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OfflineLucisM
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Giving up the fetter of sensuous desire. * 2
    #23497713 - 08/01/16 07:05 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Anyone done this?

I think I might be able to overcome all sexual desire in my life and not go crazy, seriously.  When I was younger sex was more of a priority, which now it's not, I only want to understand myself and those around me better, but I see peoples drive for sexual union to be overrated.  Even when I was younger, sex was not a huge deal for me.

There are other, more mysterious things out there which pique my curiosities more, things tethered to the world of spirituality, mysticism, religion, faith, and the natural world.  I would be happy laying under the banyan tree and contemplating the mysteries of life the rest of my days.


Anyway, I was reading about fetters in Buddhism, really interesting stuff, this got me thinking about breaking free of the fetter of sensuous desire, and how much that would benefit me.  I know this is not a popular opinion, so please be respectful of this thread, no snide remarks please.


I understand people wanting to have a family, but sex as a pleasure alone doesn't seem necessary, and usually leads to heartache of some sort if done just for the pleasure side of things because we usually form an attachment of some sort to the person we have sexual encounters with thanks to hormones like oxytocin, as well as human nature.  Then if we grow apart from the person we're intimately connected with, we judge ourselves, often very harshly, some people never get free from the judgements they make about themselves, doesn't seem healthy.  Seems like it's the minority of people that can casually have sexual encounters without any attachments at all.

I am sure I didn't cover all the bases there, thoughts?


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InvisibleKush_Zombie
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Re: Giving up the fetter of sensuous desire. [Re: Lucis] * 1
    #23497856 - 08/01/16 08:41 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I feel that my past sensual experiences have made me a much better and stronger person. I feel that it's through those mistakes that I've learned to make an effort to let go of attachment.
I agree that it's overrated in our society, but I personally wouldn't want to give up all sexual desire. I'm in a spot right now where I don't make an attempt to find a partner or even a casual fling, I just keep my eye out for someone I can relate to intellectually...which unfortunately is very uncommon for me.

I'm extremely picky about who I choose to get in a relationship with and am too paranoid of STD's and getting someone pregnant to just mess with anyone who's willing to give it up. When my desires get the best of me, I masturbate and can leave myself satisfied enough to not let it bother me.

I am also one of the people that forms attachments, even from casual flings, and it's in those attachments that I realized what it is I really want and learned to let go of what I was attached to with logical reasoning. I learned to build myself up and get my own self worth, to set my own standards, and to make myself a rare "catch".

I definitely believe attachment is unhealthy. There's a quote I heard once that says "The root of all suffering is attachment." and I find that to be very true. I believe sexual desires themselves are very healthy, but I think those desires become too much of a priority for most people and the result is cruel and devastating most of the time. I think too many people are looking for sex simply to fill the physical void they feel and it does nothing but harm for the mental void they feel because they don't think about what they actually want in a partner and instead they make it into a contest based on what they've heard throughout their whole life in the western society, which is essentially, to fuck and get money.

However, I can't say that going without sexual desires would be unhealthy. I believe it would definitely be healthier than having sexual desires with no purpose. It's definitely an interesting thought.


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OfflineMushroomBilly
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Re: Giving up the fetter of sensuous desire. [Re: Kush_Zombie]
    #23498437 - 08/01/16 01:47 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Kush_Zombie said:

I definitely believe attachment is unhealthy. There's a quote I heard once that says "The root of all suffering is attachment." and I find that to be very true.




Is it not better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all?

I absolutely love sex and am very, very sexually minded! All of my trips have an erotic theme and every now and then I spend hours writhing in orgasmic energy whilst stimulating my prostate - can't think of anything better in this life!

I think the thing is to be yourself - if this is you then explore it. If it's not then don't. Each to their own - nobody is right or wrong.

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InvisibleKush_Zombie
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Re: Giving up the fetter of sensuous desire. [Re: MushroomBilly]
    #23498439 - 08/01/16 01:48 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Why did you quote me? When did I say you shouldn't love?


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How to get started in bulk:
Presto 23-Quart Pressure Cooker
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How EvilMushroom666 Prepares His Grains (I use jars with Synthetic Filter Discs)
What is G2G? (Grain-to-Grain)
Damion5050's Coir Tek (I use 5.5 - 6 quarts of water instead of 4. Also ignore step 13 and ignore the monotub completely. The only purpose of this tek is to show you how to make a simple substrate. I also add gypsum to it but not necessary)
Spitball's Monotub Tek (A liner isn't necessary but is useful)
Use 6500k lights throughout the whole process. When you wake up, turn the light on. When you go to sleep turn the light off. It's as simple as that.

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OfflineUniversaleyeni
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Re: Giving up the fetter of sensuous desire. [Re: Lucis]
    #23498702 - 08/01/16 03:20 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Ram Dass once said "what good is a horny celibate?" :lol:

Do you feel like its the desire itself that will hold you back? Or the pending chase/hunt for sex?

I think the desire is healthy and natural, but becoming obsessed with the whole scene is where the fuck up is. Can we balance?

When i was a teen through like 23 i was on the prowl. What a trip. I :facepalm: the old me, but then again how would i be present me without the past experiences? Now when something yummy passes by, i admire, and then "i have to turn my head until my darkness goes", never denying the yummyness or the instincts, just not being a dousche about it.

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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Giving up the fetter of sensuous desire. [Re: Lucis]
    #23501297 - 08/02/16 10:04 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I find your post very interesting.  Of course many religious and spiritual traditions, including the Buddhists you mention, practice the transmutation of the social-sexual circuit through celibacy and sexual chastity, which is typically reinforced by some type of meditation.  Traditional Tibetan Buddhist monasteries practice this form of social asceticism.  The idea, of course, being -- as in the spirit of your post -- that if this neurological circuit is transcended, one sees it as it is -- merely another barrier to liberation.  Freedom for some people lies in the absence of servitude to this circuit (or if you prefer, set of behaviors).


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OfflineLRG
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Re: Giving up the fetter of sensuous desire. [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23501376 - 08/02/16 10:33 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I too think sex is not that important part of life. Merely a vessel for us to show affection and create our own happiness through our own children. Far too often you are not with the person you should be with. Not a fan of fate, but I do believe there is one person out there for everyone. Finding that person is an important part of life. Sex with that person completes the ever present uroboric symbol and the completion of male and female halves.

Personally, sensuous desire does not stop with sex. You need to go the full mile and be deaf, dumb, castrated, and blind. It seems more like a chickenshit move to just practice it. Please don't rip out your eyes, tongue, balls, and ears. That's not what I'm saying, just my opinion. Also on the other end we were given these senses to experience our world. We should cherish these gifts not throw them away.


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OfflineMushroomBilly
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Re: Giving up the fetter of sensuous desire. [Re: Kush_Zombie]
    #23501505 - 08/02/16 11:20 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Kush_Zombie said:
Why did you quote me? When did I say you shouldn't love?




No no, I wasn't referring to love in particular, I was making the point that for some, becoming attached and experiencing something only for it to go wrong is still better than never having experienced it at all. So the suffering is worth it, to some extent.

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InvisibleKush_Zombie
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Re: Giving up the fetter of sensuous desire. [Re: MushroomBilly]
    #23501513 - 08/02/16 11:22 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomBilly said:
Quote:

Kush_Zombie said:
Why did you quote me? When did I say you shouldn't love?




No no, I wasn't referring to love in particular, I was making the point that for some, becoming attached and experiencing something only for it to go wrong is still better than never having experienced it at all. So the suffering is worth it, to some extent.




Very true, but it's still the root of the suffering.


--------------------
How to get started in bulk:
Presto 23-Quart Pressure Cooker
BOD's Simple as FUCK Still Air Box
PastyWhyte's Easy Agar Tek
Munchauzen's Cultivation Video Series
How EvilMushroom666 Prepares His Grains (I use jars with Synthetic Filter Discs)
What is G2G? (Grain-to-Grain)
Damion5050's Coir Tek (I use 5.5 - 6 quarts of water instead of 4. Also ignore step 13 and ignore the monotub completely. The only purpose of this tek is to show you how to make a simple substrate. I also add gypsum to it but not necessary)
Spitball's Monotub Tek (A liner isn't necessary but is useful)
Use 6500k lights throughout the whole process. When you wake up, turn the light on. When you go to sleep turn the light off. It's as simple as that.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleBuckthorn
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Re: Giving up the fetter of sensuous desire. [Re: Kush_Zombie]
    #23502591 - 08/02/16 05:06 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Sensuality is key to sacral health, the orange emotional waters but I fail every time I spill my sacred semen

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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: Giving up the fetter of sensuous desire. [Re: Lucis]
    #23502637 - 08/02/16 05:22 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I'm like sexually bipolar. There are times when my whole life is dominated by sex, and then there are whole months that go by where I don't even think about it 99% of the time.

It's actually super hard on my girlfriends because I go through these periods where I just don't put out at all, and then through these periods where all I want to do is fuck everything that walks, threesomes, foursomes, orgies, etc.

During the times when I'm "off" if you will, I'm probably one of the least sexual people I know, and then it really seems crazy to me how much EVERYTHING in society is based on sex.

But then after a while my mood flips again and it all makes sense and it's orgy time :awesomenod:

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OfflinePeyote Road
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Re: Giving up the fetter of sensuous desire. [Re: nooneman]
    #23503049 - 08/02/16 07:11 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

its much better to free of desire than ever desiring in my experience, so i say go for it you can.

i have an unhealthy relationship with sexual desire, where i formed an attachment to masturbation/sexual fantasy as a method to cope with stress and depression. attempts to free myself have all resulted in failure.


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: Giving up the fetter of sensuous desire. [Re: Peyote Road]
    #23503150 - 08/02/16 07:43 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I don't think there's anything wrong with sex or no sex. Whatever floats your boat, you know?

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OfflineMushroomBilly
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Re: Giving up the fetter of sensuous desire. [Re: Buckthorn] * 1
    #23505258 - 08/03/16 11:35 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)


Quote:

Foamy said:
Sensuality is key to sacral health, the orange emotional waters but I fail every time I spill my sacred semen




I feel like after a while the energy gets blocked and it needs to be released - it will come back, in time, like a rhythm if I learn the tune ... There is such a thing as draining, there's also such a thing as hoarding- neither are balanced and everything is energy transfer - to and fro creating the circle (sphere) of life

Edited by MushroomBilly (08/03/16 02:01 PM)

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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Giving up the fetter of sensuous desire. [Re: Lucis]
    #23509460 - 08/04/16 12:38 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Fennario said:
Anyway, I was reading about fetters in Buddhism, really interesting stuff, this got me thinking about breaking free of the fetter of sensuous desire, and how much that would benefit me.  I know this is not a popular opinion, so please be respectful of this thread, no snide remarks please.



I'm really glad you brought this topic up Fennario; this is very much the path I am on right now and where I have been for about the past six months. The first table on the Wiki link has really helped put into perspective why I have felt this way.

I've been an enormously sexual being since the first time I fell into a long term relationship with a very sexually compatible partner at 18 (my earlier experiences were fun, but lacked any real connection). Once I got a feel for what could be found in exploring the sexual realms, I went a bit mad for it throughout my 20's, eventually culminating in finding my first experience of true love, in which the sexual act felt like a holy union. It really blew me away.

Having since lost that person to addiction, I again spent some time exploring others and found all the experiences, whilst extremely pleasurable, extremely lacklustre in terms of what I know is achievable through sex. And the sacrifices (in terms of distraction from self, and my path) were too great to stay with it.

As such, I have since committed to celibacy for the first time in my life. It started as a six month commitment, but I now feel it will likely extend for a much longer period of time, quite possibly until I achieve freedom from such desire (i.e. the state of 'non-returner' in the table I mentioned earlier). I've been semi-consciously aware of that being my current goal for some time now.

What's been most difficult for me is being in central London on a daily basis, surrounded by huge numbers of young, attractive, available women. Being the extremely visual and sexual creature I am, I find myself often distracted. Luckily I have learned not to beat myself up for feeling this way, but it is a HUGE distraction none the less.

Mind you, I've plans to extricate myself to a farm in the middle of nowhere in Australia come the end of the year, which should provide me the freedom, abundance of time, and lack of distraction to cement this state into my life.

If you're committed to this path also, I'd love to stay in touch and share experiences along the way.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
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OfflineLucisM
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Re: Giving up the fetter of sensuous desire. [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 1
    #23515344 - 08/06/16 08:31 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
If you're committed to this path also, I'd love to stay in touch and share experiences along the way.




:thumbup:



My current mindset wants to see how far I can go without this attachment, so my curiosity is enough to motivated me to give this a go.  I wonder how it might change my perspective on life, how I will channel that energy into other things.


I think being in a relationship for as long as I was is another reason I want to try this for a bit.  I was in a relationship with a girl for a decade, as we got older we separated because we grew apart, and wanted different things out of life.  During that period I had plenty of sex, she was willing to do just about anything as far as sexual things go, so I had a good run during that point in my life.  I think that by abstaining from sex for a bit, will make my next relationship much stronger, if I choose to get into one, but it's not a priority for me at the moment.


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Invisibleonce in a lifetime
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Re: Giving up the fetter of sensuous desire. [Re: Lucis]
    #23594814 - 08/30/16 06:43 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

very nice thread. . . all the replies &c.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Giving up the fetter of sensuous desire. [Re: Lucis]
    #23597541 - 08/31/16 01:35 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I struggled with celibacy during the most turbulent years of my life, during a period of time in America when the 'sexual revolution' was on - birth control pills, AIDS was unknown, Herpes wasn't even spoken about and Methaquaalone drugs were still legal and abundant ("leg-spreaders"). After falling in love for the first time with a girl who broke my heart (and who went on to a life as a sex-worker in one capacity or another), I shunned women and even took myself to a Christian seminary for a couple of years (a compromise, instead of becoming a novitiate as a Catholic monk)! I completed seminary in 1978 at the age of 25 and went off to graduate school at 26 where I met my first wife and married upon graduation at age 29. I took my marriage seriously in a Christian idiom, even if my ex-wife did not. I remained faithful trough all kinds of temptations including a house of strippers who moved in next door, sometimes beckoning me to come over and fix something, while going about topless in the back yard. I am reminded of Siegfried and the Rhine maidens in Wagner's opera The Ring of the Nibeung. :lol: I could resist desirable therapy clients not only because I was married, but because I'd lose my professional license if discovered.

So, marriage contained my sexual desires, and still does. But at age 63 my desire has fallen way off and ED has reared its ugly head. My wife is still very attractive and still has an hour-glass figure, so that is not the issue. However, while there is affection, kissing, playfulness and teasing, regular relations have diminished (I remember 'hitting it' 6-7 times in one night, once-upon-a-time!). This will happen with most men as they age (particularly if Sildenafil is ineffective). If the desire is still strong, but performance is greatly diminished, one will be most unhappy. But if the two are fairly matched, one enters into a whole new phase of life more easily. Now, instead of passing out after sex, we take leave of the TV in the den and go off to different rooms to read until the wee hours of the morning before we sleep. We are both now in our 7th decade of life.

You should note that some of Buddhism is Theravadin and as such is aimed at the life of monks. Mahayanists and Vajrayanists often marry, and presumably they have relations until the desires wane from natural causes. Christianity doesn't reject sexuality except among Catholic monastics. Eastern Orthodox  priests can marry and only higher ranking churchmen remain unwed. Martin Luther left monasticism to begin the Protestant Reformation, and he wrote about getting with his wife when he was feeling like he needed some loving, so Protestantism has never rejected sexuality.

A spiritual or philosophical lifestyle by its very nature requires that emphasis not be placed on a life dedicated to sensuous pleasures (a life of the senses )with sensual (sexual) pleasure and gustatory (gluttony) being the most obvious prohibitions.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Giving up the fetter of sensuous desire. [Re: Lucis]
    #23605880 - 09/02/16 07:32 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Fennario said:
Anyone done this?

I think I might be able to overcome all sexual desire in my life and not go crazy, seriously. 




Well when fasting in my youth I experienced liberation from lust, which is how most men partially evaluate all women (ie potential partner - or not ... & women surely same instinctual program).

When in the grip of the program, contemplating pleasure seems pleasurable. When free of it, it is seen to be habitual and not actually free.

When not fasting, the body has more protein and hormones, and the old way kick in again. Supposedly Taoists have ways to re-channel the energy.

Many so called enlightened 'gurus' 'masters' etc. have eventually been revealed to have been taking advantage of disciples, so it is apparently easier in theory than practice ...

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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Giving up the fetter of sensuous desire. [Re: laughingdog] * 1
    #23646223 - 09/15/16 12:00 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

there is no absolute errors in life, but there are morals and laws.

sex is not an error. like Divided Quantum said; it (that kind of realization that one wishes to meditate and/or become chaste) is a method to realize liberation, to realize where the fetter's key lays, and that's in detachment. to realize that you are already liberated, you do not need to worry about sexual imprisonment. if not, you are most likely already either abusing some sense of law/justice and/or moral dignity.

the problem is not having sex, or even having too much sex, but it can be attributed to having the wrong kind or wrong amount, in general, of sex. that's general rule...some people may choose to go chaste, for the reasons that they can't control themselves, or they wish to embrace a religiousness that tends to something incompatible with sex...though, of course, this is a choice...not an error.

immoral and unlawful things cannot be done with impunity...but that's a matter of choice. if one can realize this, they are unfettered already.

if one can choose to be chaste and focus solely on meditation and living without attachment, then you can achieve a state of enlightenment, which is liberation from suffering. to be motivated to leave this world in that state of mind is freeing, but depending on your spiritual beliefs, it may not be necessary. the only way it's necessary is if you want to leave existence entirely, and/or as an entrance into other mystic spaces of meditation to seek the Godhead (to transmutate)...there are different beliefs on which of the two is more-or-less better for one's self.

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