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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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the Decline of the American middle-class
    #23514104 - 08/05/16 07:49 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

One of the most damaging aspects of the super-concentration of wealth and power by the "masters of mankind" is the disintegration of the middle-class.  It is now becoming much more difficult for millions of younger people to earn a decent living.  The very socioeconomic fabric of society is decaying rapidly.  There has been and will continue to be a severe erosion of economic and professional opportunity.

Do you feel that this is a trend that can be slowed, or reversed?  Or is our course set for the twenty-first century?


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InvisibleKhancious
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Re: the Decline of the American middle-class [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23514126 - 08/05/16 07:59 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

The medieval ages all over again with surfdom and feudalistic hierarchies?
Sure does seem like ever since I began to see the interplay in suburban and urban colonies.

One can dwell or attempt to recreate the system for the global good, or just live the life you would like to, day by day, outside the confines.
This only means in harmony with the animal and plant kingdom, and outside of the conceptual sapien way of life and order.

:excuseme:


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: the Decline of the American middle-class [Re: DividedQuantum] * 1
    #23514494 - 08/05/16 10:01 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I see the question was about the USA, but I feel its all connected

first look at this page of images

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=photographs+skyscrapers%2C+megacities+&qs=n&form=QBIR&pq=photographs+skyscrapers%2C+megacities+&sc=0-23&sp=-1&sk=

then check out this list of 35 megacities starting with: Tokyo at 38 million to Rhine-Ruhr 11 million population.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megacity

“The term "megacity" entered common use in the late 19th or early 20th centuries, one of the earliest documented uses being by the University of Texas in 1904. Initially the United Nations used the term to describe cities of 8 million or more inhabitants, but now uses the threshold of 10 million.
In 1800, only 3% of the world's population lived in cities, a figure that rose to 47% by the end of the twentieth century. In 1950, there were 83 cities with populations exceeding one million; by 2007, this number had risen to 468. The UN forecasts that today's urban population of 3.2 billion will rise to nearly 5 billion by 2030, when three out of five people will live in cities. “

also for a more comprehensive list:
The 100 Largest Cities in The World
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1581557

- - -so how can one say anything reasonable?

- - -many of these people live with slums, homelessness, air pollution, crime, noise, traffic congestion, and now random terror, and much ugliness.

They (when three out of five people will live in cities) are also totally dependent on much (perhaps precarious) technology such as for example: the electric grid, trash removal, affordable oil prices, daily transport of food from great distances, internet, security of an internet money system, snow removal, & flood control. Furthermore some are in earthquake zones (California), or near nuclear power plants, or both. And some are near volcanoes (Washington state).

Both Detroit and New Orleans in the USA "the greatest country" have never fully recovered. In one case economic disaster, and in the other poor planing and environmental factors. It remains to be seen what happens to Flint Michigan. There was also a recent water pollution disaster in the southeast. And the infrastructure, much of it from the time of the hoover dam ages while they play gridlock in Washington DC.

- - -so how can one say anything reasonable? when the situation seems totally out of control ? and we also have rising sea levels, and rising temperatures … and many wars … and government corruption

- - - I know this wasn't exactly the question, but to me, it seems money by itself is no longer any guarantee of quality of life, although certainly it often helps.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: the Decline of the American middle-class [Re: laughingdog] * 1
    #23515438 - 08/06/16 09:26 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Meanwhile, the engine fueling this whole debacle is the fabrication of wants.  As long as people are distracted by their i-phones and Hollywood gossip and new Chevy truck, they don't have the time or inclination to reflect on their economic situation or how their situation pertains to the big picture.  Society is decaying for various reasons, but most people seem perfectly happy to help it along.


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: the Decline of the American middle-class [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23515592 - 08/06/16 10:10 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
As long as people are distracted by their i-phones and Hollywood gossip and new Chevy truck, they don't have the time or inclination to reflect on their economic situation or how their situation pertains to the big picture.



This is the root of the issue at hand IMO. I'm surrounded by the most ridiculous excess on a daily basis here, and have in fact fallen victim to it myself too.

One of the mantras in my life right now is to try to never give in to such excess again.


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Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: the Decline of the American middle-class [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23515628 - 08/06/16 10:27 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Yes, it's very hard -- crass commercialism and consumerism constitute the air we breathe in Western countries.  No one is really free from the corporate stranglehold on the economy.  The only thing one can do is to be content to have and to be a little bit less in such a huge, sprawling world.


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InvisiblePenelope_Tree
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Re: the Decline of the American middle-class [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23516219 - 08/06/16 02:54 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Saw this illustration and it made me think of this thread





Our society in the West really does favor those with money. Cars are an expensive commodity. It's not a surprise. I mean, when you live in an economy that's goal is money driven, what else should we expect? The government is considering selling off OUR public lands in order to pay off debts. That land isn't even theirs to sell. If that doesn't provide stark examples of what is valued in the eyes of those with governing power, then IDK what does.

I read a good few blogs that tell you ways to drop out of the rat race as soon as possible, with practical examples like cutting living expenses and configuring how much money you will actually need to retire. The nail in the coffin is that you gotta have some, unless you find another way out...


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: the Decline of the American middle-class [Re: Penelope_Tree]
    #23516466 - 08/06/16 04:49 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

That reminds me of the Bill Hicks line:  "It's all about money, not freedom, ya’ll, okay? Nothing to do with fuckin’ freedom. If you think you’re free, try going somewhere without fucking money, okay?"

Yeah, the danger of the sale of public lands is very real.  Just goes to show how little policy often has to do with the democratic popular will.

In the end, it seems impossible to me to really extricate oneself from this system.  I think it's just impossible to accomplish on every level, even in principle. 

The almighty dollar is all powerful.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: the Decline of the American middle-class [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23519151 - 08/07/16 02:24 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I thought I might learn something about how the middle class has become a charity case


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: the Decline of the American middle-class [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23519245 - 08/07/16 03:06 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Well I think that money is only funneling upward.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: the Decline of the American middle-class [Re: DividedQuantum] * 2
    #23519262 - 08/07/16 03:14 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
That reminds me of the Bill Hicks line:  "It's all about money, not freedom, ya’ll, okay? Nothing to do with fuckin’ freedom. If you think you’re free, try going somewhere without fucking money, okay?"





No it's more serious than that.

When the air becomes poisonous, even money is no help. It just happened in China. It was in the news for months, people had to stay inside. Mexico City and LA have been  famous for health damaging smog for how long? 1 or 2 decades perhaps?  And how many of the mega cities also have this problem? So when 3/5ths of the world's population is in these cities (by 2030 & after that - how many?), and there are billions more people than now - what happens?

Politicians and media want us to believe, there are smaller solvable problems, that legislation, money, and technology can solve, and that there a few external enemies to blame for it all. I doubt that is the case. I suspect air quality is only one of a number of such issues.

Whether the earth's magnetic field will continue weakening and the possible consequences of that, are a concern, but are an unknown. In Contrast to that, the issues of population, pollution, environmental degradation and loss of quality of life, for the majority of people - who will be in the cities shortly, is not so much of an unknown.

Meanwhile, Climate change, nuclear arsenals, new viruses, antibiotic resistance,  oil spills, acidification of oceans, control of media by a few corporations, an aging population on more prescription drugs that end up in the water supply and then fish (because sewage treatment works at the size scale of bacteria, & not at the nanoscale molecules that are the chemicals in drugs), - oil spills from freight trains and fracking (with more earthquakes in say Oklahoma and accompanying water pollution from fracking), depleting of the ancient underground water reserves by agriculture, in I think California, Texas, & the midwest, aging nuclear power plants, pesticide resistant insect pests, to name some other issues I can think of at the moment (although there many more), all add up, to something that is not solvable.

It seems to me a sane informed person, would no longer want children. But, it seems to me  humans are actually hormonally driven, and their conscious minds fool them into thinking they can outwit their genes with ‘birth control’. (I know they say population is going down in some areas.) But the statistics on the mega cities seem to me, to tell a different story.

And more speculative and in the near future: spread of RFID chips into humans, and expanded data base on everyone by NSA & google & a medical DNA data base on everyone in the US.

Not open to question is that: we are the largest arms supplier to the world.
That weapons manufacturers profit no matter who is at war. That illegal and /or secret weapons deals are made by all governments, and by definitely illegal weapons traffickers, who add to the profits of the manufacturers. That both political parties will never mention this. That both political parties want to beef up the military and it’s budget. That remote assassination by drone, is just the first step in the robotization of war. That meanwhile land mines continue to maim people including women and children in areas that are no longer war zones. (Quite possibly  the people who control the drones in the Near East from computer bunkers in the USA, learned this type of eye-hand / “joy” stick -monitor coordination from playing violent video games.) 

It is an urban myth that one can boil a frog in a pot of water, if one incrementally raises the temperature. (A health animal will hop out if gets uncomfortable); but as a metaphor, perhaps, it describes people rather well, as their instincts seem quite easy to pervert and subvert. The case of the rise of diabetes in synchrony with the rise of junk food demonstrates this rather nicely. The USA has now exported this health problem to other countries, along with other culturally undesirable factors of the US lifestyle.

So in summary, it seems even Bill Hicks, with his line:  "It's all about money” … was fooled by the myth of the consumer society. All the real issues are much deeper.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: the Decline of the American middle-class [Re: laughingdog]
    #23519285 - 08/07/16 03:26 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Well I agree with you, and I think you've hit the nail on the head.  Bringing up the Hicks quote was more to address a specific point P_T made, but yes it is much deeper and, as you say, insoluble at this point.  The point of no return was decades ago.  The time to deal with climate change was decades ago.  Meanwhile, both Russia and the U.S. are re-upping their nuclear arsenals with new technology for a slew of new weapons for the stockpiles.  Talk about the wrong direction.  Obama spearheaded that.  Moreover, Obama has been very helpful to the arms manufacturers, in his policy regarding them specifically, through the budget, and by involving us in numerous conflicts with no forseeable resolution.

I agree that all this is quite insoluble at this point.  Maybe this will end with a bang, but more likely a whimper.


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: the Decline of the American middle-class [Re: laughingdog]
    #23519298 - 08/07/16 03:33 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

:thumbup:

most of us, to some degree, are psychologically ill.  this is not inclusive of "mental illness" but culturally conditioned illness.  a portion of this running program is an inherent denial that any of this is detrimental, because the illness is so heavily enforced (indoctrination) and reinforced throughout life


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: the Decline of the American middle-class [Re: demiu5]
    #23519308 - 08/07/16 03:35 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I am of the opinion that most if not all domesticated creatures are neurotic to some degree.  As soon as our species became sedentary, it shut off a crucial part of us, and nominal function of the system was the main casualty.


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: the Decline of the American middle-class [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23519318 - 08/07/16 03:41 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
I am of the opinion that most if not all domesticated creatures are neurotic to some degree.





i'm of the opinion that any animal affected by our mass expansion/destruction of environment is likely neurotic to some degree



Quote:

As soon as our species became sedentary, it shut off a crucial part of us, and nominal function of the system was the main casualty.





what do you mean by "nominal function" of the system?


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: the Decline of the American middle-class [Re: demiu5]
    #23519329 - 08/07/16 03:45 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

demiu5 said:
what do you mean by "nominal function" of the system?




The health of the system: one's body and mind, the organism.  It could also mean the socioeconomic system as well, come to think of it.


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: the Decline of the American middle-class [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23519386 - 08/07/16 04:08 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

thanks.  i agree with that statement as well


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: the Decline of the American middle-class [Re: demiu5]
    #23519462 - 08/07/16 04:44 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Agreed since hunter gatherer days much has been lost. Not just exercise, but a whole slew of ways in which 'nature' supported and regulated us. Our cleverness has proved a poor substitute for 'nature'.

also:

Its not just the USA, consider:
The poaching of the last few rhinoceroses alive for the supposed medical value of the horn, funded by Chinese.
The coming extinction of sharks, for shark fin soup funded by Chinese.
The illegal whaling by Japan (under the guise of science) and murder of intelligent dolphins by them.
As well as world wide over fishing.

Like the wolves, sharks are a top predator, and when a top predator disappears, it seems the entire related ecology suffers. So this factor is another attack on the whole ocean along with, the warming, chemical and plastic pollution and acidification. One can only wonder where/when the tipping point is for those who are dependent on the sea for food.

Brazil and Indonesia both are implicated in rainforest destruction. In Indonesia cheap palm oil has become a source of income. Brazil has both so much poverty and government corruption any hope of curtailing Rain forest destruction (the lungs of the planet?) seems impossible.

some links re: top predators and environmental health 

http://www.livescience.com/9716-loss-top-predators-causing-ecosystems-collapse.html

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=top+predators+and+environmental+health&t=h_&ia=web

https://hmdecozine.com/2012/11/01/predators-and-ecosystem-health/


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: the Decline of the American middle-class [Re: laughingdog]
    #23519483 - 08/07/16 04:51 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

https://www.worldwildlife.org/threats/overfishing

More than 85 percent of the world's fisheries have been pushed to or beyond their biological limits and are in need of strict management plans to restore them. Several important commercial fish populations (such as Atlantic bluefin tuna) have declined to the point where their survival as a species is threatened. Target fishing of top predators, such as tuna and groupers, is changing marine communities, which lead to an abundance of smaller marine species, such as sardines and anchovies.


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: the Decline of the American middle-class [Re: laughingdog]
    #23519603 - 08/07/16 05:32 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Klamath Salmon


you mention South American rainforests, but the rainforests of the PNW (specifically CA) are being decimated on a similar scale.  further, N.CA/OR rainforests sequester more carbon than those of the Amazon


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