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InvisiblePaulyAnna
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Registered: 09/01/15
Posts: 200
Choice and Decision
    #23525588 - 08/09/16 06:14 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Alan Watts called it "a mental wobbling".

Is there truly any "wrong" or "right" decision?

Does "it all come out in the wash" and work together in some unforeseen way, individually and collectively, for the "good"?

Additional comments on this Watts lecture excerpt and video are welcome.


--------------------
Let it be, let it be, let it be, let it be
Whisper words of wisdom, let it be


Edited by PaulyAnna (08/09/16 06:34 PM)


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Choice and Decision [Re: PaulyAnna]
    #23525663 - 08/09/16 06:34 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Not going to watch the vid.  I find it is about commitment.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Choice and Decision [Re: PaulyAnna]
    #23525863 - 08/09/16 07:44 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

PaulyAnna said:
Alan Watts called it "a mental wobbling".

Is there truly any "wrong" or "right" decision?

Does "it all come out in the wash" and work together in some unforeseen way, individually and collectively, for the "good"?

Additional comments on this Watts lecture excerpt and video are welcome.





The only thing that comes out in the wash is dryer lint.  Of course there are wrong decisions.  Make one and find out the hard way.

There is no collective good.  No good deed goes unpunished, just like socialist society punishes everyone just for participating.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Choice and Decision [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #23526514 - 08/09/16 11:00 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

LunarEclipse said:


The only thing that comes out in the wash is dryer lint.  Of course there are wrong decisions.  Make one and find out the hard way.






so true

then again

"truly any "wrong" or "right" " is so ambiguous as to be meaningless ...

That one doesn't have to make things worse, after screwing up, by taking everything personally, is a separate matter.


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Choice and Decision [Re: PaulyAnna]
    #23528058 - 08/10/16 12:04 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

i went through an early crisis, and ended up a factory worker. I clung to this hellish existence for nearly 10 years!! When it was over I had deep regret for being such a fkin idiot until i dug that i had always a choice. it was ME who was getting up and doing it, noone else, and the reason i stuck at it was cause i was going by the 'better the devil you know than the devil you don't'! trip. meaning i was not willing to trust the unknown and use my POWER of choice. THAT is what fks a lot of people over and why they will cling to the most desperate existences


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Choice and Decision [Re: PaulyAnna]
    #23532386 - 08/11/16 06:15 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

We call it a "bad" or "wrong" decision when the outcome is not as we desire.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Choice and Decision [Re: laughingdog]
    #23532732 - 08/11/16 08:11 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
Quote:

LunarEclipse said:


The only thing that comes out in the wash is dryer lint.  Of course there are wrong decisions.  Make one and find out the hard way.






so true

then again

"truly any "wrong" or "right" " is so ambiguous as to be meaningless ...

That one doesn't have to make things worse, after screwing up, by taking everything personally, is a separate matter.




Apparently you've never really screwed up, or you wouldn't consider it ambiguous.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Choice and Decision [Re: laughingdog] * 1
    #23533269 - 08/11/16 11:04 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:

"truly any "wrong" or "right" " is so ambiguous as to be meaningless ...





I could write a novel about the many times I thought I made a "mistake" or did something
"wrong" and it transformed into a wonderful turn of events I could have never anticipated.


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Choice and Decision [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23533371 - 08/11/16 11:58 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Likewise.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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OfflineByCoverOfNight
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Re: Choice and Decision [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23533388 - 08/12/16 12:07 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Whatever the story, ending up in jail/prison for a long time is something that occurs when the "wrong" / "bad" choices are made, or you are just very unlucky. Or if you get drunk and run over your dog accidentally. Yeah there are definitely very, very bad choices one could make.


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Choice and Decision [Re: ByCoverOfNight]
    #23533395 - 08/12/16 12:13 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

ByCoverOfNight said:
Whatever the story, ending up in jail/prison for a long time is something that occurs when the "wrong" / "bad" choices are made, or you are just very unlucky.



IME, life is nowhere near as black and white as that.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Choice and Decision [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23535135 - 08/12/16 02:55 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I have found life to be like that.  Either people accept and understand your choices or they punish the shit out of you to correct your malfunction.  Most people get away with possessing drugs, lot's get hard time.  You cannot know what the fear is like and the loss without having experienced.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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InvisiblePaulyAnna
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Re: Choice and Decision [Re: Morel Guy]
    #23535597 - 08/12/16 05:40 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

LunarEclipse said:

The only thing that comes out in the wash is dryer lint.  Of course there are wrong decisions.  Make one and find out the hard way.

There is no collective good.  No good deed goes unpunished, just like socialist society punishes everyone just for participating.



The only thing. . . Of course there are. . . There is no. . . No. . .

Seems like you have your mind made up and the color grey might no exist.?


Quote:

zzripz said:
i went through an early crisis, and ended up a factory worker. I clung to this hellish existence for nearly 10 years!! When it was over I had deep regret for being such a fkin idiot until i dug that i had always a choice. it was ME who was getting up and doing it, noone else, and the reason i stuck at it was cause i was going by the 'better the devil you know than the devil you don't'! trip. meaning i was not willing to trust the unknown and use my POWER of choice. THAT is what fks a lot of people over and why they will cling to the most desperate existences



For those almost 10 years, do you feel they were wasted? Were life lessons taught and learned? Did you have an impact on other's lives?


Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
We call it a "bad" or "wrong" decision when the outcome is not as we desire.



I agree, most of the time this is so, but have you had an outcome wherein you traced back to a decision and felt it was good/right? Also, we tend to label decisions bad/wrong when some level of mental or physical suffering is experienced. This is not always so though.


Quote:

laughingdog said:

"truly any "wrong" or "right" " is so ambiguous as to be meaningless ...quote]
I can't find bullet proof evidence for this statement, but this is bearing witness with me.

Maybe the good/bad & right/wrong decision is just a microscopic thread in a very large and beautiful tapestry that we cannot see nor perceive as such. If only we could know and understand from an omnipresent, collective consciousness things might make a more sense.


Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:

laughingdog said:

"truly any "wrong" or "right" " is so ambiguous as to be meaningless ...





I could write a novel about the many times I thought I made a "mistake" or did something
"wrong" and it transformed into a wonderful turn of events I could have never anticipated.



Thought being the key word in your statement. Does a decision boiled down to being good/bad because we believe it to be so?

^^^^^^^
This is the heart of the matter I'm really trying to get at with my questions and all of your subsequent statements and lack of agreement.


Quote:

ByCoverOfNight said:
Whatever the story, ending up in jail/prison for a long time is something that occurs when the "wrong" / "bad" choices are made, or you are just very unlucky. Or if you get drunk and run over your dog accidentally. Yeah there are definitely very, very bad choices one could make.




With these examples, immediately, yes. But over a period of years, yes.? Again, usually the ones having made them and experienced their consequences can say, though others may disagree.


Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Quote:

ByCoverOfNight said:
Whatever the story, ending up in jail/prison for a long time is something that occurs when the "wrong" / "bad" choices are made, or you are just very unlucky.



IME, life is nowhere near as black and white as that.



:manofapproval:


--------------------
Let it be, let it be, let it be, let it be
Whisper words of wisdom, let it be


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Choice and Decision [Re: PaulyAnna]
    #23538212 - 08/13/16 03:02 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Quote:
    zzripz said:
    i went through an early crisis, and ended up a factory worker. I clung to this hellish existence for nearly 10 years!! When it was over I had deep regret for being such a fkin idiot until i dug that i had always a choice. it was ME who was getting up and doing it, noone else, and the reason i stuck at it was cause i was going by the 'better the devil you know than the devil you don't'! trip. meaning i was not willing to trust the unknown and use my POWER of choice. THAT is what fks a lot of people over and why they will cling to the most desperate existences


For those almost 10 years, do you feel they were wasted? Were life lessons taught and learned? Did you have an impact on other's lives?




Well. what got me over a deep despair when I would think about such a 'waste' was the point I was trying to make. the realization that it was my choice to work at the factories because of my fear of the 'better the devil you know than the devil you don't'. But I did learn stuff. For a big one I learnt what it actually feels like to be a cog in the machine which is what factor-ies were designed for. So I can empathize with people who have experienced that hell. I have actually lived it so that has deepened my experience of it, but I would NOT recommend it.


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: Choice and Decision [Re: PaulyAnna]
    #23540738 - 08/14/16 12:32 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

There's truth and sin (wrong mindedness).

Good is truth and sin is bad.

'Right' and 'Wrong' are terms applicable to an objective.

The question then, is; is the objective good or bad?

There's a common argument people put forth that evil is subjective, in that it depends upon the individuals viewpoint, but there's nothing more distant from the truth and the opinion in itself as a perfect demonstration of sin.  Even the supposedly insane person with no social regard still have the essence of truth at the core of their being and it makes no difference if it's even recognised or expressed.  There are no exceptions.

Everything that is not of the light is wrong mindedness, which is a fight against the self - a futile, perpetual effort of pride battling against the only thing that truly is, but that which is anti-ego and thus something that the ego will not accept in any way, shape or form.

When you discover the light, decisions become even easier because the dark means and dark ends are so clearly apparent in contrast to the light.


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: Choice and Decision [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #23540766 - 08/14/16 12:40 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Well, it depends how you think about it..

If you have a negative thought it can affect your actions and that it self is a prose of truth..

So basically if you feel youve made a wrong choice..it is therefore a wrong choice..based on the emotions/regret you have to supply yourself with! which is a form of energy in our bodies and mind..which is why strain exists..and pain etc!


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: Choice and Decision [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #23540795 - 08/14/16 12:53 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

'Truth' is the absolute holy essence of your very being.

It's not a perspective of something in the physical, which in itself can be argued as a 'dream'.

Truth is what Mystics yearn for (and everyone else subconsciously) as life only gives them a peep behind the veil at best.

Truth too could be regarded as the 'place' we are going to.


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Choice and Decision [Re: ByCoverOfNight]
    #23542286 - 08/14/16 09:30 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

ByCoverOfNight said:

Whatever the story, ending up in jail/prison for a long time is something that occurs when the "wrong" / "bad" choices are made, or you are just very unlucky. Or if you get drunk and run over your dog accidentally. Yeah there are definitely very, very bad choices one could make.




Many people praise God for such a scenario.

Because the incident caused them to wake up and stop drinking.

For some people, they say it was a blessing. A very good thing.


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: Choice and Decision [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23543593 - 08/15/16 10:49 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Prison is the manifest of the spiritual counterpart, in that, if the mind is shackled and restricted, so then will the body eventually be.

Another could imprison someone who is innocent however but it's still a projection of a shackled mind in having made (incorrect) judgement.


Edited by Duncan Rowhl (08/15/16 04:16 PM)


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Offlinenuentoter
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Re: Choice and Decision [Re: Duncan Rowhl] * 3
    #23544574 - 08/15/16 04:36 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

There is no inherent right or wrong. If you do things that land you in jail did you make wrong discussions? Wrong for who? If you are in jail there is a very good chance your choices lead to the detriment another in some way. If you make a decision that gets you killed, was it wrong did you simply learn the hardest lesson of your now finished life?

10 years wasted at a crap job, bad decision to stay or was it simply a lesson that took you 10 years to learn and your the better for?

Question everything. Remove shame and pride and question it again. Be selfless and question it again. Things are rarely they seem when it does come out in the wash.


--------------------

The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know.  - @entheolove

"I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for"  - Georgia O'Keefe

I think the word is vagina


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Choice and Decision [Re: PaulyAnna]
    #23545777 - 08/16/16 12:01 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

you work with what you've got.


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Choice and Decision [Re: PaulyAnna]
    #23546154 - 08/16/16 07:17 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

why do people choose beliefs which are absurd?

When I joined the Hare Krishna cult when 17, it was because I was looking for escape from the grim existence this reality is made for many people---the coercion to either get some sht activity/job or risk homelessness. Now many students suffer the prospect of becoming in deep debt for most if not all their lives UNLESS they get a job which pays enough for them to pay debt with interest.

What did the christians promise the native peoples they invaded and stole their land? The 'promised land'! after your D E A D!? hmmmmm :strokebeard:


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InvisiblePaulyAnna
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Re: Choice and Decision [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23546325 - 08/16/16 08:55 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:

you work with what you've got.



Can you expound a bit more please?


--------------------
Let it be, let it be, let it be, let it be
Whisper words of wisdom, let it be


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InvisiblePaulyAnna
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Re: Choice and Decision [Re: zzripz]
    #23546365 - 08/16/16 09:15 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
why do people choose beliefs which are absurd?

When I joined the Hare Krishna cult when 17, it was because I was looking for escape from the grim existence this reality is made for many people---the coercion to either get some sht activity/job or risk homelessness. Now many students suffer the prospect of becoming in deep debt for most if not all their lives UNLESS they get a job which pays enough for them to pay debt with interest.

What did the christians promise the native peoples they invaded and stole their land? The 'promised land'! after your D E A D!? hmmmmm :strokebeard:




I chose to believe something because I was fully persuaded it was true. Things appear more relative, presently. . . and I'm content with that.

Having beliefs, whether another sees them as absurd, isn't the issue. But when a person or group of people hold to them as absolute truth with a closed mind, without considering or disregarding other information, various problems arise.

Without mutual respect and appreciation for our fellow, regardless of beliefs, we will continue to be divided and chide one another to no end.

How did your experience with HC go? Do you still believe any of their dogma?


--------------------
Let it be, let it be, let it be, let it be
Whisper words of wisdom, let it be


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Offlinenuentoter
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Re: Choice and Decision [Re: PaulyAnna] * 1
    #23546414 - 08/16/16 09:40 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Absurdity is subjective. Given the personal history and environment an individual is raised in, almost anything can be plausible. How many are raised Christian, believing in God all their heart, just to grow up and away from that and later see the fallacy belief? How many don't because they are enveloped in that atmosphere still?


--------------------

The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know.  - @entheolove

"I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for"  - Georgia O'Keefe

I think the word is vagina


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Choice and Decision [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23546417 - 08/16/16 09:42 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

ie

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
you work with what you've got.




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Offlinenuentoter
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Re: Choice and Decision [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #23546428 - 08/16/16 09:47 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
ie

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
you work with what you've got.







:whathesaid:


--------------------

The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know.  - @entheolove

"I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for"  - Georgia O'Keefe

I think the word is vagina


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InvisiblePaulyAnna
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Re: Choice and Decision [Re: nuentoter]
    #23546502 - 08/16/16 10:19 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

nuentoter said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
ie

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
you work with what you've got.







:whathesaid:



Sorry, I'm slow and challenged this morning. . .

Can either of you break it down by way of present, personal example?


--------------------
Let it be, let it be, let it be, let it be
Whisper words of wisdom, let it be


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Choice and Decision [Re: PaulyAnna]
    #23546534 - 08/16/16 10:38 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

i was an idiot and quit school basically as i hit high school...well, i wouldn't stay in school, and i wouldn't do any homework. so i'd fail anyway.

now i have to learn shit from a new perspective. i mostly learn shit on my own because i've taught myself to. i've worked with what i've got.

school always sucked where i come from anyway.


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InvisiblePaulyAnna
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Re: Choice and Decision [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23546558 - 08/16/16 10:53 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
i was an idiot and quit school basically as i hit high school...well, i wouldn't stay in school, and i wouldn't do any homework. so i'd fail anyway.

now i have to learn shit from a new perspective. i mostly learn shit on my own because i've taught myself to. i've worked with what i've got.

school always sucked where i come from anyway.



The young n dumb example is a common example.

You evolved and emerged wiser later in life as "self taught" is what you're saying.?

Do you have a current example?

I am curious though, and this might apply, what did you learn from the recent ban?


--------------------
Let it be, let it be, let it be, let it be
Whisper words of wisdom, let it be


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Choice and Decision [Re: PaulyAnna]
    #23546648 - 08/16/16 11:42 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

that PSP is still junk because it's over censored and plus it's co-mingled with people whom are overly concerned with themselves.

and that the pub is worse then ever.


oh and a bunch of other stuff, like just...non-stop shit. i've reading alot about mythology and stuff...symbology...anthropology...just started this water book...water/body science. i'm reading a book about the Vietnam war called "the Bamboo Bed" by William Eastlake, it's excellent.
learning more about history, of religion and of war...geography is always on my mind...so i guess there's nothing "new" per se, there....um...naturalism has been on my mind, like war. kinda want to start learning how to grow my own food. there's also been math on my mind, like, see when i fucked off at school, that's different then when i was younger, and actually rocked it in school...but at someone point i stopped caring, and i really left off on the most important aspects of math to cement it into my brain; though, i do think it was a pretty lousy job to begin with...maybe i just forget, or maybe i was just too distracted with with myself, to realize that the concept was explained well enough. i dunno. i kinda wish more attention was paid to civics; and the classes and work on literature at the beginning sucked, and at the middle/end of my school experience, at where i went to school. so i never got into books as an inspiring subject to me, even though i loved writing stories. because there was no real instruction, you see. that's why i decided...i told the principal in grade 9, i'm not coming to school because this place is just trying to needle in the notion of being on time...and i said i don't have time for that shit.


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OfflineAlonzo
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Re: Choice and Decision [Re: zzripz]
    #23546701 - 08/16/16 12:03 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

i went through an early crisis, and ended up a factory worker. I clung to this hellish existence for nearly 10 years!! When it was over I had deep regret for being such a fkin idiot until i dug that i had always a choice. it was ME who was getting up and doing it, noone else, and the reason i stuck at it was cause i was going by the 'better the devil you know than the devil you don't'! trip. meaning i was not willing to trust the unknown and use my POWER of choice. THAT is what fks a lot of people over and why they will cling to the most desperate existences




"Better the devil you know than the devil you don't."

I feel you. Fear is a B*tch which is why I'm still putting up with mediocrity. I think it all has to do with personality. Some people are less risk-averse and have the will to risk valuables ranging from money, safety, and love to happiness.

I guarantee your personality (given to you part by nature, part by culture, part by personal experiences) affects and INFLUENCES your decisions every single day.

We can overcome personality's influence on our decisions/choices by special chemicals, booze, mantras, meditation, impulsiveness, or by not caring.


Edited by Alonzo (08/16/16 12:06 PM)


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Offlinezzripz
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Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
Re: Choice and Decision [Re: PaulyAnna]
    #23546773 - 08/16/16 12:40 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

How did your experience with HC go? Do you still believe any of their dogma?




No way do I! LOL. In fact now I learn that 'Krishna' is really referring to the psilocybin mushrooms, and that most myths are structured around some kind of psychedelic vegetation, especially psychedelic fungi (read The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross, by John Allegro).

Thus again, one can choose to ask questions and find this kind of deeply revealing stuff out or blindly remain in ignore-ance not asking questions.


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Registered: 10/08/12
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Re: Choice and Decision [Re: Alonzo]
    #23549570 - 08/17/16 10:54 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

When you come to know God, there is no doubt.

It's he who grants you the freedom and ability to 'doubt'. :thumbup:


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Invisiblenooneman
Male

Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,564
Loc: Utah
Re: Choice and Decision [Re: PaulyAnna] * 1
    #23549623 - 08/17/16 11:24 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

When I was a kid, a teenager (maybe 17-18 years old) I knew went with his friend one day to a very small locally owned liquor store. When they got there, his friend decided to rob the place, and this kid I used to know went along with it. They maybe got away with a couple hundred. They rode on their bikes to "escape."

They were caught just down the street still riding their bikes, and charged with armed robbery. This kid I knew spent years in jail. When he came out, he was never the same. He never really recovered from that experience in his life.

His friend clearly made an objectively bad decision, and the kid I knew made an objectively bad decision by going along with that friend when he robbed the place, or even just by hanging out with that friend at all.

There are objectively bad decisions in life.


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: Choice and Decision [Re: nooneman]
    #23549706 - 08/17/16 11:55 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Prison is always 'dark' since its the second tier icon of the fall. I.e the fall within the fall.

Societies in the material plane that we call 'life' are nested away, separated in their own compartments that we call houses.

Prison is simply the intense version of the same (life) with close knitted, impersonal cells.

The icon of the fall becomes more intense, more concentrated. It is the example of an intensifying act and condition of the dark.

The place of light is where mankind is freed of rigidness and segregation and flies, free and creatively without limitation or hindrance.

The Kindgom is the house without compartments and doors unlocked. :thumbup:


Edited by Duncan Rowhl (08/17/16 12:20 PM)


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
Loc: USA Flag
Last seen: 13 hours, 57 minutes
Re: Choice and Decision [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23551731 - 08/17/16 11:16 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:

that PSP is still junk because it's over censored and plus it's co-mingled with people whom are overly concerned with themselves.

and that the pub is worse then ever.





Praise God


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