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Carlosallende
Stranger

Registered: 05/29/16
Posts: 42
Last seen: 4 months, 25 days
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To agar or not to agar, sewage backup, & mice poop
#23517086 - 08/06/16 09:04 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Hello everyone!
I've spent the last two-three months reading Shroomery posts trying to plot how to go about cultivating mushrooms for my first time.
For a blueprint, I've kind of settled on Frank's 12 step mono tek.
However – I have a nasty unfinished basement that has experienced backed up sewage in the past and also may have potential mold issues (although I plan to do the grow on the main floor, or upstairs, but obviously things spread through air and ducts), also; my house gets mice pretty annually late autumn (I'm sure their urine and feces remains are in the walls), and in general: I'm a messy and insecure guy.
So to be blunt: I'm really paranoid about contams fucking any potential grow up.
1. In general, how much do I have to worry about these above potential sources of contamination? and any advice in general in regards to growing successfully given the above?
Concern over things here has driven me to want to do everything I can to prevent against contams, and thus has me wondering if I should do agar first?
I've read repeatedly Shroomery vets talking about how they wish they had started agar earlier, or from the get-go.
2. Curious, how else besides for testing if a ms syringe is contaminated via agar, can agar help me prevent against contams? or is that the only way agar can help me in a fight against contams?
3. What are the odds roughly would you say of getting a contaminated syringe from a sponsor? (I just received a mail-order ms syringe today.)
In part of what holds me in indecision on agar is thinking how in mid-late October I'll likely be getting mice intruding into the house. Is that a concern to be taken into account? The extra 3 week agar step would push things out to where I'm growing my mushrooms in a house with mice.
Also in late October, with the arrival of cold, I'll likely start using my furnace so more air being transferred from the basement upstairs to the main floor and just being spread all around.
4. Is this (air being more proactively spread from my nasty basement throughout the house, come furnace usage time) something to take into account here? as in, should I just start my grow now without agar, to get things wrapped up before then?
The other parts holding me in indecision about employing the pretty much only lauded step of agar, is just that I like with Frank's 12 step (that inoculates grain directly with a mss) - I have something I can follow to a t as-is without any kind of alteration from me.
I rather throw my trust just into a tek than trust myself to frankenstein two teks together. I just want to follow a tried and true tek lock and step without any kind of deviation from me to potentially screw things up.
Also, in general: I don't really wish to make growing a continual ongoing hobby unto itself. I can see how it can be a runaway time-sink, and I have competing hobbies and have such little time as it is. I was attracted to the idea of a mono in part just because I like the idea of growing enough that I won't have to grow again for 2-3 years. So, because of that predisposition some of the benefits of going to the length of agar get cancelled out.
Sorry for the length of the post!
I'd deeply appreciate your responses!
I love you Shroomery members! I feel so much gratitude for this vibrant and active tapestry of know-how that is Shroomery.
Best Regards
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PsilocyBen17
Pin Pornographer


Registered: 10/20/13
Posts: 3,751
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: To agar or not to agar, sewage backup, & mice poop [Re: Carlosallende]
#23517219 - 08/06/16 10:07 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Welcome to the Shroomery dude!
Thats the whole point of a Still Air Box my man. SAB for short. Sorry for the backed up sewage....that sounds, well....im sure you know what im about to say.
Its been a long day for me so im off to bed. I promise ill point you to some good resources over my morning coffee....
In the meantime look up the PF Tek and SAB/Flowhood to get a grasp on the kinda stuff we do around here
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Carlosallende
Stranger

Registered: 05/29/16
Posts: 42
Last seen: 4 months, 25 days
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Re: To agar or not to agar, sewage backup, & mice poop [Re: PsilocyBen17]
#23517329 - 08/06/16 10:49 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Thank you so much for your welcome! and the reply.
I am aware of what a SAB is. I've read teks, and even input terms into the search engine just on the matter of SABs alone.
I value what you're adding though to the thread (beyond the gracious welcome), because perhaps you're saying in effect, "SABs protect you against all that shit" (pun not intended, ..or was it? )
Perhaps more disconcertingly, I suspect the presence of mold in my basement, as I alluded in my OP.
You think a SAB and proper sterile inoculation technique is enough to protect me against even something like mold spores in the surrounding environment?
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
Loc: 12" down Europe's butthole
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Re: To agar or not to agar, sewage backup, & mice poop [Re: Carlosallende]
#23517351 - 08/06/16 10:57 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Carlosallende said:
1. In general, how much do I have to worry about these above potential sources of contamination? and any advice in general in regards to growing successfully given the above?
2. Curious, how else besides for testing if a ms syringe is contaminated via agar, can agar help me prevent against contams? or is that the only way agar can help me in a fight against contams?
3. What are the odds roughly would you say of getting a contaminated syringe from a sponsor? (I just received a mail-order ms syringe today.)
4. Is this (air being more proactively spread from my nasty basement throughout the house, come furnace usage time) something to take into account here? as in, should I just start my grow now without agar, to get things wrapped up before then?

Luckily, I only read your questions.
1. If your sterile tek is good and your spawn is clean, you can have the rats turn your tubs into their bedroom and it will still grow mushrooms. OK, that's a little bit exaggerated seeing that rats would eat everything but you get my point.
2. Agar, agar, agar. That's all I have to say.
3. The odds of having a totally clean syringe (sterile) are about 0/100. Syringes always have at least a minimal amount of bacteria. A little bit of bacteria is generally not the end of the world but without agar, bacteria can get out of hand more easily.
4. Depends on if your spawn is clean. Bacterial spawn in a dirty environment will grow mold quickly. Clean spawn in a filthy environment will still perform well. Only agar can get you the cleanest spawn possible.
By the way, going from spores>agar>grain is not much slower than spores>grain. I reckon it will only delay your grow by a couple of weeks on average, could be less, could be more depending on how long the spores take to germinate and how good your sterile tek is.
Remember, if in an effort to get things done faster you go ahead and use spores directly on grains and that grow ends up failing, it will end up taking more time than it would have had if you used agar.
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Cactiphile
cactiphile



Registered: 04/21/13
Posts: 1,734
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Re: To agar or not to agar, sewage backup, & mice poop [Re: Carlosallende]
#23517406 - 08/06/16 11:21 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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As long as all sterile steps are carried out in a SAB you shouldnt have to worry too much about contams, i would however give the space you intend to work in and store your jars a good goimg over. Tidy up, vac/mop depending if its carpeted or not, spot spray any noticeable mold spots with a weak bleach solution, just make the room as clean as possible. And a good ousting before you commence any work.
Agar is good because it allows you to nocc up plates and guarantee they are free from contaminants before usig them to nocc up jars. Because regardless of good grows its almost impossible to get a clean syringe. Even a vendor syringe will have all types of crud in it when viewed under a microscope.
If you are planning to use grain, i would suggest agar, Syringes are only really good for brf cakes. But ive never done franks tek so its your call on that one.
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Carlosallende
Stranger

Registered: 05/29/16
Posts: 42
Last seen: 4 months, 25 days
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Re: To agar or not to agar, sewage backup, & mice poop [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23517496 - 08/07/16 12:14 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
1. If your sterile tek is good and your spawn is clean, you can have the rats turn your tubs into their bedroom and it will still grow mushrooms. OK, that's a little bit exaggerated seeing that rats would eat everything but you get my point.
2. Agar, agar, agar. That's all I have to say.
3. The odds of having a totally clean syringe (sterile) are about 0/100. Syringes always have at least a minimal amount of bacteria. A little bit of bacteria is generally not the end of the world but without agar, bacteria can get out of hand more easily.
4. Depends on if your spawn is clean. Bacterial spawn in a dirty environment will grow mold quickly. Clean spawn in a filthy environment will still perform well. Only agar can get you the cleanest spawn possible.
By the way, going from spores>agar>grain is not much slower than spores>grain. I reckon it will only delay your grow by a couple of weeks on average, could be less, could be more depending on how long the spores take to germinate and how good your sterile tek is.
Great, relevant information and very useful feedback. Thank you for taking the time to post, Supalemonhaze.
Also, thank you australian_dream for your contribution.
Edited by Carlosallende (08/07/16 12:17 AM)
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Mushierage
SWIM Sinker



Registered: 06/29/16
Posts: 1,094
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Re: To agar or not to agar, sewage backup, & mice poop [Re: Carlosallende]
#23517514 - 08/07/16 12:28 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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#2: Agar doesn't help you "fight" contams. It helps you identify them, which is what you want. It helps you see contamination vectors with your inoculant. It helps you save a lot of time, and prevent using dirty spores or clones, because obviously using contaminated spores or cultures are a serious waste of your time.
It can also help you get rid of a contaminant from your inoculant by transferring. You can transfer a healthy sector of contaminated agar onto another plate, and continue this process until you have a clean culture to use for inoculation. This is how every veteran inoculates, from grain spawn to liquid cultures. Any newbie that is serious about cultivating will learn everything they can about agar and how it can increase the success of your grows 100 fold.
-------------------- Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup. OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.
  
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2shoes
The anti-agar



Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 3,124
Loc: Not in a SAB
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Re: To agar or not to agar, sewage backup, & mice poop [Re: Carlosallende]
#23517938 - 08/07/16 06:30 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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If your spores are from a trusted source and you don't feel like doing SAB work you can skip Agar and go straight spore to grain. Its quicker than spore > Agar > grain. I have relatively low contamination rate compared to how "wreckless" I am. If it's dirty or looks like it might be just outdoor bed it
Learning to identify dirty spawn and fruiting at spawning go a long way. I use ships and cfd/sfd's on plastic lids and have had nothing but acceptable results which is why I haven't changed my ways.
Most will disagree but spores syringes are cheap and easy compared Agar, additives, containers/petris, PCing, tons of sab work.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: To agar or not to agar, sewage backup, & mice poop [Re: 2shoes]
#23517968 - 08/07/16 06:51 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Considering your environment use a still air box and yes do agar.
Everything you have seen Frank post he used a SAB and lived in a carpeted house with cats
Everything I've posted was done in a SAB. Including all my agar and the agar TEK in my signature
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Carlosallende
Stranger

Registered: 05/29/16
Posts: 42
Last seen: 4 months, 25 days
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Re: To agar or not to agar, sewage backup, & mice poop [Re: bodhisatta]
#23519169 - 08/07/16 02:29 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Thank you Mushierage, 2shoes, and Trusted Cultivator - I appreciate your time.
I like your tongue in cheek choice in username Trusted Cultivator. ha
Funny, the absolute extremes in self-titles of "Spore syringe hater" and "The anti-agar" contributed here. I appreciate the info that Mushierage supplies that it can be done that way (noses can get easily turned upward to the reality that too many steps can be prohibitive to amount of motivation one has to even make an attempt of any kind at all, period) however, it seems the obvious consensus throughout Shroomery is SAB and agar gives one your absolute highest chance of success.
I've been convinced here to do agar.
I'm curious then, any recommendation (anyone) on a fool-proof tek for agar wedge to grain inoculation?
There are plenty of how to make agar teks, but not much on just the minutia of cutting an agar wedge and inoculating grain.
I mean the concept seems pretty damn simple; is it as simple as it seems?
I just want to iron out any little potential sources of error in doing the work that I can make through just following someone else's work lock and step.
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
Loc: 12" down Europe's butthole
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Re: To agar or not to agar, sewage backup, & mice poop [Re: Carlosallende]
#23519183 - 08/07/16 02:39 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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A good way to start would be Pasty plates for agar and the tiger drop for inoculation. There is also an updated version of the tiger drop, called tic tac toe but you should start simple and work from there.
Agar is as simple as it seems but it requires attention to detail. Once you get the hang of it, it will be child's work.
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Omie



Registered: 10/04/15
Posts: 15
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Re: To agar or not to agar, sewage backup, & mice poop [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23519732 - 08/07/16 06:09 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Carlosallende
Stranger

Registered: 05/29/16
Posts: 42
Last seen: 4 months, 25 days
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Re: To agar or not to agar, sewage backup, & mice poop [Re: Omie]
#23522078 - 08/08/16 01:58 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Thank you Supalemonhaze.
Yeah, Pasty's tek is what I actually already had in mind for the agar making portion of things. If it wasn't for how easy Pasty made things seem, I don't think I'd even contemplate trying to do agar.
Thank you much for the link on the inoculation side of things with the tiger drop.
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circles

Registered: 06/15/16
Posts: 344
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Re: To agar or not to agar, sewage backup, & mice poop *DELETED* [Re: Carlosallende]
#23522181 - 08/08/16 02:53 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Post deleted by circles
Reason for deletion: .
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Carlosallende
Stranger

Registered: 05/29/16
Posts: 42
Last seen: 4 months, 25 days
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Re: To agar or not to agar, sewage backup, & mice poop [Re: circles]
#23528498 - 08/10/16 03:06 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Wow thanks, Circles!
That's the kind of vote of confidence I needed from someone who has been there.
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circles

Registered: 06/15/16
Posts: 344
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Re: To agar or not to agar, sewage backup, & mice poop *DELETED* [Re: Carlosallende]
#23529222 - 08/10/16 06:54 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Post deleted by circles
Reason for deletion: .
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Carlosallende
Stranger

Registered: 05/29/16
Posts: 42
Last seen: 4 months, 25 days
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Re: To agar or not to agar, sewage backup, & mice poop [Re: circles]
#23533418 - 08/12/16 12:32 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Thank you sincerely for the support.
I will try to, just because one of the things I find myself doing is coming across random old Shroomery posters inquiring about something they are concerned about or a problem, and then I go click on their name hoping to find later posts showing how they succeeded.
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