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InvisibleThe Phleg
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Boosting pin formation with low RH? * 1
    #23513720 - 08/05/16 06:08 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I've been reading around the forum that evaporation of water from the cakes mycelium surface initiates pin formation. Less evaporation takes place when RH is kept near 50-85%. Would it be possible to get more pins to form if cakes are thrown into a low RH environment for a few hours, maybe even a full day, then put into a high RH environment throughout the rest of the flush?


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Edited by The Phleg (08/05/16 06:20 PM)


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Boosting pin formation with low RH? [Re: The Phleg]
    #23513749 - 08/05/16 06:13 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

that's why cakes go into a properly built SGFC the RH is between 50-80% for evaporation and the fluctuation is good.


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InvisibleThe Phleg
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Re: Boosting pin formation with low RH? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23513772 - 08/05/16 06:21 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Edited the the high RH range in the OP.


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Re: Boosting pin formation with low RH? [Re: The Phleg]
    #23513778 - 08/05/16 06:22 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Fruiting Chamber
A SGFC has 1/4" holes spaces 2 inches apart in a grid patten on all six sides. 4-6 inches of moist perlite. No attachments made to it with any extra things like humidifiers. Optimally the SGFC should be in the middle of a room. No fans should be run in the room with the SGFC, but a cracked window is OK. A humidifier in your house can help to raise the ambient RH but don't put it near your SGFC put it in the other corner of the room if you do decide to run a humidifier at all. The SGFC IMO should have at least 6-12 inches of room from any wall on all 6 sides. This includes finding some sort of raisers to elevate the SGFC off of the surface it's on.

Misting and Fanning.
In general you'll mist your cakes until they glisten(yes they can even with the verm on them) and then fan right after the mist. You can mist your cakes directly and you should. Also get some mist on the perlite to keep it hydrated. When you notice the cake is no longer glistening you can mist it again and then fan. This occurs on average of 3-5 times a day. Don't worry about sleeping or being gone 12 hours. Just do it when you're around and don't forget about it is all.

Fanning is not FAE it's only purpose is to relive the high RH air so that the cakes can get a kickstart on evaporation.

FAE
This is a phenomenon (Fresh air exchange) in a properly built SGFC this is constantly happening. The perlite is naturally cooler than the surrounding air this moves molecules closer to each other as the lose kinetic energy. This creates low pressure which pulls air up through the bottom holes. As the air moves through the perlite it picks up humidity and keeps the chamber at or above 50-80%RH. This occurs naturally without the fanning and is why we like to have no fans in the room and is also why fanning after misting is not a replacement for FAE. FAE is having your PPM of CO2 below ~600-1000

Quote:

pussyfart said:
Fanning is not a replacement for constant FAE.

You would need to fan several times per hour.




Quote:

The physics of the shotgun terrarium are that evaporation causes a temperature drop, thus the air molecules are closer together.  This results in higher pressure within the air spaces around the perlite.

The substrates and/or lights provide slight heating within the body of the terrarium.  This results in relatively lower pressure.  This low pressure area above the perlite(high pressure) results in airflow to balance the pressure.  This in turn leads to more evaporation from the perlite, continuing the process.  This is why a shotgun terrarium handles FAE automatically.

The CO2 does not settle to the bottom.  In addition, the CO2 from mushrooms is mixed thoroughly into the O2, thus it travels out through the holes in the sides and top as part of the natural circulation.  It doesn't enter the denser air within the perlite and spill out the bottom.
RR




Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Quote:

JayBrasco said:
fewer, you dont want alot of humidity to escape. only enough on the BOTTOM to get rid of CO2




Bad advice.  Fresh air exchange causes a loss of moisture from the cakes or other substrate, and this loss of moisture is the number ONE pinning trigger.  Noobs worry too much about humidity, which is easily corrected with misting.  You MUST mist to make up for the lost moisture.  In the old days, people would toss cakes in a sealed up chamber and hope for a couple of mushrooms before green mold set in.  Today, you can easily get three or four times the harvest the early growers did by using a proper terrarium that provides both fresh air and high humidity.

Furthermore, why you guys think CO2 is heavy like water and will drain out holes in the bottom baffles the mind.  If all the CO2 settled to the bottom, we'd all be dead due to the power plants and cars, cows, etc., that are puking out tons of CO2 by the minute.  The CO2 MIXES with the air and thus must be exchanged WITH the air.  It isn't a sweet little layer on the bottom of your fruiting chambers.

As for only reading 80% humidity in a shotgun terrarium with a humidifier running in the closet, it proves your hygrometer is screwed.  I can put a shotgun terrarium in an open room with the lid totally off and get higher humidity than that.

I seriously doubt anyone has lower humidity than I do.  It's below zero outside and I use a large cast iron wood stove to heat my cabin.  My properly made shotgun terrariums all read 95% or greater.  I keep a cool mist humidifier running near the wood stove, and it's nice and cozy in here, even though there's nearly five feet of snow on the ground outside.
RR




Co2's concentration in "air" is higher at sea level but it's still mixed evenly with the air. Yes gravity does work but it doesn't pull co2 out of the air to make it it's own distinct layer.

even more on the subject

RH
You can't see RH, a SGFC should have no condensation on the walls, Condensation is caused by temperature differentials, if you have condensation you need to fix something. If you want to measure RH the bare minimum in quality for a hygrometer is a analog cigar box one that can be calibrated or a "synthetic hair hygrometer"

Don't get too worried and caught up trying to measure the RH in your SGFC anyway. It's far more important in a green house to measure humidity not so much in your SGFC,

When I put a RH gauge in my SGFC it doesn't read more than 90% all the time, and that's good A-OK just fine, don't worry about it don't measure it, your cakes are going to have a perfect micro-climate if you did the dunk and roll you'll have 99% surface humidity and that's all that matters, FAE is way more important and the RH inside the chamber is just fine for the fruit bodies themselves, if you have low humidity in your home just mist the perlite a bit more often to keep it hydrated it will work just fine and properly if you build it right and follow the damn directions to the T and not try to make your own uneducated guesses as to what improvements you can make. If you must then use the humidifier on the other side of the room or as far away from the SGFC as you can manage.

supplemental info about RH


Pinning triggers debunked
No1 triggers are. full colonization of the substrate and then slow evaporation of moisture off of the substrate. This happens with the interplay between high RH and FAE.

Light doesn't cause side pins in containers. You don't need black tape or black liners. You can use a clear liner as long as it will shrink with your substrate eliminating the space between the substrate and the tub where side pins love to form because of the high humidity microclimate.

Quote:



LIGHT IS NOT THE MAJOR PINNING TRIGGER FOR MUSHROOMS!

As for pinning, full colonization of the substrate is the most important pinning trigger. If there are contaminants present in a substrate, the mushroom mycelium generally stops growing when it contacts them. This represents full colonization because the mycelium has hit a natural barrier, and often pins begin to develop, whether light is present or not.

The second most important pinning trigger is an increase in air exchange, with the corresponding drop in CO2 levels that occurs simultaneously. When you uncover a tray to look at it, you allow the CO2 to escape and be replaced by fresh air. THIS is a pinning trigger, even if you do it in the dark.

Third, which goes along with second, is a steady rate of evaporation of moisture from the substrate or casing layer. In the artifical environment of a small tray, we must mist to keep the substrate or casing from drying out, but we also must allow that moisture to evaporate off between mistings.

Fourth, when the above three triggers are active, light becomes a pinning/growth initiation factor.
RR




Common Misconceptions that new growers always do
Plugging up the holes on your SGFC will LOWER the humidity and give you LESS FAE which means more stale air more bacterial buildup and uglier shrooms.

You can dunk your cakes with pins on them

FAE is not a specific number of FAEs per hour. FAE is keeping your CO2 levels below ~600-1000PPM. Obviously in a huge room with only one small cake you would not need even 1 FAE an hour, In a two liter soda bottle with one cake you would need several FAE per hour to keep your CO2 levels in check.

Lighting requirements of mushrooms

Quote:

PocketRevolution said:
There are two great terrarium designs that the majority of users on this site use.  Monotubs and Shotgun terrariums.  Both these designs have the advantages of having no moving parts, having no need for electricity (+water=danger), and working really well.

I spent a few hundred dollars building a Poor Man's Pod to spec. (PMP is a design similar to what you're describing but using LECA as an evaporative medium).  It did work.  It was also really heavy, and sometimes the water turned a bit skunky, and the bubble wands clogged with red sand.  Eventually it sprung a leak and leaked all over my floor.  Luckily I had kept my power bar off the ground.  Since my tub already had one hole in it I figured drilling more was the way to go, and I converted it into a shotgun terrarium , and I never looked back.




Quote:

MudaFuka said:
I can't even remember what all I wasted my money on for my first grow. I know I spent well over $600 and I don't think I still use half of that shit. Fuck I could have built a flow hood for the cost of all the automated shit I tried to build.




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