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partyboy420247
Tiny Shroom

Registered: 08/05/16
Posts: 102
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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First time grow in spawn bags
#23514493 - 08/05/16 10:00 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Hello. I just got my deluxe spawn bag incubation kit and 5-grain spawn bags, and my spore syringes in the mail today. I pulled the needles out of the sterile wrappers and immediately injected the self healing ports, and then I put the bags in the dark. I haven't done much more than that since they didn't send me any kind of directions. I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with this grow kit, or that could possibly help me figure out what I'm doing, because they won't even respond to my e-mail for the instructions that they're supposed to include in the box. Any help would be greatly appreciated
Edited by partyboy420247 (08/06/16 12:44 PM)
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dankington
The Stranger




Registered: 03/14/15
Posts: 4,577
Loc: 8te
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In the dark? without flaming the needle or anything? 
And Growkits suck
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partyboy420247
Tiny Shroom

Registered: 08/05/16
Posts: 102
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: First time grow in spawn bags [Re: dankington]
#23514543 - 08/05/16 10:22 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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What should I do, then? I watched a YouTube video for a similar bag, and the guy in the video said that you don't have to flame the needle if it's already sterile. Please help me, I guess I don't know how to do this very well
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dankington
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Registered: 03/14/15
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Loc: 8te
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spores shouldn't even be taken straight to grain! 
It's okay. See what you get, and don't cry if it's not great. Because it won't be. There's tons of great info on here, if you use the search post function, and use the filters. Don't search past a couple of years or so, and you can check the TC checkbox. Learn everything you can in there.
SpitballJedi's the Basics is a great place to start.
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partyboy420247
Tiny Shroom

Registered: 08/05/16
Posts: 102
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: First time grow in spawn bags [Re: dankington]
#23514574 - 08/05/16 10:31 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I don't understand. This is exactly what the company told me to do. Did I make a mistake by injecting the spores into the spawn bags?
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dankington
The Stranger




Registered: 03/14/15
Posts: 4,577
Loc: 8te
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That's right. It may be okay, but that's just not typically how we do things around here.
Spore syringes should really be taken to agar or BRF cakes (PF tek). This is because they are never sterile and will invite contaminants in to the spawn.
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partyboy420247
Tiny Shroom

Registered: 08/05/16
Posts: 102
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: First time grow in spawn bags [Re: dankington]
#23514621 - 08/05/16 10:47 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Thank you. I'll watch for contamination. So, how do I incubate the bags now? This kit has equipment to keep water warm for incubating, like an aquarium heater, but I have no idea how to set it up, since they didn't give me any instructions. Also, you mentioned that I had them in the dark. Is that a bad thing?
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partyboy420247
Tiny Shroom

Registered: 08/05/16
Posts: 102
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Someone, please help me. I don't want to ruin my investment by giving improper storage to the spawn bags
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dankington
The Stranger




Registered: 03/14/15
Posts: 4,577
Loc: 8te
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don't incubate. keep it room temperature
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up


Registered: 01/24/13
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Loc: Babylon
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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Re: First time grow in spawn bags [Re: dankington]
#23515288 - 08/06/16 07:49 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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spores to grain bags are bound to get bacterial. the company assholes should know better.
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partyboy420247
Tiny Shroom

Registered: 08/05/16
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Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: First time grow in spawn bags [Re: spacechildo]
#23515293 - 08/06/16 07:53 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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So, what you're telling me is that I wasted all my time and money doing this in the first place?
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up


Registered: 01/24/13
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most likely, but you may still get some fruits from it. bags should be inoculated with LC/LI or g2g transfer with live myc.
just forget about the bag for a few weeks while reading up on howto DIY on the shroomery, then checkit and see if there's still hope.
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Mushierage
SWIM Sinker



Registered: 06/29/16
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No, what he's telling you is that the people that made your mushroom video don't know what they are talking about. We do. So listen to us, not them.
Injecting spores directly to spawn is risky, but it's not something you can't do. If you do it, you will likely end up with bacterial spawn. This might mean you'll have a tougher time colonizing, it could stall or contaminate easier with mold. Bacterial infected spawn that ended up colonizing either can fruit, but most times not very well. I've done bacterial rye to cases hpoo and coir or verm, it is does affect yield and contaminate easier.
What he's saying above is putting spores to agar first is a much better way to avoid bacterial contaminations or mold. It is a way to see if your spores are clean, and a way to know that you are removing a contaminate vector from the inoculation stage, at least in regard to spores and agar.
You should be colonizing at 70-75 F. I don't care what video said what. Incubating is not necessary. We've learned a lot about mushroom since the 80s and 90s. Colonize on a shelf somewhere at room temp.
-------------------- Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup. OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.
  
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spacechildo
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Registered: 01/24/13
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Re: First time grow in spawn bags [Re: Mushierage]
#23515443 - 08/06/16 09:27 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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no, what I'm saying is that spores to bag is a bad idea because you gotta wait for germination and then colonization of a whole bag. and you cant order a bag and then start spores on agar, grains has a window of 2 weeks or so to get colonized. so bags ordered online has already spent a lot of time on a shelf waiting for you to buy it, then through shipping and god knows how much temp difference.
please dont put words in my mouth in the future eh?
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Psychedel.EXE
AKA Old Uncle Nutty



Registered: 07/04/16
Posts: 211
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Re: First time grow in spawn bags [Re: spacechildo]
#23515511 - 08/06/16 09:49 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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OP, around here we don't like to name drop sponsors. You should totally edit your first post and take the names of the sponsors out.
Hopefully you still have more in your spore syringe. If you do, I would try to innoc some pastyplates and be working toward a clean culture while you are waiting for your bag(s?) to colonize.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Just to clarify.
Spores to grain can work but it's risky. Because the spores may take a long time to germ, because they often have contams hitching a ride. These things lessen the odds greatly. You may see fruits. But don't be surprised if it goes bad.
There are ways to make spores to grain less risky, like around 75% success. But those don't involve buying premade shit.
Premade stuff blows. Getting 100% sterilization with the equipment we have at our level is not possible. What we actually mean is that any surviving bacteria is usually damaged enough and in small enough numbers, that we can get ahead of it. This is referred to our window of colonization. If you can get your spawn expansion and spawn run done within this time frame, you won't have anything to worry about.
But a premade bag sits on a shelf for a week. Then ships for 3 days. Then you wait for 4-14 days for the spores to germinate. Most of your window is now gone. You might squeeze in under the wire. But it's gonna be close. There are also other variables like the guy being paid 10 bux an hour to sterilize the grain wants to clock out 10 min early so he shorts the run on the spawn. Now your window is even shorter.
See where this all goes? A good home cultivator can see 95% success easily. But now with a premade bag and spores your odds are more like 50-50.
Course loads of noobs do it once and claim it works every time. They get defensive. Then they start seeing loads of contams and get frustrated, leave the hobby, and we never see them again.
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partyboy420247
Tiny Shroom

Registered: 08/05/16
Posts: 102
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Okay, that helps. Thank you for the information. I'm literally flying blind here, with no response from the company that I ordered the supplies from. I just wanted a beginner's setup for now until I have more time and experience to run a different setup. I also live in a small apartment, so my space is limited. So, just to make sure that I'm getting this right, my best bet for the time being would be to keep the temperature at 70-75 and keep the bags in the dark?
And I edited my original post. Sorry about that.
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up


Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 19,243
Loc: Babylon
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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no point keeping it in the dark, just leave it alone at those temps if you can for a week or 2.
easiest noob way to get mushrooms is pf-tek, they can handle a fair bit of bacteria since they arent broken up afterwards.
Pasty just explained why bags and pre-made stuff is bad way better than I did, trust yourself more than some sloppy joe doing his 9-5 job!
www.mushroomvideos.com video 1-4 explains pf-tek, no pressure cooker needed, maybe 50$ investment total..
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partyboy420247
Tiny Shroom

Registered: 08/05/16
Posts: 102
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: First time grow in spawn bags [Re: spacechildo]
#23516009 - 08/06/16 01:08 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Thanks a lot. I didn't want to rely on these bags, and I'm willing to learn and be extremely careful with sanitation, but it's hard to find anything for a beginner. All I've seen is extremely complicated setups, or the one that I bought. I'll check out that link, too. So, if my bags do end up colonizing, what do I do to get them to fruit? The company that I'm dealing with says to put the inoculated bag's contents in a plastic bin with a HEPA breathing tube coming out of it, and put the contents of the casing bag over the top of it. Is it really that simple?
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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God that's actually too complicated. Passive systems are best.
If you want to expand to bulk your best bet and simplist route is a monotub. In essence it's a tub with 6 holes. Mix your colonized grain with bucket prepped coir and verm in the tub. We then stuff the holes with poly and leave it alone. Come back to harvest.
Looks like this
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up


Registered: 01/24/13
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Re: First time grow in spawn bags [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23516045 - 08/06/16 01:24 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Spawn to bulk would be best option yeah, but I have a feeling its gonna be a bacterial mess somewhere so you may just wanna throw some coir on top and fruit from the bag.
pf-tek is not complicated at all, and you dont have to sanitize everything just work with still air in your still air box.
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partyboy420247
Tiny Shroom

Registered: 08/05/16
Posts: 102
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: First time grow in spawn bags [Re: spacechildo]
#23516090 - 08/06/16 01:45 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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The company sent me a plastic tub that I'm apparently supposed to fruit in. It only has one hole in it, for the HEPA breathing tube. Is that a passive system, or do I need to drill more holes in it? I'm sorry, I'm not good with the mycologist terms yet. I'm a very skilled cannabis grower, but mushrooms are a little bit different
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Mushierage
SWIM Sinker



Registered: 06/29/16
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Growing cannabis is nothing like growing mushrooms. If you want to be successful don't rely on kits and outdated mushroom tek or videos. READ a LOT. Use the search function here on the forums and look for tek that isn't outdated from trusted cultivators. Do this, and listen to veteran experiences, and you'll go far.
-------------------- Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup. OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.
  
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: First time grow in spawn bags [Re: Mushierage]
#23516122 - 08/06/16 02:00 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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You can take everything that company told you to do and flush it. Everything. I thought that was clear by now. The only thing that can be used is the tub, prvoiding you drill more holes in it. Those companies set you up to fail, keeps you ordering more kits.
Seriously start reading. Forget that kit. Spending a bunch of time mooding over it only to find its contamed as fucK and won't even give you a flush is a waste of time. Do what space said and top case it with coir when it finishes to get a few fruits. Meanwhile get busy reading.
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partyboy420247
Tiny Shroom

Registered: 08/05/16
Posts: 102
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: First time grow in spawn bags [Re: Mushierage]
#23516132 - 08/06/16 02:05 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Like I said, I'm horrible with the terminology involved with mushrooms. There's no guide to all these terms that I can find anywhere. What does "tek" mean? I'm sure that this is a dumb question, but there was no glossary included in my kit's non-existant instructions. Is there a "Mushroom Growing for Dummies" book that I should be reading to find all this stuff out? I have the "The Mushroom Cultivator" and "Growing Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms" books, but I'm pretty sure that none of these terms were mentioned. I'm happy to read, I want to get as good as I can at this, but I can't find a good resource for beginners
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dankington
The Stranger




Registered: 03/14/15
Posts: 4,577
Loc: 8te
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I linked "the basics" on the first page. I'd recommend you start there.
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partyboy420247
Tiny Shroom

Registered: 08/05/16
Posts: 102
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: First time grow in spawn bags [Re: dankington]
#23516240 - 08/06/16 03:07 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm reading it right now. It's a good resource. Much appreciated. So, here's what I plan to do with the (possible) waste of time grow kit bags that only have me crossing my fingers for a shroom to pop out...
1. Keep bags at room temperature, around 70-75F for 2 weeks and disturb as little as possible
2. Check for contamination after 2 weeks. If a bag shows signs of contamination, I don't know whether to dispose of it or see if it makes a mushroom or two anyway, but I'll assume that it belongs in the trash if nobody tells me otherwise.
3. After the third week, if the bag is well colonized, I'll get one of those shotgun bins going, and get some of that casing material to fruit the mushrooms. I'm not sure exactly how I'm supposed to do that yet, but I'm sure that it's mentioned in the basics. I have three weeks to figure that part out, but I would rather know now than later so I can have time to re-do it if I screw up 
If anyone has any better ideas than what I'm going to do, please let me know. I can't wait to get this trial run over with and start doing this right, with the kind instruction of the people who know what the hell they're doing
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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I advise you to not wait until your done with this grow to start the next. First nothing makes the waiting easier than staying busy. Second is that it's gonna be more likely to be what brings you success.
Your outline for the bag is pretty good tho. It's the best chance for it.
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up


Registered: 01/24/13
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1 yes 2 post pics 3 WTF happened to the DIY? Start some pf-cakes at least.
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partyboy420247
Tiny Shroom

Registered: 08/05/16
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Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: First time grow in spawn bags [Re: spacechildo]
#23516301 - 08/06/16 03:31 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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After I put the casing material over the colonized grain, I need pf-cakes to have the best chance of getting mushrooms to fruit?
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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PF cakes are good for simplicity. You don't need a PC and they are pretty forgiving if you just wanna stick with spore syringes.
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partyboy420247
Tiny Shroom

Registered: 08/05/16
Posts: 102
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: First time grow in spawn bags [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23516395 - 08/06/16 04:23 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I haven't made it that far in the basics guide yet, but I'm reading it in between checking for forum replies on here. I just want to get enough mushrooms to get me by until I can get a real DIY setup going. I have one 10cc spore syringe left, and I want to use it after I know if I screwed the current experiment up. I'm definitely not going to quit doing this, I just don't have all the time that I would like to dedicate to this at the moment, and I thought I was going with the quick and temporary option, but this might have ended up being the crash and burn failure option from what's been stated here. I guess I'll cross my fingers. Thank you all for the help, and if you ever need help growing cannabis, I would be happy to give some advice
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spacechildo
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Registered: 01/24/13
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anything besides PF-tek needs a PC. for pf-tek checkout www.mushroomvideos.com dont mix up pf-tek and grains to bulk teks. 2 very different things. !
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partyboy420247
Tiny Shroom

Registered: 08/05/16
Posts: 102
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: First time grow in spawn bags [Re: spacechildo]
#23518846 - 08/07/16 12:54 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Alright. I've been reading the basics more. I'm at the part with the agar. I'm still very amateur, and I wouldn't know if I could pull it off at my current experience level, but I'm going to try it after the spawn bag experiment is over so it has my full attention, for the best chance of success. My environment isn't laboratory clean, I have to admit, so I would really like to learn a method that isn't going to screw up at the slightest bit of contamination. Also, I'm having problems regulating temperature in my small apartment. I'm not able to get the bags to between 70-75F, and I can only get them to 80F with a fan blowing into the cardboard box that they're in. I suppose that I could turn my air conditioner to a lower temperature than 70, that I currently have it set at, but then I would be afraid of the temperature getting too low for them. I think I've just had one epic screw-up after another, and I've ended up ruining these bags. I should have just started on my own instead of trusting this company for help. And in case anyone was wondering, I never did get a response to my request for instructions that were supposed to be included in the box. The only help that I have received is from the wonderful people on The Shroomery forums, and I didn't even have to pay you guys. You probably see a sucker like me on here at least once a day, but once I learn, I'll try to return the favor to many more noobs like me
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partyboy420247
Tiny Shroom

Registered: 08/05/16
Posts: 102
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Well, I have good news. Despite my low experience and poor handling of sanitation, all four of my spawn bags are showing white patches that look like the ones on the website that I bought my stuff from. This will give me motivation for my next project, getting a pf tek setup going. Thank you all for your contributions to my post, I guess that it's true that everyone has to start somewhere
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