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OfflinePeyote Road
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Re: How does Jesus feel about psychedelics? [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #23531463 - 08/11/16 12:45 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
Quote:

KMt said:
Ya Mashiach followed the Torah, the first 5 books of the Bible.

Genesis 1:29. He, nor any other Israelites had any problems with psychedelics. You shouldn't either. Selah.




Is that a real thang from the Bible?




It's real in the sense that is quoting a verse where God says he gives us every plant, but it does not explicitly mention psychedelics (though they should be included by default, because it does not say "I give you every plant except such and such").

Opponents of the verse will argue it is talking about food. But the line between food and drug blurs at some point.

Personally, I cite Wisdom 1:14:

14For he fashioned all things that they might have being,

and the creatures of the world are wholesome;

There is not a destructive drug among them

nor any domain of Hades* on earth


I think it's pretty clear from this verse, that the natural plant drugs were created for a good purpose and were not intended to be destructive toward man, but instead probably intended primarily as medicine.

I have studied herbal medicine a little bit and the healing potential of plants is incredible. This of course includes plants like marijuana but there are also hundreds of other plants with milder psychoactive effects, or merely physiological effects which can be beneficial to man.


I think we have to treat all medicinal plants as a whole, because nowhere does scripture suggest that some plants are to be excluded. I see no bases for example, for saying that marijuana is not a medicinal plant, but such and such other herb is.
Hence, from a Biblical perspective I think we have to conclude that psychoactive plants are good, when used with prudence and care of course and that we have a God-given right to use them. 

Prohibition is UN-Christian and denies us our basic right to use nature as God intended us to be able to use it.


--------------------
The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra


Edited by Peyote Road (08/11/16 12:50 PM)


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Offlineyogashaman21
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Re: How does Jesus feel about psychedelics? [Re: Asante]
    #23532227 - 08/11/16 05:11 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
Jesus loves the Shroomery and the good people in it.

Jesus doesnt want you to follow him, he wants you to be like him.




this sounds cult-like if you ask me. "He wants you to be like him"...? Who is he, Michael Jordan?

I think if there is such a think like jesus he would want people to express their own unique individuality, not to "be like him." Who wants to be like someone else.


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OfflineLucisM
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Re: How does Jesus feel about psychedelics? [Re: yogashaman21]
    #23532265 - 08/11/16 05:28 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

yogashaman21 said:


I think if there is such a think like jesus he would want people to express their own unique individuality, not to "be like him." Who wants to be like someone else.





I view Jesus wanting people to be like him, meaning Christ consciousness, and I see nothing wrong with that, do you?


--------------------
©️


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Offlineyogashaman21
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Re: How does Jesus feel about psychedelics? [Re: Lucis]
    #23532272 - 08/11/16 05:33 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Fennario said:
Quote:

yogashaman21 said:


I think if there is such a think like jesus he would want people to express their own unique individuality, not to "be like him." Who wants to be like someone else.





I view Jesus wanting people to be like him, meaning Christ consciousness, and I see nothing wrong with that, do you?




Yes, actually I do. I wouldn't want to be a rip-off of anybody else, ever. Not Mohammed or Moses or Buddha or Christ. It actually takes guts to think for yourself, not just want to be a clone of someone else.


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OfflinePeyote Road
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Re: How does Jesus feel about psychedelics? [Re: yogashaman21]
    #23532526 - 08/11/16 07:10 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I think Jesus wanted everyone to be like him in the sense of spiritually alive, but that doesn't mean everyone has to express their spiritual life the way he did. A lot of Christians think to be spiritually alive means to act like Jesus or spend your life serving the poor and being really devoted to God (and it could be like that) but spiritual life doesn't have to look like that in all people.

But is wanting your friend to be healthy and spiritually alive as opposed to walking a dangerous and/or self destructive path wanting him to be a clone of you? Desiring the good of another, isn't a limitation on their freedom. You can't force someone to make good choices, but you can want that for them and do all you can to help them reach that end.


--------------------
The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra


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Invisiblepineninja
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Re: How does Jesus feel about psychedelics? [Re: Peyote Road]
    #23532562 - 08/11/16 07:21 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I'm ok with it.:thumbsup:


--------------------
Just a fool on the hill.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: How does Jesus feel about psychedelics? [Re: Peyote Road]
    #23533271 - 08/11/16 11:05 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I won't pretend to be an expert in Egyptian matters, I'm not. I've read some on Egypt, and Egyptologist Bob Brier was my professor. But you could read the same text that influenced me - D.M. Murdock's Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection. I also studied Jewish and Christian history and theology in seminary, and never did I encounter anything more psychedelic than the Essenes, the Therapeutae, the various Gnostic sects, the eremites and the Hesychasts. Fasting (and going into ketosis), ascetic sleep deprivation, social isolation, celibacy and chastity, and prologued contemplative prayer in combination can result in the same forms of dissociation that the Yogas can, or Buddhist meditation. Substances are not the only possibility, indeed substances speak to shamanic practices not Yoga (even if mushroom Soma did originate Yoga as some suggest), but such were not the origin of Hebrew myth and ritual. Christianity draws on Judaism (which was influenced of course by Egyptian culture since Moses), and Hellenism, which includes Platonic philosophy, and Plato's influence by Pythagorean elements.

What some churches may have implemented is a far cry from my buddy Clark Heinrich's insistence that A. muscaria is behind all religious history. Andijah Puharich learned Egyptian hieroglyphics just to prove his theory about A. muscaria and Egyptians. I don't know what the possibility of conifer forests in Egypt was as A. muscaria only grows in a rhizomorphic relationship with certain conifer trees. John Allegro had his own theory. Instead of reducing the cause of religious history to an effect of a mushroom species, it might behoove us to view the whole series of theories and associated phenomena to Synchronicity. All of these theories can be overlaid on history and each one has its own unique fit when looked at globally, an entirely different premise about Reality arises that is non-causal.

Jacob Boehme knew something about Mushroomic Mysteries 400+ years ago:




Then there is discovery:  http://distelrath.tripod.com/fabbro.htm ; But this basilica, like Boehme's Christa Testamente above, is exceptional not reflective of some reductionistic 'cause' of Christianity. Some mystics may have had shamanic or sacramental sentiments. Today, we are many relative to the past.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineEywa_devotee
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Re: How does Jesus feel about psychedelics? [Re: pineninja]
    #23533297 - 08/11/16 11:19 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Any god that justifies murder in their name and tolerates it is not a benevolent god at all, rather it is a predatory thought given the form as a god. The true reason Jesus died on the cross is because of his pride, that is specifically: I am the way the truth and the life, no one gets to the father except through me. This same train of thought is also used by a lot of fraudulent Hindu gurus as well.

In the end it was: Father why have you forsaken me? I have forsaken you due to your arrogant pride, for you have put yourself above all others and used my name in vein for your own glory. For this act you must experience death.

You will incarnate once again and all those who ignore your teachings yet worship your physical form will come to you on the great day of judgement. You wished to have my power and wield my authority as your own; this wish has been granted to you. My son, you will learn to accept that I am your father and your God. You have died for this sin against Me. Admit your mistake and you will be forgiven to once again be at peace with me, continue to rebel against me and accept your own dissolution. It is your choice, as i have given you free will like onto a God in the fleshly form of Man, to be or not to be it is your choice. It is time, It is finished.

During the three days i do not know what happened, but without a chaser it is what it is. It would explain what the world is still so messed up. One thought for the Christians out there, where the rubber hits the road.. If you were to die right now and be asked if you even tried to follow the teachings of Christ, could you honestly say Yes, my God i tried.


--------------------
"Love one another." "To Love is to know me." "Love is the Law, Love under Will." "In Compassion, all sorrows end." Regardless of the Master, the message is the same- Choose love and you shall live, Choose Fear and you shall die. Help bring peace to this Earth: Love one another, and serve others before yourself.


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Offlineendogenous
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Re: How does Jesus feel about psychedelics? [Re: Lucis]
    #23533492 - 08/12/16 01:28 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Fennario said:
Quote:

yogashaman21 said:


I think if there is such a think like jesus he would want people to express their own unique individuality, not to "be like him." Who wants to be like someone else.





I view Jesus wanting people to be like him, meaning Christ consciousness, and I see nothing wrong with that, do you?



You can't know who Christ is, or how Christ was, unless you know who God is because Christ's main Mission was to do what God wanted.

(Christ said) "I can do nothing of my own accord. I pass judgment on people as I am taught by God, and my judgment is just, because my aim is not my own will, but the Will of Those who sent me." -- St. John, 5,30


--------------------
The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.


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Offlineyogashaman21
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Re: How does Jesus feel about psychedelics? [Re: endogenous]
    #23534103 - 08/12/16 09:37 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

this whole thread is kind of stupid actually. Who cares if someone from a few thousand years ago liked or didn't like drugs?


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Invisiblefilthyknees
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Re: How does Jesus feel about psychedelics? [Re: yogashaman21]
    #23534112 - 08/12/16 09:40 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Thank you...................

On a forum about mind expansion people cling to shreds of brainwashing. Makes me sick.



"It's real in the sense that is quoting a verse where God says"

What the fuck can this please get moved to the religion section?

I mean `spirituality and deception`(sp?)


--------------------
But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go
If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow
That it's one thing to try and another to fly
You get there quicker just a step at a time
It's one thing to bark, another to bite
The show ain't over till you pack up at night


Edited by filthyknees (08/12/16 10:06 AM)


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: How does Jesus feel about psychedelics? [Re: Eywa_devotee]
    #23535034 - 08/12/16 02:20 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Eywa_devotee said:
Any god that justifies murder in their name and tolerates it is not a benevolent god at all, rather it is a predatory thought given the form as a god. The true reason Jesus died on the cross is because of his pride, that is specifically: I am the way the truth and the life, no one gets to the father except through me. This same train of thought is also used by a lot of fraudulent Hindu gurus as well.

In the end it was: Father why have you forsaken me? I have forsaken you due to your arrogant pride, for you have put yourself above all others and used my name in vein for your own glory. For this act you must experience death.

You will incarnate once again and all those who ignore your teachings yet worship your physical form will come to you on the great day of judgement. You wished to have my power and wield my authority as your own; this wish has been granted to you. My son, you will learn to accept that I am your father and your God. You have died for this sin against Me. Admit your mistake and you will be forgiven to once again be at peace with me, continue to rebel against me and accept your own dissolution. It is your choice, as i have given you free will like onto a God in the fleshly form of Man, to be or not to be it is your choice. It is time, It is finished.

During the three days i do not know what happened, but without a chaser it is what it is. It would explain what the world is still so messed up. One thought for the Christians out there, where the rubber hits the road.. If you were to die right now and be asked if you even tried to follow the teachings of Christ, could you honestly say Yes, my God i tried.




You misunderstand so much of the Christian mythos I don't know where to begin. (1) Pride has absolutely nothing to do with the myth, and (2) You are confusing myth, midrash, metaphor and metaphysics with historicity. The person of Iesous is about kenosis, self-emptying - exactly the opposite of pride. You've got it bass ackwards. :lol:

Christianity attempted to adopt YHWH of the Tenach (OT) to the New Covenant. Harold Bloom does a good job of showing how less-than seamless the attempt was in Jesus and Yahweh.The 'GOD concept' as described in the Tenach is NOT GOD. So you've confused the mythic picture of GOD in the guise of a Middle Eastern king or despot, with an indescribable Mystery. The fact is that existence embodies both good and evil, and the notion of GOD as the author of evil is called theodicy. The brighter the light, the darker the shadow, and if light symbolizes Goodness/GOD, creation is the opacity which throws a shadow. Here shadow means evil, as in Jung's concept of the Shadow as opposite tendencies in the human psyche which healthy people do not give reign to. Bottom line: evil is relative, there is no absolute evil. It is a necessary correlate or side-effect to the limitations of existence and has nothing to do with the essence of GOD. "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things" - Isaiah 45:7. In the Tenach, Satan [Adversary in Hebrew] works for GOD. In the NT the notion of evil is given another meaning. Moreover the ideas of biblical demonology are complex. Satan and Lucifer [Light-Bearer in Greek] are not identical beings, but a whole infernal hierarchy to mirror the celestial hierarchy (i.e., Seraphim, Cherubim, Thrones, Dominions, etc.)

The vicarious sacrifice theology became the dominant theology in Christianity. The pseudo-gnostic Gospel of Thomas, influenced by Indian thought (Thomas established a church in India) is a theology of realization - very different). "My GOD, my GOD, why hast thou forsaken me?" happens to be the first line of the 22nd Psalm which the figure of Iesous was said to pray at a moment when he was experiencing human mortality without awareness of the Divine Presence. Several Gnostic sects described this moment differently. Iesous' sacrifice was a culmination of Jewish ritual practices wherein He became the 'Pascal Lamb,' the lamb without blemish which was sacrificed in temple Judaism (before the temple was destroyed in 70 CE). In Catholic liturgy: "Lamb of GOD who takes away the sins of the world, have mercy on us." 

Without this sacrificial death (according to the internal logic of a propitiating death theology), a 'portal' was opened whereby everyone can enter into a relationship with the Sacred: "And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom..." - Matthew 27:51. Symbolically, this was the veil that separated everyone but the High Priest from entering the innermost sanctum, the Holy-of-Holies. Now, ALL human beings could enter in, without need for the Jerusalem Temple because of this revelation: "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?" - 1 Corinthians 3:16. In other words, without the sacrificial death of the Lamb of God, there would be no possibility of salvation for the world. HOWEVER...One is speaking in mythic and cosmic categories, not mechanical processes based in a historical event. Saint Paul cared nothing about a historical Iesous, he was focused on the Mystery of what he called "the resurrected Christ" and what that meant for humanity (see The Mysticism of Paul the Apostle by Albert Schweitzer if you really want to KNOW about the inner meaning of Christian enlightenment, i.e., salvation).


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Invisiblefilthyknees
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Re: How does Jesus feel about psychedelics? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #23535548 - 08/12/16 05:25 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

:yawn:


--------------------
But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go
If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow
That it's one thing to try and another to fly
You get there quicker just a step at a time
It's one thing to bark, another to bite
The show ain't over till you pack up at night


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Offlineflickedbic
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Re: How does Jesus feel about psychedelics? [Re: filthyknees]
    #23535951 - 08/12/16 07:51 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:


In the end it was: Father why have you forsaken me?




Actually in the end it was "It is finished".

The "Why have you forsaken me" was in reference to Psalm 22, written 1000 years before Christ and the crucifixion (they didn't have the numbering system then so they would use the first sentence to reference a text)... the last line of Psalm 22 is the victorious "for he has done it."


That psalm from the Old Testament, 1000 years before Christ, is actually a prophecy... one Christ fulfilled with stunning accuracy:

Quote:

Psalm 22:14-18 New King James Version

14 I am poured out like water,
And all My bones are out of joint;
My heart is like wax;
It has melted within Me.
15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd,
And My tongue clings to My jaws;
You have brought Me to the dust of death.
16 For dogs have surrounded Me;
The congregation of the wicked has enclosed Me.
They pierced My hands and My feet;
17 I can count all My bones.
They look and stare at Me.
18 They divide My garments among them,
And for My clothing they cast lots.





--------------------
Favorite entheogen experiences in descending order:
1)Combo of oral DMT + smoked Bufotenine
2)Amanita (urine drank twice)
3)Mushrooms > Achuma 16"+cid(still need higher dose Achuma)> Cid (still need high dose)
4)Morning Glory-HBWR (+cumin, cinnamon aldehyde adducts) > Methyl chavicol (need more activators)
5)Salvia (need to try quid)


All readable matter in the above post is ficticious... any similarities to real life are purely coincidental.

Blessing.


Edited by flickedbic (08/12/16 07:57 PM)


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InvisibletheGODSmademedoit

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Re: How does Jesus feel about psychedelics? [Re: flickedbic]
    #23536203 - 08/12/16 09:04 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Of course jesus loves them, probably more than all the little children.            Anyways Jesus is horus later known as the hidden god Amen Ra. Truthfully all ancient enlightened ones where in contact with entities through the DMT experience. From the land of khem came alchemy  and the dmt spice is the alchemist main ingredient for transmutations on the spiritual plane. Without access with the dmt key transmutations of lead to gold arent possible. But hell yeah all them was trippin balls.


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Offlineendogenous
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Re: How does Jesus feel about psychedelics? [Re: flickedbic]
    #23536753 - 08/13/16 12:54 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

flickedbic said:
That psalm from the Old Testament, 1000 years before Christ, is actually a prophecy... one Christ fulfilled with stunning accuracy:




King David was Christ.  He wrote:

"I will declare the decree, the Lord hath said unto me,
'Thou art My Son,
today have I
begotten thee.'"
-- Psalm 2,7 (King James Version)


--------------------
The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.


Edited by endogenous (08/13/16 01:41 AM)


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Offlineflickedbic
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Re: How does Jesus feel about psychedelics? [Re: endogenous]
    #23537253 - 08/13/16 08:18 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Bible scholars talk of “types” of Christ that prefigure him. There is nobody of whom this is more true than David. Of course where David was indeed sinful, our Master was not


http://www.patheos.com/blogs/adrianwarnock/2013/10/how-king-david-reminds-us-of-christ-jesus/

See for example Psalm 51, where David pleads for mercy after his adultery.


Christ is without sin:
Quote:

It was the precious blood of Christ, the sinless, spotless Lamb of God.



1 Peter 1:19

Quote:

For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.


(Heb. 4:15 NASB).


--------------------
Favorite entheogen experiences in descending order:
1)Combo of oral DMT + smoked Bufotenine
2)Amanita (urine drank twice)
3)Mushrooms > Achuma 16"+cid(still need higher dose Achuma)> Cid (still need high dose)
4)Morning Glory-HBWR (+cumin, cinnamon aldehyde adducts) > Methyl chavicol (need more activators)
5)Salvia (need to try quid)


All readable matter in the above post is ficticious... any similarities to real life are purely coincidental.

Blessing.


Edited by flickedbic (08/13/16 08:34 AM)


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OfflineHardrock3742
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Re: How does Jesus feel about psychedelics? [Re: flickedbic]
    #23537328 - 08/13/16 08:57 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Thats the problem with the bible...anyone can interpret it a million different ways.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: How does Jesus feel about psychedelics? [Re: filthyknees]
    #23538124 - 08/13/16 02:15 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

filthyknees said:
:yawn:




Probably slept through high school too. :lol:


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlineflickedbic
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Re: How does Jesus feel about psychedelics? [Re: Hardrock3742]
    #23538137 - 08/13/16 02:22 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Not if it is to make any sense, as we just saw with "King David was christ"...

I guess that is why 2 Timothy 2:15 says:

"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."


--------------------
Favorite entheogen experiences in descending order:
1)Combo of oral DMT + smoked Bufotenine
2)Amanita (urine drank twice)
3)Mushrooms > Achuma 16"+cid(still need higher dose Achuma)> Cid (still need high dose)
4)Morning Glory-HBWR (+cumin, cinnamon aldehyde adducts) > Methyl chavicol (need more activators)
5)Salvia (need to try quid)


All readable matter in the above post is ficticious... any similarities to real life are purely coincidental.

Blessing.


Edited by flickedbic (08/13/16 02:30 PM)


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