dilute sodium hydroxide (I use up to 5M to save on total volume. Be careful with conc NaOH - apart from eating skin, it eats alkaloids) As you mix in the NaOH, you will see swirls of white precipitate form and redissolve. Continue until the white swirls stay, and until the solution is quite cloudy. Indicator paper is necessary to see that the solution is basic.
If you can't get indicator paper, you can make an indicator by boiling up some purple flowers. The dyes in most flowers go bright red in acid, and green in strong alkali. Just a drop of dye and a drop of mixture should tell you what is acid or base.
The white precipitate is the alkaloids. The more the better. Next, add equal volume of non-polar solvent (dichloromethane) to the mix. Place in separating funnel, and shake. Separate. This may be very difficult or slow. Adding more solvent, more basic water, etc. may help. Adding lots of salt to the water layer will help break an emulsion. Ideally you want it do this step 3 times - to extract as much as possible from the water layer into the organic. I find this part very difficult, and you have to accept that you will lose quite a lot of material here. It is, however probably easier with some plants that others: cactus is very difficult, barks and seeds would be easier. Use plenty of salt, and agitate to separate. When you have finished extraction, chuck the basic water layer. The solvent layer is kept, and can be backwashed with salty water for a cleaner mixture.
The solvent can now be dried, (using salt or some dry powder, the filtred) (I don't usually bother with this - the old hairdryer at the end can remove some last solvent and water) then strip the solvent in a vacuum to get your final product - some kind of syrup could be expected. This is super concentrated, but may only be half the strength of the original. e.g. put in enough for 10 doses of morning glory seeds, get back 5 doses or more of concentrated alkaloids. If it is desired to take the process still further, you can do the obvious thing - mix your solvent layer with dilute acid again and extract back into water. Acid layer could be evaporated under vacuum to give salts of alkaloids. Alternatively, if the organic layer were scrupulously dry, bases could be salted out with some organic acid - a tartrate, oxalate could be formed. I have never bothered with such things - you would need a lot of pure extract to be bothered.
The acid-base extraction process can be continued as many times as is desired. If a truly pure product is desired, the only way to go from here is chromatography. I have never used this at home, and wouldn't think it was worth the trouble, but there will be papers available on what was used for a particular extraction case.


--------------------



Outdoor Mushroom Cultivation


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InvisibleAdden
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Re: LSA test #2 [Re: Adden]
    #2404938 - 03/05/04 12:58 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Oh, and I'd be very careful dosing as alkaloid level can vary so greatly.

The White Gas has gotta be taking some of the nasties out.

I'm going to work my way up with proper mg doses and then just dose with some 151, or capsules, depends on what I end up with.


--------------------



Outdoor Mushroom Cultivation


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> The Ethnobotanical Garden

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