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 demiu5
humans, lol
Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 43,948
Loc: the popcorn stadium 
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 Re: Passive Suicide  [Re: LRG]
#23518457 - 08/07/16 10:59 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
LRG said:
Quote:
Spiritwithin said:
Quote:
LRG said:
Suicide is incredibly selfish.
I disagree. Saying that is just a way to make the poor candidate for suicide feel guilty. On top of everything else.
It's only selfish if others totally rely on you for their own existence and/or happiness. Which is always wrong anyways, except for children.
And if you have people around you who truly love you for what and who you are... you wouldn't think about suicide anyways.
Good they should feel guilty. Then they should face that guilt and apologize to everyone they love for thinking about it. Suicide is the ultimate form of weakness. When it rains it pours, and the real question is what will you do when that storm approaches. Free will is the reason we are here.
It's not always as simple as needing people who truly love you. You need to learn to love yourself. Obvious, but true. A harder task than finding someone to love you, imo.
nonsense. one's life is one's own life, and they have every right to choose to end their life. it is selfish of others to demand someone not end their life FOR THEIR OWN BENEFIT, often emotional.
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channel your inner Larry David
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 LRG
Supernaut
Registered: 04/04/16
Posts: 871
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
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Re: Passive Suicide [Re: demiu5]
#23518502 - 08/07/16 11:11 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
demiu5 said:
nonsense. one's life is one's own life, and they have every right to choose to end their life. it is selfish of others to demand someone not end their life FOR THEIR OWN BENEFIT, often emotional.
Quite right. As someone whose attempted suicide I've had the exact same thoughts. Actually, laid in a hospital bed on the edge of death. Not "oh I wrote a suicide note and left it out as a cry for help." No I actually attempted suicide.
Sometimes you just have that epiphany that changes you. Mine came to me in a dream.
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"I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.” - Gandalf The Grey.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
"I like to think of Jesus like with giant eagle's wings, and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an angel band and I'm in the front row and I'm HAMMERED DRUNK!" - Cal Naughton Jr. AKA The Magic Man. Abracadabra homes!
"Each tear is a drop of poison released." - Anonymous
"Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say if they knew you believe in God above? They should realize before they criticize that God is the only way to Love."
Edited by LRG (08/07/16 11:12 AM)
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Spiritwithin
Humidifier
Registered: 05/08/16
Posts: 164
Loc: Germany
Last seen: 2 years, 13 days
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Re: Passive Suicide [Re: LRG]
#23518505 - 08/07/16 11:12 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
LRG said:
Free will is the reason we are here.
Exactly. And the reason we might choose not to be here.
And, grow up.
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Trading Golden teacher prints for Pan. cyan. prints.
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LRG
Supernaut
Registered: 04/04/16
Posts: 871
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
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Quote:
Spiritwithin said:
Quote:
LRG said:
Free will is the reason we are here.
Exactly. And the reason we might choose not to be here.
And, grow up.
Don't tell me to grow up, and don't talk about something like you've experienced it. Your opinion would change if you sliced your wrists and saw nothingness.
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"I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.” - Gandalf The Grey.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
"I like to think of Jesus like with giant eagle's wings, and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an angel band and I'm in the front row and I'm HAMMERED DRUNK!" - Cal Naughton Jr. AKA The Magic Man. Abracadabra homes!
"Each tear is a drop of poison released." - Anonymous
"Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say if they knew you believe in God above? They should realize before they criticize that God is the only way to Love."
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Into The Woods
Quarantine King
Registered: 04/20/13
Posts: 10,864
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Re: Passive Suicide [Re: LRG]
#23518548 - 08/07/16 11:25 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Whoever makes the biggest mess wins the fancy coffin.
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Spiritwithin
Humidifier
Registered: 05/08/16
Posts: 164
Loc: Germany
Last seen: 2 years, 13 days
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Re: Passive Suicide [Re: LRG]
#23518553 - 08/07/16 11:28 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
LRG said:
Don't tell me to grow up, and don't talk about something like you've experienced it. Your opinion would change if you sliced your wrists and saw nothingness.
I've experienced more than I care to discuss here. I acknowledge your own experiences.
But you argue like a heavy ex-smoker, who suddenly condemns everybody else who still smokes. That's not ok. Everybody has to come to his own conclusions by his own experiences. Like you did.
It's not your place to instill guilt (i.e. make the problem worse) in others.
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Trading Golden teacher prints for Pan. cyan. prints.
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sprinkles
otd president
Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 21,541
Loc: washington state
Last seen: 2 months, 24 days
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Am I a coward to not want any medical treatment? To just let things take their "natural" course and be done with it?
nope, not at all. My personal belief is if you're not having fun anymore no one should make you (or feel you have to) stay here. That in my mind is more selfish to make a person live miserably just so you dont have to miss them.
Anyway whether mental or physical the bottom line is still pain.. The only difference is a natural death some organ or physical part of your body stops functioning properly. The other kind is mental (suicide), to me it is the same thing. A physical organ (brain) isn't functioning properly.
I understand wanting to kill yourself or let death take its course naturally. In your position I would likely do the same. But I encourage you to stay. Life and conscious awareness is a gift. It is better to experience pain in some form than it is to experience absolutley nothing ever again.
Also I encourage you to find and accept Jesus before you go if you have not already.
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demiu5
humans, lol
Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 43,948
Loc: the popcorn stadium
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Re: Passive Suicide [Re: LRG]
#23518580 - 08/07/16 11:34 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
LRG said:
Quote:
demiu5 said:
nonsense. one's life is one's own life, and they have every right to choose to end their life. it is selfish of others to demand someone not end their life FOR THEIR OWN BENEFIT, often emotional.
Quite right. As someone whose attempted suicide I've had the exact same thoughts. Actually, laid in a hospital bed on the edge of death. Not "oh I wrote a suicide note and left it out as a cry for help." No I actually attempted suicide.
Sometimes you just have that epiphany that changes you. Mine came to me in a dream.
did you forget it in another dream?
but seriously, your epiphany is relevant to you, and only you, unless someone else chooses to adopt it and make it relevant to them.
the key word in your statement is attempted. you didn't succeed. that's the catch about people who commit suicide. if you do it, you're no longer able to comment on it.
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channel your inner Larry David
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LRG
Supernaut
Registered: 04/04/16
Posts: 871
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
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Quote:
Spiritwithin said:
Quote:
LRG said:
Don't tell me to grow up, and don't talk about something like you've experienced it. Your opinion would change if you sliced your wrists and saw nothingness.
I've experienced more than I care to discuss here. I acknowledge your own experiences.
But you argue like a heavy ex-smoker, who suddenly condemns everybody else who still smokes. That's not ok. Everybody has to come to his own conclusions by his own experiences. Like you did.
It's not your place to instill guilt (i.e. make the problem worse) in others.
Perhaps, but I believe in helping people man. I see someone in pain and I cannot help but give them some form of advice I've learned from myself or others. I've had that guilt put on me on top of everything I was going through and it helped me. It was my guilty conscious not someone else's that helped me.
--------------------
"I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.” - Gandalf The Grey.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
"I like to think of Jesus like with giant eagle's wings, and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an angel band and I'm in the front row and I'm HAMMERED DRUNK!" - Cal Naughton Jr. AKA The Magic Man. Abracadabra homes!
"Each tear is a drop of poison released." - Anonymous
"Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say if they knew you believe in God above? They should realize before they criticize that God is the only way to Love."
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sprinkles
otd president
Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 21,541
Loc: washington state
Last seen: 2 months, 24 days
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Re: Passive Suicide [Re: LRG] 1
#23518633 - 08/07/16 11:45 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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if you truly want to help other people you do it with support and encouragement, rather than beating and tearing them down. Guilt and shame are damaging and unconstructive, not only that but it pushes them to continue the self destructive patters.
the gift of communication and language comes with an obligation to use it wisely and truthfully, not just to communicate ideas and thoughts but to serve and better the lives of others as well as ourselves.
what can take 10 seconds to say can still affect a person after 10 years. So choose words carefully.
lol im not directing that at you trying to tear you down or anything, its to everybody. I dont like people who have that "holier than thou" attitude. It makes me laugh inside kinda.
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LRG
Supernaut
Registered: 04/04/16
Posts: 871
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
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Quote:
sprinkles said:
if you truly want to help other people you do it with support and encouragement, rather than beating and tearing them down. Guilt and shame are damaging and unconstructive, not only that but it pushes them to continue the self destructive patters.
the gift of communication and language comes with an obligation to use it wisely and truthfully, not just to communicate ideas and thoughts but to serve and better the lives of others as well as ourselves.
what can take 10 seconds to say can still affect a person after 10 years. So choose words carefully.
lol im not directing that at you trying to tear you down or anything, its to everybody. I dont like people who have that "holier than thou" attitude. It makes me laugh inside kinda.
It's all good dude I have the same problem. I literally despise holier than thou people. On this subject I can concede I am easily a part of that crowd, but I don't care.
However, I can't encourage suicide or ignoring the guilt. I gave encouraging and supportive remarks. Guilt is your emotion to acknowledge or ignore. Fall victim to or rise above. I put it at the forefront of a suicidal dilemma because it's your guilt that's causing you these thoughts. The only way to beat it is to face it. Ignoring it doesn't solve the problem. Killing yourself doesn't solve it either. It only causes grief, guilt, and despair to your loved ones.
Not many people like tough love.
Edited by LRG (08/07/16 12:32 PM)
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student
Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system 
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Re: Passive Suicide [Re: LRG] 1
#23518816 - 08/07/16 12:44 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think you're being silly OC. IMO, you're taking the ultimate opportunity to grow and instead turning it to want to die.
Don't get me wrong, I get it, we both know that place. But IMO, this is a calling for you.
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Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Perhaps. I don't feel as if I have grown in the slightest. I haven't slept well in a year and am frequently overcome with soul-searing grief and extreme crying jags.
If there is a door out, I do not have the key (that I am aware of) else I would use it.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 40,472
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the clown in you is getting maudlin.
maybe bipolar
get help
get laid
get healthy and snarky again
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 _  🧠 _ 
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Mental Health Services at the VA last year:
Me: I can only do this if I have regular visits with the same counselor.
Primary Care Doctor: That sounds reasonable.
The reality: 5 visits in 6 months with 5 different counselors.
Summation: useless and a waste of time
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 40,472
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win more dough at cards and buy a better there-there-a-pist
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_ 🧠 _
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cez
Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,856
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Re: Passive Suicide [Re: LRG]
#23519143 - 08/07/16 02:22 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
LRG said:
Quote:
demiu5 said:
nonsense. one's life is one's own life, and they have every right to choose to end their life. it is selfish of others to demand someone not end their life FOR THEIR OWN BENEFIT, often emotional.
Quite right. As someone whose attempted suicide I've had the exact same thoughts. Actually, laid in a hospital bed on the edge of death. Not "oh I wrote a suicide note and left it out as a cry for help." No I actually attempted suicide.
Are you sure your suicide attempt wasn't a cry for help?
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Spiritwithin
Humidifier
Registered: 05/08/16
Posts: 164
Loc: Germany
Last seen: 2 years, 13 days
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Mental Health Services at the VA last year:
Me: I can only do this if I have regular visits with the same counselor.
Primary Care Doctor: That sounds reasonable.
The reality: 5 visits in 6 months with 5 different counselors.
Summation: useless and a waste of time
OC, I have similar experiences with the mental branch of the health care system, although not that dramatic.
But, in essence, it's the same. You'll come to the realization that, really, nobody can help you. The only help that actually helps you, is the one that you can give to yourself. The rest is placebo shit. Except, in many cases antidepressants do actually help. At least to enable you to get up and make the first steps towards a non-dead future. Consider it.
So, you must make a decision. Will you help yourself and start fighting? And maybe loose the fight anyways? Or will you not? It's really up to you. And only you.
In your case, I would say to you: For committing suicide it's not advisable to choose a slow and painful death by refusing treatments. You know that. If you are absolutely and truly convinced that it's done and over for you, then you should do it quick and painless.
But you consider passively withering away... Thats nothing more than being unsure. Which is ok. It means that there is (and you have) still hope. Maybe you need to actually do this in order to, at some point in time when you are ready, still being there to reverse your present opinion.
Many people, who are not ill and don't even think about suicide, are in exactly the same spot as you are. They may not realize it, but they are slowly killing themselves by their life habits (smoking, drinking, working, you name it).
Maybe it's best for you to leave this place. Maybe it isn't. Do you really think, that anybody else except you knows this better than you?
My personal opinion is that are too many people living their lives in absolute misery just waiting for it to be over. They should be free to go without being made guilty. Especially the terminally sick ones.
But, on the other hand, miracles do happen. There's also a ton of people who are changed forever after they masterd serious crisis's, lost all kinds of appendices, nearly died and so forth... And they tend to be the more happy ones in general.
So, again... it's your decision. Will you just give up, lay down and die? Or will you get up and fight this? You don't give up anything by doing so, you know. You can always kill yourself anyday. But with cancer, it maybe to late one day for treatments. What then? Will you regret having refused treatment? Think about it.
my 2 ct's or more like 5 ct's
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Trading Golden teacher prints for Pan. cyan. prints.
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head
Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,981
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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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demiu5
humans, lol
Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 43,948
Loc: the popcorn stadium
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said:
"My advice to you..."
strong drink or strong pods
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channel your inner Larry David
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