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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Alkaline diet [Re: koods]
    #23524208 - 08/09/16 08:06 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Koods, there is a difference between an acidic food and and an acidifying food just as there is a difference between an alkaline food and an alkalizing food.

In fact, they are often the exact opposite of each other.

For example, red meat is in itself alkaline but has an acidifying effect in the body as a result of how it is broken down by metabolism.

Likewise lemons are extremely acidic in themselves but are very alkalizing in their post metabolic effects.

It's not As simple As eating acidic foods is acidifying and eating alkaline foods is alkalizing.

Refer again to the quote in my previous post.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Alkaline diet [Re: koods]
    #23524213 - 08/09/16 08:08 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Moonshoe is making shit up. Fruits and vegetables are very acidic. I ever heard anyone claim eating too many fruits and vegetables causes your bones too leech calcium.




"
The researchers note that fruits and vegetables are predominantly metabolized to alkaline bicarbonate"


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Alkaline diet [Re: Moonshoe] * 2
    #23524266 - 08/09/16 08:34 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

http://www.fda.gov/Food/FoodborneIllnessContaminants/CausesOfIllnessBadBugBook/ucm122561.htm

There are a few things worth mentioning from this list...

1. Almost all vegetables/fruit are on the acidic side of things, with most fruit being quite acidic.
2. Meat is also acidic, though not as acidic as most vegetables/fruit.
3. About the only alkaline foods are bakery products (crackers and cake especially) and eggs.

Now I am not really sure what point you are trying to make here, except maybe that vegetables are good for you, and meat is bad. While I won't pretend to ignore the multitude of studies that show bad effects from meat, I also won't pretend to think it has anything to do with the acidity/alkalinity of the food itself. The range is simply too overlapping for it to be the cause of the ill effects. I also know that is you were to ask any of the researchers involved, none of them would say that it boils down to something so simple.

In short, the whole "alkaline is better" crap is quackery.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Alkaline diet [Re: trendal]
    #23524362 - 08/09/16 09:21 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

My point is extremely simple and I've already laid it out clearly, point by point, with supporting scientific evidence cited , more than once, with repeated clarifications of things that were already pretty simple.

I literally just explained in my previous post, and you evidently didn't read or
Comprehend it.

It's not about whether the food is alkaline or acidic in and of itself it's about whether it has an alkalizing or acidifying effect in the body once metabolized.

When you have too much acidifying food (which may be alkaline in and of itself but metabolizes into acidifying byproducts ) then your body compensates by leaching calcium From your bones , which is not desirable.

I literally just explained this again in My last post so reread it because I already answered what you are saying.

This is not my own idea nor is it any kind of new age theory. It's legitimate Proven medical science and I have already quoted the supporting evidence.

I also already clearly and repeatedly explained that I was not saying that the negative health effects of meat are because it is acidic (except that metabolizing excessive protein does release acidifying metabolites which result in leaching calcium from bones )

Trendal, you really did an astonishingly poor job of reading comprehension in this thread. I can only assume you skipped reading most of the posts entirely in addition to misreading and misunderstanding whatever you did attempt to read.

If you go back and actually read this thread carefully you will see how redundant your post was and how thoroughly I already explained your erroneous points.


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Edited by Moonshoe (08/09/16 09:27 AM)


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Alkaline diet [Re: Moonshoe] * 1
    #23525812 - 08/09/16 07:22 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Really? Scientifically proven? Then you won't mind referencing some primary scientific sources? Actual peer-reviewed studies...newspaper articles don't count :smirk:

What, for example, does meat actually metabolize into? Give me some actual chemical names, not "an acidifying substance".


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Alkaline diet [Re: trendal] * 2
    #23525852 - 08/09/16 07:41 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

From the article you posted:

Quote:

At the same time, researchers at the Yale School of Medicine are studying the possible bone benefits of adding protein supplements to the diets of older Americans who habitually consume low levels of protein.
...
By contrast, Dr. Insogna said that although eating more protein raised the loss of calcium in urine, it also improved intestinal absorption of calcium and thus might not result in bone loss.




From the horses mouth


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Alkaline diet [Re: trendal]
    #23525858 - 08/09/16 07:44 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

All this is beside the point, which I read one poster allude to earlier in this thread: it is our lungs that run the primary balance of ph in the blood. Carbon dioxide is acidic, so if the lungs remove or add it to the blood, it will have an immediate effect on the bloods ph.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Alkaline diet [Re: trendal]
    #23525859 - 08/09/16 07:44 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)



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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Alkaline diet [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23525875 - 08/09/16 07:48 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Why do you keep insisting that I haven't read something? That's pretty much all I do: read :smirk:


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Alkaline diet [Re: trendal]
    #23525879 - 08/09/16 07:51 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

This suggests that increasing the alkali content of the diet may attenuate bone loss in healthy older adults.


(emphasis added)

This isn't "proven medical science"...it's just a suggestion.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Alkaline diet [Re: trendal] * 1
    #23525889 - 08/09/16 07:55 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Pretty sure the benefits of eating alkaline food are primarily associated with the fact that you're eating more vegetables. Your blood maintains a very specific range of acidity/alkalinity that won't really change no matter what you eat, and if it does your health is gonna be fucked up, cuz I don't think your body's organisms can really live outside that range of alkalinity.


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InvisibleEminence
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Re: Alkaline diet [Re: morrowasted]
    #23525906 - 08/09/16 07:59 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

That's what I'm thinkin too. So much conflicting info on diet it's hard to rely on much, I pretty much just don't eat carbs unless they're coming from vegetables and some nuts. That's it. Working well so far :shrug:


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Alkaline diet [Re: morrowasted]
    #23525979 - 08/09/16 08:27 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
Pretty sure the benefits of eating alkaline food are primarily associated with the fact that you're eating more vegetables. Your blood maintains a very specific range of acidity/alkalinity that won't really change no matter what you eat, and if it does your health is gonna be fucked up, cuz I don't think your body's organisms can really live outside that range of alkalinity.




Exactly what I was saying :thumbup:


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Alkaline diet [Re: trendal]
    #23525991 - 08/09/16 08:31 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

It is proven that in order to balance PH the body will use calcium carbonate from the bones.

The body has to maintain the internal PH within a very fine balance because it can't survive otherwise.

Calcium carbonate is a powerful alkalizing agent which is why antacids like Tums use it as the active ingredient.

So when you eat an acidifying diet, your body has to balance the PH. In order to do so it uses the calcium carbonate in the bones.

This was all explained in the article.

The reason I keep saying you haven't read things is because you keep demonstrating by what you post that you haven't carefully read this thread, requiring me to repeat myself.


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InvisibleEminence
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Re: Alkaline diet [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23526000 - 08/09/16 08:34 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Don't vegans have weaker bones though?


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Alkaline diet [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23526008 - 08/09/16 08:38 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
It is proven that in order to balance PH the body will use calcium carbonate from the bones.

The body has to maintain the internal PH within a very fine balance because it can't survive otherwise.

Calcium carbonate is a powerful alkalizing agent which is why antacids like Tums use it as the active ingredient.

So when you eat an acidifying diet, your body has to balance the PH. In order to do so it uses the calcium carbonate in the bones.

This was all explained in the article.

The reason I keep saying you haven't read things is because you keep demonstrating by what you post that you haven't carefully read this thread, requiring me to repeat myself.



this makes sense. though I do wonder about eminence's question in lieu of your explanation since the general understanding for bone weakness is lack of calcium. I suppose there simply isn't enough or as much calcium available in a vegan diet.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Alkaline diet [Re: Eminence]
    #23526012 - 08/09/16 08:39 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I am not sure. I haven't heard that and don't know if that is true or not.

As I understand it many western people get an excess of animal protein, resulting in calcium loss and osteoporosis/weaker bones.

But people who get no/very little animal protein might have weaker bones for other reasons. I don't know for sure.


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Offlineyestersaved
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Re: Alkaline diet [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23526018 - 08/09/16 08:40 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
Koods, there is a difference between an acidic food and and an acidifying food just as there is a difference between an alkaline food and an alkalizing food.

In fact, they are often the exact opposite of each other.

For example, red meat is in itself alkaline but has an acidifying effect in the body as a result of how it is broken down by metabolism.

Likewise lemons are extremely acidic in themselves but are very alkalizing in their post metabolic effects.

It's not As simple As eating acidic foods is acidifying and eating alkaline foods is alkalizing.

Refer again to the quote in my previous post.





this!

foods that are alkaline have an "alkaline ash" and foods that are considered have an "acidic ash"


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Alkaline diet [Re: yestersaved]
    #23526022 - 08/09/16 08:41 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

yestersaved said:
Quote:

Moonshoe said:
Koods, there is a difference between an acidic food and and an acidifying food just as there is a difference between an alkaline food and an alkalizing food.

In fact, they are often the exact opposite of each other.

For example, red meat is in itself alkaline but has an acidifying effect in the body as a result of how it is broken down by metabolism.

Likewise lemons are extremely acidic in themselves but are very alkalizing in their post metabolic effects.

It's not As simple As eating acidic foods is acidifying and eating alkaline foods is alkalizing.

Refer again to the quote in my previous post.





this!

foods that are alkaline have an "alkaline ash" and foods that are considered have an "acidic ash"




Correct.

:cheers:


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Alkaline diet [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23526042 - 08/09/16 08:45 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)



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