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Invisiblemicro
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1,4-BD question
    #23500765 - 08/02/16 06:16 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

So, 1,4-BD has been held up in two circuits as an analog of GHB. One of these cases had extenuating circumstances on the prosecuting side.

It was also made precedent it is not in Chicago Supreme Court.

Is it legal, for non food and drug purposes, to ship it interstate to one of the states in the circuits the Supreme Court upheld it is an analog?

That is, if you are selling it from IL for example.

I guess it would be technically illegal for the buyer to buy it there, but I'd be surprised if anyone knew or even gave a shit.

Thanks in advance!


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: 1,4-BD question [Re: micro]
    #23500853 - 08/02/16 07:05 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Actually, any interstate commerce falls under federal law doesn't it?

I guess it's legal then?

EDIT: I realize why this was a dumb comment


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Edited by micro (08/02/16 07:12 AM)


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: 1,4-BD question [Re: micro]
    #23501052 - 08/02/16 08:30 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Oh, shit. I was looking this up and noticed this from Title 21 chapter 13 USC:

Quote:

(g) Internet sales of date rape drugs
(1) Whoever knowingly uses the Internet to distribute a date rape drug to any person, knowing or with reasonable cause to believe that—
  (A) the drug would be used in the commission of criminal sexual conduct; or
  (B) the person is not an authorized purchaser;
shall be fined under this subchapter or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.
(2) As used in this subsection:
  (A) The term “date rape drug” means—
(i) gamma hydroxybutyric acid (GHB) or any controlled substance analogue of GHB, including gamma butyrolactone (GBL) or 1,4–butanediol;




The way around this would be:

Quote:

(B) The term “authorized purchaser” means any of the following persons, provided such person has acquired the controlled substance in accordance with this chapter:
...

(iii) A person or entity providing documentation that establishes the name, address, and business of the person or entity and which provides a legitimate purpose for using any “date rape drug” for which a prescription is not required.




What the hell is a "date rape drug" anyway?

I mean, a date rape drug would be anything that knocks you out.

I wonder when this got added.

I should update Wikipedia too, since this isn't in there.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: 1,4-BD question [Re: micro]
    #23501938 - 08/02/16 01:39 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I'm not a fan of the legal phrasing "date rape drug". Of course, I'm also not a fan of pretty much any legal phrasing involving drugs, as it is normally grossly inaccurate or grossly extensive. See "bath salts".

In this case, using the phrasing of the law, you could argue that food is a date rape drug in that having dinner with your date may lower inhibitions and then lead to taking advantage of such lowered inhibitions. It's stupidly vague. It doesn't even have to knock you out. A dose of meth or MDMA may keep you fully awake and alert while still compromising your decision making ability to the point of rape.

I'd stay away from any commerce that involves GHB, GBL, or any precursors. Seems like the letter of the law allows punishment in every case, and you never know when you'll get an overzealous prosecutor during an election season.


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Re: 1,4-BD question [Re: Kryptos]
    #23504392 - 08/03/16 03:38 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

If the analog is schedule 4 and below then your good. 3 an above could be persecuted under the federal analog act particularly 1 and 2. I would assume you would have to have a lot to make the case worth while for the feds.


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: 1,4-BD question [Re: tdubz]
    #23504892 - 08/03/16 09:29 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

No, not III. It's schedule I and II only that fall under the Analog Act.

Funny thing is GHB is both schedule I and schedule III, which makes just about as much sense as anything else in the law.

Also, as I pointed out, selling it over the internet is illegal and carries a 20 year sentence.

It was slipped into the same bill that created the sex offender registry back in 2006.


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Edited by micro (08/03/16 09:38 AM)


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: 1,4-BD question [Re: micro]
    #23505777 - 08/03/16 01:47 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

GHB scheduling is dumb. As in, everything is schedule I, except for a specific preparation of the sodium salt, which is Schedule III and prescribed commonly for narcolepsy under the brand name Xyrem. I knew a girl who had a legal prescription for NaGHB.

As with most laws that are related to drugs and...kind of dumb, from a chemical perspective, I would err on the side of caution.


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Invisibletdubz
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Re: 1,4-BD question [Re: micro]
    #23505884 - 08/03/16 02:11 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

You are asking if shipping a scheduled 1 analog drug is legal? Am I correct? Over state lines? Well than you answered the question in your second post.


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: 1,4-BD question [Re: tdubz]
    #23505973 - 08/03/16 02:35 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
GHB scheduling is dumb. As in, everything is schedule I, except for a specific preparation of the sodium salt, which is Schedule III and prescribed commonly for narcolepsy under the brand name Xyrem. I knew a girl who had a legal prescription for NaGHB.

As with most laws that are related to drugs and...kind of dumb, from a chemical perspective, I would err on the side of caution.




Lol, yeah. Like I said, it's weird.

In the law it says sodium oxybate is schedule III and GHB is schedule I.

What is this I don't even

Quote:

tdubz said:
You are asking if shipping a scheduled 1 analog drug is legal? Am I correct? Over state lines? Well than you answered the question in your second post.




No. You didn't read the OP at all did you?

It was ruled by the Supreme Court in Chicago is is *not* an analog.

Here precedent hasn't been set at all.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: 1,4-BD question [Re: micro]
    #23506081 - 08/03/16 03:06 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I think any first year Chem student would (correctly) call NaGHB (xyrem) a schedule I analog, because...it just is. It's literally the same exact drug with a slightly different counter ion. The effects are the same, the only difference is dosage and nutritional intake.

But, for some reason, NaGHB is schedule III while any other GHB preparation is schedule I. I blame ignorant lawmakers, though what else is new. Modern politics is a full-time career, as opposed to the historic ideal of common farmer turned president out of necessity. Again, err on the side of caution because that is how you stay out of prison.


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: 1,4-BD question [Re: Kryptos]
    #23507223 - 08/03/16 07:56 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
I think any first year Chem student would (correctly) call NaGHB (xyrem) a schedule I analog, because...it just is. It's literally the same exact drug with a slightly different counter ion. The effects are the same, the only difference is dosage and nutritional intake.

But, for some reason, NaGHB is schedule III while any other GHB preparation is schedule I. I blame ignorant lawmakers, though what else is new. Modern politics is a full-time career, as opposed to the historic ideal of common farmer turned president out of necessity. Again, err on the side of caution because that is how you stay out of prison.




It's pretty much spread throughout law that different salts should be treated the same.

It's talking about the drug, the salt is just the form it's in.

The reason it is schedule III is NaGHB is sodium oxybate which is prescribed.

But again, I don't think it really makes a difference one way or the other.

The fact that one drug is in two different schedules is just... Well, there is no fucking explanation.

It should never be tried as a Schedule I in law but watch out because there are laws specifically for this substance.


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